Common Strawhat W
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Going to try to collate the early yelling about Havoc mode, but admittedly I haven’t played V2 and have no idea what the ‘weaves’ they’re yelling about are, because I could’ve sworn that had been a good thing that’d been brought up in the context of itemization a bunch.
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The only good thing was the athanor, which was a seperate weapon system that basically functioned like the current crafting system.
At the end of the day it was still useless, as you couldn’t use those weapons in regular maps. The entire thing was a seperated content island which took the hardest difficulty hostage.
Winds of Magic and weaves was the closest Vermintide 2 came to dieing in terms of player count
A few of the negatives:
- weaves were smaller missions that had to be unlocked in sequence
- it started off with the easiest and got harder with each level. making you grind to play the difficulty you wanted
- if a player had unlocked a higher weave they could take you along
- it MASSIVELY fractured the playerbase because of all the different weave levels
- it had no quickplay
- closed off content island which gave you no equipment for the main game, neither could any of your actual equipment be used in weaves
- it featured a scoreboard no one asked for
- it had fccking SEASONS
- locked hardest difficulty behind the dlc
A few of those negatives don’t apply to havoc but the basic principle is still terrible. It fosters toxicity due to decaying progress and the 3 failure rule, while at the same time trivializing the reward for completing the hardest ones as you can be just pulled up by higher tier players, despite not having done all previous tiers, etc.
It’s not just a monkey paw answer to “we want to chose the maps and modifiers we can play”, it also boosts up the only criticism, namely fracturing the playerbase further, MASSIVELY. Not to mention they haven’t even learned from any of the issues i.e. lack of quickplay.
The entire party finder thing now also makes sense. It’s their answer to a problem they themselves created with the basic concept of havoc. It’s just terribly thought out in general.
All we want is more maps and player agency. Not this RNG ladder bs.
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people are just too way impatient when the game mode havoc is not even released yet.
to me it honestly looks promising minus few things, like being only on party finder, and some unfun special condition, like lights out and so on.
but people are just making assumptions and comparing them something like the weaves in vt2 too way directly, when it will be sure different.
weaves in vt2 was a fine game mode, because of the extra challenge and the ability to go cata 3 and beyond in official realm. it wasn’t popular nor received very well because the DLC “Winds of Magic” had the difficulty Cataclysm (damnation) behind a paywall, in the dlc itself.
also people did not like that you had to grind again from scratch (you had to farm again cause it wasn’t using your current equipment from campaign/adventure)
but i doubt we will have to farm everything back in havoc mode…
so it will be fine.
also another major complaint of people not liking weaves, was because they were very hard.
(lot of people gave up, because not skilled, couldn’t complete them all, so everyone deemed it was a “bad game mode”, when in reality it was fine and nice, pushing the challenge to extreme and something fun to do with friends) i completed the last season all 160 ranked weaves. and the rewards behind like portrait were also a nice achievement because of the challenge behind. that not many people have it.
if anything i hope to see havoc rewards like that but i doubt.
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Alright, collected the first wave of Havoc threads, and did some re-organizing. Added this to the feedback/comms section.
*UPDATE 2: As of November, we’re kinda back on our bs - Fatshark seems to have learned nothing from previous games and dropped a teaser for a game mode highly-similar to the nearly-universally-hated ‘Weaves’ system from Vermintide 2. The outcry was quite loud (multiple links). This does not seem to reflect internalizing feedback at all - though Strawhat is doing their best to collect information.
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You do know they have posted a dev blog posting how it works what it is and what the rewards and requisites are? it was that information that caused the posts.
- it forces group finder. - that kills it for me alone. nobody wants to use party finder so lets smack in end game in that requires it. do i really have to wait to see that car crash?
- It only exists for those clearing damnation auric now. what % of the playerbase will this even benifit? 5 maybe 10?
- the design has conflict built in , the host risking his m+ key sorry havoc mission wont want to go with those under levelled and as its so clearly incentivised its going to be flooded with those not suitable to it. then those who can do have no reason to once they have. can you picture the chat drama were going to have on final day as people scramble to get thier keys “dont group with xxx they messed up my key!!!”
- its a huge fracturing of the playerbase.
- it is to my mind a boring and bad answer to how to supply difficulty post damnation. the auric conditions have largely not been very popular i see people looking for just two histg and … the other one. doubling down on that and just augmenting it with generic -toughness and +damge mods is frankly lazy. and we already know its not fun. gettign one shot bya bullet sponge is always fun and engaging amirite?
- as you can shortcut to the end it removes all satisfaction from doing it , it incentivise carries and begging . it punishes those playing.
