And an important note here because it gets latched onto a lot:
There is a lot of difference between there being a meta choice that’s generally better and there being a meta choice that’s so much better at basically everything. Darktide is the latter. That is a huge part of the issue. Nobody reasonable expects them to ‘fix’ the idea of a meta weapon.
If every weapon was roughly meant to be balanced around a generic “100%” power level, right now there’s a few weapons below 90%, the bulk around 90-110%, and then a few massive outliers sitting out at 140%.
Spoilers: You reign in the few on both ends to fit that rough 90-110%, not buff everything to the broken outliers.
That in conjunction with what you mentioned in terms of weapon niches (the above is a very simplified example), on top of the issues with the massive outliers, the aforementioned things like dueling sword then also step on the toes of things like the Thunder Hammer due to how easily it deals with carapace as well. Part of balancing keeps variety in the game in general.
And like you said, it doesn’t magically stop random teammates from picking them and then facerolling the map.
This just isn’t true. Basically all weapons have upsides and downsides and meta comes from the fact that either some upsides are very valuable or downsides/middling use can either be worked around or non-consequential.
Plasma together with Revolver are the best quick-draw anti special/elite weapon. This is one of the most valuable thing currently for a ranged weapon for a hybrid/melee build in the current very fast paced environment.
The fact that they have low ammo and ammo efficiency is drawback, but since you can pair them with a melee build and use them sparingly you can work around it.
The fact that they aren’t good for killing ranged chaff due to ammo issues is again worked around by using it with a proper melee build.
Dueling sword and Knife is this from the other direction. They can deal with enemies quickly, they are mobile, but they aren’t as good against hordes as Claw, Heavy Sword, or Evis.
Does it matter? No because horde is basically a non-threat in the game and they are just good enough.
I could go on on how different weapons get overvalued due to being good as generalist or specialist while other stuff can get worked around. For example how great a combo is Zealot with Bolter+HS+Throwing knives (and was even before the bolter buff).
Maybe get out of your comfort zone for this one. There are several wildly different builds that can just face-roll content to more or less the same degree. Some builds need a lot more time to get good at, but they aren’t really weaker and maybe even stronger than what people call out to be the most OP currently.
On a side note there are some problems. High mobility invulnerability being one, but in general weapon balance never been closer in the game’s lifetime.
You can disable all talents.
Use grey weapons with bad modifiers.
Equip curios with non combat stats.
I know that it is not the same as it would be, if you were using a built that you optimized yourself, and then got a challenging piece of concent.
But it is a way to increase the challenge of everything that the game provides.
Of all the text I posted in the great textwalls in this thread, why cut out the surrounding context on this point to disagree when we’re not actually disagreeing here?
“My honest reaction” was that I’ve seen the OP raise a load of threads just since October asking how to stat-build different weapons(123456etc. ), to the point where I couldn’t tell if they were just resource scraping for a PS5 guide, or hadn’t played in a long time. Then came across this too
at which point I thought it ironic that they started this topic.
Anyway. Some weapons need a “nerf”.
If someone said to you we’re bringing out a level 10 competition map. You get one go at it, and if you complete the level you get £1000. The two weapons you pick I’m going to say are likely OP. People know it, even if they don’t want to admit it in case it gets changed.
Making everything “better” is an obvious fallacy. Some weapons just need to come down a notch or two; be that damage, cleave, speed, dodges, whatever. They just do; otherwise the other weapons become pretty redundant outside of some kind of gaming cosplay.
You keep posting that as if you ‘got me’ or something when i have clearly stated multiple times that i’ve come back after a years hiatus after they finally allowed weapon crafting. I also have 330 hours in game and play monstly on normal Damnation and sometimes on Auric when i need the penances. Do you require screenshots?
This will literally be the case forever because people follow the path of least resistance every time. You nerf something, something else becomes meta, and on and on. Whats your point? Make everything so bad that its just a sea of garbage that cant kill anything unless you spreadsheet muh breakpoints while using three different websites? How fun. Also some weapons should be OP. Powerswords, Bolters, Plasmas etc are the pinnacle of human weaponry and should be the golden standard. What do you want? A bolter that cant kill anything? That you’ll need to empty 3 mags into the belly of a Bulwark so YOU feel its not OP now?
