Witch hunter captain needs 125hp too

100% crit for 8s. Yeah, give that 3 minutes with the option to reduce it down to 2 minutes.
+20% crit for 6s. 3 minutes are not justified.
2 minutes is okay, may be reduced to 1:20 or changing the talent completely:
The less enemies are hit by animosity the shorter is the cooldown. Like if you use it on 10+ (or 0) enemies you have the full 2m cd while with only 1 affected enemy it gets down to 30s.

I also can imagine altering Animosity further: affects only a 120° cone, enemies are staggered and slightly pushed back (like a push block) and not knocked down. The affected enemies gain 20% more damage from all sources. 30s cd.
Instead of a talent for shorter cd you may get the 360° effect. But that’s only wishlisting.

I hate the knockdown effect. I only have 6s to maximize my damage output but i pushed the enemies away (first second lost), they are spread out (less hits per cleave) and i have to sort out the already dead ones from the only knocked down ones at a glance (empty hits).

WHC is a fine example of what is “wrong” with current class balance and why low HP may not have been an issue in VT1 but are in this game. Folks always proclamining “hurr durr you’re not supposed to get hit” are talking out of their arses, I have yet to see a video of someone who manages to pull that of. I know that WHC is supposed to be some kind of CC character with mobility and somewhat good special killing, but he IS a melee character and probably the squishiest of them all. Again, it boils down to: you can play him, but why would you want to? Okay, his killing power is maybe a tad bit better than, say, FK Kruber or IB Bardin, but these two have very good CC options and elite killing power also with their two-handed weapons, and not only a HUGE health pool but also damage reduction up the wazoo. I know from 1st hand experience that you can make WHC work on legend and he performs quite okay, but everytime I played him, you know, doing the witch-hunter dodge-dance and taking great care of not getting hit, I was thinking “I could play FK Kruber now, do the exact same thing and not have to worry about eating the occasional stray hit, as my temp HP I get from slaying this horde is more than enough to compensate.” Best evidence to this is that there’s soooo much discussion about how to make carreers like WHC or Battle Wizard Legend viable, you never see talk about how to make FK or IB viable, because they just are. You can always argue about skill ceilings and skill floors and whatnot, but the only time I ever thought WHC was handy if there were many elites and I thought “man, his passive +20% from tagging would be kinda neat”. His active is completely forgetable with its ridicilous cooldown and laughable effect, he has no special weapon selection, his “kill on crit headshot” shtick never seems noticable as with right equipment, most stuff dies in one or two hits anyways and since it is crit-headshots you are looking for, you can’t even rely on it. He has no armour, abyssmally little HP, no real way to boost his ranged other than getting more ammo (and not getting the increased dodge distance which imho is essential for not getting hit), and Salty’s melee weapon selection is arguably the worst in the game, maybe on par with Sienna’s. When you run with grims (which I don’t do anymore since there’s no point), you’re pretty much forced to run with curse resistance to get MAYBE enough HP to withstand a second blow.

The whole thing with “low hp/armour” carreers needs to be reconsidered. I mean, Ranger Vet Bardin is surprisingly squishy (which he shouldn’t be imho), but he has really good ranged weapons (realistically, it’s grudge-raker or gtho) and can make almost any melee weapon work (one handed hammer and axe are very good in his hands), he can obliterate anything from afar and pick of leftovers relatively easy in melee. Same goes for battle wizard, she is as squishy as WHC but has at least a mobility skill that allows her to escape and her CC is actually pretty good, even though I am very vocal about her passive needing some rework to be on par with Pyro or Unchained.

tl;dr: WHC has no role he can fill, any CC you might want to do can be done alot better by zealot, any elite and special killing alot better by BH. He may do a little bit of anything, but his low health-pool and quirky, unreliable abilities just make him a really bad choice. Only saving grace is the extra tag damage.



Its ALSO an example of why the melee weapon Nerfs ONLY hurt WHC and Zealot… ie… the ones that never needed any Nerfing.

The Falchion nerf was a good example. That ONLY affects Zealot and WHC… becuase the Bounty Hunter Kills Elites with Ranged combat… so in essence ALL they did with any melee weapon nerf was make the Bounty Hunter STRONGER… and the other two Weaker.

Sometimes the decisions that are made have me wondering if Fat Shark is smoking Crack.

The Nerf to the Ult for WHC was one of those… the same HP as Bounty Hunter is another. The Rapier Alt-Fire Nerf was another since this was supposed to be the Signature Weapon of the WHC. The Accidental Nerf of the Axe’s cleave in 1.05 hurt both Zealot and WHC…

The Weapon nerfs need to be reversed… As does a the Ult Nerf, and lower health.

If Fat Shark needs to Nerf any given Saltzpyre job… then those need to be pointed a the Bounty Hunter… not WHC OR Zealot.

Because neither the Zealot NOR WHC are overpowererd in any way shape or form. If anything its the opposite.