- now is the time to give feedback before the time is invested and the path set, if you wait till after its the house is built you might be able to repaint he wall and plant some flowers but that house is built.
- it is weaves again we have been here before, people to this day are still running chaos wastes , sitting in the weave que? that gives prayer a run for wait time.
i love this game its been my fave since launch, this looks like a terrible miss step to me.
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which is still bad to assume things on paper imo, it is always better to wait and see how it actually is, and potentially improved with feedback if needed. i also don’t agree in few things too, as said before being tied to party finder, and some special conditions not being very fun like lights out, and perhaps tox gas as well.
in my opinion, people run more adventure/campaign than CW to be fair
weaves is not popular but also because it is often a content you do only with friends, or forming group in advance because how challenging it is, that’s why may it gives the feeling it is not that played… but then you see the leaderboard and see how many people have played it, which is a lot.
CW was fun imo before the boons getting nerfed and overhauled, but it’s subjective, i also personally don’t like having perks randomized… nor doing a session of 1 hour because in CW most of the time is about 1hr or so. because a long game mode. meanwhile weaves, they are very hard, they take few tries perhaps, but one weave can be done in 20-30mins usually and it’s fun
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Yeah, although we are a particularly speculative playerbase 
I’m more of a ‘wait & see’, but the fact that it would be better for everyone if maps & modifiers could simply be selected rankles a bit.
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thanks for catching it. I am mystified at how blind Fatshark can be to player feedback and even their own financial data. Winds of Magic was panned and has mostly negative reviews on Steam. Even the most cynical, profit-driven, player-hating business person would not say “let’s repeat that in Darktide”. Somebody at Fatshark is pushing things through despite other employee’s protests, I’d bet. Maybe somebody who helped achieve initial successes and built up a sort of untouchability.
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that for sure, even though it shouldn’t be tied to party finder only the ability to select map/condition. mission board as well should have that. so there must be some sort of rework. but i agree that party finder as first step should have freedom of choosing map and condition, considering it is some sort of private-public lobby. and they should add more tags.
fires up the Book again
This one’s getting a pile because WOW is the new Commodore rotation hot garbage.
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Well, the promotional images have been fixed.
When I was looking at these on Tuesday I read the lore snippets and how each weapon skin was associated with a particular map. Obviously intended as map specific penance rewards for Havoc I thought.
My theory is that they were created as part of a larger set of rewards for Havoc but a decision was made to change direction with havoc rewards which left them with a batch of morbid looking guns to sell on. Plus dev costs have probably accumulated and need to be recouped asap.
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Totally agree…
I have said it several times.
Same about shotgun shells… there’s a problem in seeing that boltgun is the one that use the biggest ammos and that you can carry more ammos than a revolver or a shotgun.
am i missing something that’s only clear to Warhammer fans, or are the cosmetics in Darktide generally underwhelming and barely noticeably different? since the beginning ive been waiting for some exciting cosmetics to drop. not a unique problem to this game, i have the same issue in Vermintide, and plenty of games just sell recolors/textures instead of new 3d models cuz it’s far more cost-efficient to produce. but even the recolors are just so subtle i can’t imagine spending money on them. maybe i need to be really familiar with the tabletop stuff to get excited for a grey jacket vs a mustard yellow jacket or slight recolors of weapon paint
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You’re missing nothing.
The recolors are depressing, most of what’s on offer is boring, and the few bits that are interesting have been subjected to price raises over time.
This is a system for whales and seeks to exploit FOMO via a rotating store.
There’s a reason that the single largest section in the Book is ‘this store is c*ncerous and I won’t buy things from it’.
(also, of all the words to censor, Fatshark?)
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Just wanted to remind Fatshark that I would have spent more money on cosmetics but you went and did a FOMO thing didn’t you Fatshark? Now I literally can’t even give you the money I was going to 
what a shame- almost makes me not want to get the few things I did want because of how insulting an obviously predatory this decision was. Makes u thunk how many others feel that way. doesn’t it FS marketing department?
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My main personal grudge with the MTX is the funny money layer. Not ‘predatory’ my rectum.
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it’s incredibly transparently predatory but they’ll do it so long as whales exist to buy everything.
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I aint paying a single more cent for models and designs that are so shitty that they look like someone made them after a traumatic brain injury and one youtube blender tutorial.
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Well that’s just mean 
I don’t think the 3d assets in Darktide are poorly done. They just don’t seem to have much creative freedom to do anything that doesn’t abide strictly by the tabletop guidelines. But in tabletop, half the fun is kit-bashing and painting things however you like, so abiding strictly by the rules isn’t even truly realistic!
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