No, the only fallacy here is that we need to nerf everything fun some kind of gaming cosplay." because people with too many hours feel BORED. You’re not the average player. You beat the game. Congratulations. Has grass been touched lately?
No, they dont.
No, they really dont.
Other weapons need to reach the general vicinity of the good weapons. Thats it. also i know its news to you, but people play other weapons for variety. Now i understand your confusion, you only play to win MUH auric damnation MaElStrOM and thus you need to use meta weapons literally all the time, which leads to you getting bored, which leads you inadvertently to scream to Fatshark to solve your problem for you and nerf said meta weapon so you might actually get to play with something else.
Once again you’re not the majority. If fatshark wants this game to thrive we need content and we need buffs. Granted, not always vertical but at least horizontal, like for example i want my Eviscerator to cut the majority of chaff in half. It feels awesome
You’ve just made a load of incorrect assumptions about me, which if you just search some recent posts of mine will show you that you’re wrong, and I don’t only play AM:
BTW - this is a crap, lazy argument (which I’m not actually sure makes sense), and not what I said:
I said some weapons are clearly OP and need knocking down a notch or two to be more inline with others. Your argument seems to be that everything should be buffed to be equally “great”. I think that’s a ridiculous argument as then the top level becomes trivial to even more people. You can achieve “equally great” weapons by reducing the effectiveness of some , and then as a bonus the top level is not trivialised.
And of course I try lots of weapons. There’s no way the “all rounders” are equal, and those with the niche roles often not even that special in their principal role.
I cannot argue with you there. Read that as you will.
Well: because the core game still exists for people who might still want to play that and not always see team mates with the same combos? But yes, I take your point. No-one is advocating sweeping changes anyway so it doesn’t mean that some weapons can’t be adjusted at the same time.
Here’s an argument: your personal, subjective experience, is called anecdotal evidence and should not be used to make sweeping changes.
And remember, the person making the claim has the burden of proof. So next time, please make sure you post a decent sample size (at least 10 games should do) with exact builds and setups to show how a specific weapon is performing above the mean.
Otherwise, your strawman argument about people who say it’s a PvE game and it doesn’t matter (it is and it doesn’t) are just as justified as you. That which can be presented with no evidence can be rebuted with no evidence.
Actively encouraging trolling your team is one of the dumbest responses you can make in terms of making the game more challenging. If you’re at the point of saying people need to actively not use the stuff you get from the game then that’s a problem.
And I say this as someone who has done true solo stuff in a lot of these types of games in general. That’s not a solution, don’t pretend it is.
I could also play using my feet, that’s not a reasonable expectation to have. Sure would make it more challenging though!
I suggest that you actually read the posts that you respond to.
Preferably before responding to them.
Yeah… But i did not encourage anyone to do this in public lobbies, or in general.
I just pointed out that it could be done as a way to make the game more challenging, since you claimed that there is no way.
Not necessarily. In any game, where player skill plays a major role, there is only so much that you can do in regard to difficulty, before you make something unbeatable for 99% or so of the playerbase.
If you really seek out a challenge, you should play in private lobbies with other players who have the same goal as you.
In that case, there is no problem with the team members choosing certain limitations for their loadouts, in order to make the game more difficult.
The deliberate use of sub optimal loadouts is a pretty common choice for challenge runs in many games.
Did you not read what i wrote?
I did not pretend that it is a solution at all.
I simply pointed out that it is a possible way to increase the challenge (which you claimed was impossible). Although it might not be the type of challenge that you want.
Out of curiosity, do you conversely believe playing on malice is a good solution for people who think the game is currently too hard?
I asked this before I saw that you mentioned the caveat how it’s not the exact same thing as getting harder content with optimized builds and was going to draw a comparison with that, so I agree on the same principle
Yes.
That is what difficulty levels are there for.
They are there for players with different skill levels to have an option that is appropriate for them.
This goes from basically 0 skill up to a certain amount of skill.
The only problem is, that there is basically no way to cater to the few no-lifers, who want more and more difficulty, because they keep getting better at the game.
While the general playerbase stays around the same skill level, those no-lifers slowly keep climbing.
So unless FS add the option to stack infinite modifiers for private lobbies, these people should probably play private lobbies with smaller teams and/or with crippled builds, if they want more of a challenge.
But yes, I take your point. No-one is advocating sweeping changes anyway so it doesn’t mean that some weapons can’t be adjusted at the same time.