I don’t know who up there is making the decisions about the Saltzpyre jobs… but whoever they are… They’re not very good at it.

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There is more of course… obviously the Ult for WHC needs a rethink, and the lower health needs to be re-thought…

And a total reversal of the previous weapon nerfs… due to this little circle jerk with hosed up the balance between ALL of Saltzpyres melee weapons when it was very good originally in Beta.

I suppose I should repost this which is from another thread… to give a little more detail on how it came about

You know I should probably give you an idea of just how far this circle jerk goes and how this chain reaction hosed up the Balance of ALL the Saltzpyre melee weapons and where it comes into play.

We’ll start with Step 1.

Step 1. The Alt Fire Rapier pistol nerf…
Back in Beta the Rapier’s Alt Fire Pistol actually did full damage out to about where the Brace of Pistols did. It wasn’t really a problem either. Mostly because of how clunky the thing is to use. So you missed a lot at any type of medium range… still anything within about 10-15 yards you could hit and kill.

One problem… The Bounty Hunter’s passive…
The Alt-Fire Pistol is counted as a Melee Kill… not a ranged kill.
(Previously this weapon was not usable by the Zealot, and may not have been by BH either. I don’t remember whether it was or not)
So… the Bounty Hunter could reset their Crit Passive at range just by killing something with the Alt-Fire Pistol… and then instantly have their Crit back. Which was not intended since it was supposed to be a Melee kill to do it with.

So they nerfed it so it only did max damage out to where it is now… so it couldn’t really kill anything at Range anymore… (which is stupid given that it has a 2-3 second reset on it so you’re not going to run around racking up massive ranged kills with it no matter what).

Rather than, you know be smart like… Make it a WHC weapon ONLY …or locking out the Alt-Fire portion on BH…
…or you know… making the pistol shot count as ranged damage so it didn’t DO that. Which would have been the smart play.

Instead they took out this HUGE balance factor of the Rapier vs Falchion out of the equation.
(vs Two handed sword eventually)

So now its just clunky, pointless, and little more than a gimmick.

Step 2. Patch 1.05 Accidental Nerf.
Patch 1.05 was indeed necessary. They had miscalculated the Hero Power threshhold so all weapons were >doing more stagger, cleave, and damage than they were supposed to be doing… and Half the jobs in the >game relied on the intended Power level… or their passives and skills would have no actual effect on the >game. So half the jobs in the game became useless until they fixed the power level to be where it was >intended

Unfortunate Side Effect: The Axe which never had much cleave in the first place, and only provided minimal horde clearing ability… lost ALL of it. So whenever you used the Axe… it would get you killed in a Horde.

So as to where there used to be a smooth transition between the Axe, Rapier, and Falchion with regards to their capabilities (Horde Clearing vs Armor Piercing vs Shield Users vs Elites)… The chain was broken, because the Axe no longer provide even the minimal horde support it used to… leaving only the Rapier and Falchion as survivable weapons in a horde and breaking the smooth transition between them all.

Step 3. The Two Handed Sword Buffs…
Greatly increased the viability of the Two handed Sword… one problem… They forgot to increase the Reach… so it was STILL the same reach as the Falchion and less Reach than the Rapier. So all those improvements were for nothing. Since the Falchion had similar cleave and stagger and was much faster. So it made a better Two handed Sword than the actual 2 handed Sword.

Problem number 1… This of course made the Falchion seem like it COULD do anything and was better at everything than every other weapon… (See Step 1, and Step 2… to see why this magically and mysteriously poofed into existence… and wouldn’t be a problem had those two things never happened)

Problem number 2… IF they actually DID increase the Reach… the Two Hander would FAR overshadow the Rapier’s main job as a Horde Clearing Weapon. BUT… that wouldn’t be a problem had they not NERFED the Alt Fire Pistol Shot in the first place as that would still be a balance factor for the Rapier and no one would care.

So even if the Rapier had lost its Primary Spot at Horde Clearing to the Two Handed Sword… It still could kill targets at Range where none of the other weapons could. Hence Fat Shark COULD extend the Reach of the Two hander to be longer than the Rapier… and not the idiotic reach of a dinky little Short Sword (Falchion).

(And likely Kruber’s would give the Halberd a run for its money too)

Step 5: The Falchion Nerf…
…and the last straw that finally broke the back of the Melee Weapons. With the only weapon that HADN’T been Nerfed left… of course its able to do everything. QUICK NERF THAT TOO… Its UNbalanced…

Oh wait… its really not.

The ONLY reason the Falchion looked that was was because of… Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, and Step 4, which lead to Step 5.


We come to the end of this big Circle Jerk…

At this point the ONLY way for Fat Shark to fix all this… is to GO BACK and Remove ALL the previous nerfs that were either intentional due to bad decision making… or accidental due to the necessities of the Patch.

Because right now the Balance between the Weapons which Started out really good…

Is now in the Tank…

EDIT: They basically screwed themselves because they had the right balance from the beginning… and then screwed it all up.]

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