Witch Hunter Captain ideas

WHC can work pretty well on Legend, but he is extremely dependend on equipment and his overall playstyle only allows for very little margin of error. I’d classify him as “High Risk - Mediocre Reward”. I dabbled with both maxing attack speed with swift slaying and with CD reduction, and in my oppinion, going with time extension on his active and swift slaying seems to be the best option. The CD on his active is too long to consistently rely on it being usable more than once a wave, and I regularly have it ready without any real reason to use it, so I use it as a clutch-ability or the cover a flank by myself. WHC definitely has the best horde-clearing ability of any melee-carreer in the game and imho, stacking anything but crit power or power vs. monsters on him is a waste. With rapier and stacked out crit chance, swift slaying and bonus headshot damage, you can absolutely rely on your light attack flailing to decap almost any mook up to chaos marauders. Anything not hit in the head gets wrecked by your extra crit-damage and with a good volley x-bow, you can put out decent boss dps and actually use your 10 seconds of ultra-crits to become sort of an off-boss-killer on anything other than the troll, though I run him with a regular crossbow for even better CC.

My personal gripe with him is that I rarely use him off-host, since you are soooooo dependend on not getting hit because of your abysmally small health pool. His “no block stamina on light attacks from the front” is absolutely forgettable since the angle seems to be about the same as that of shade’s backstab, nothing you can rely on and gimmicky at best.

That’s the whole problem. You look at his abilities and say “wow, he’s got some really good stuff”, but half of it is unreliable and a gimmick at best and you pretty much have to commit to a certain talent setup because without your extra-dodge distance, you are absolutely cat food.

WHC is not far off from being where he needs to be in order to truly compete with Salty’s other two carreers, which are, by and large, on the same level (Zealot could use some tweaking imho, but that’s another topic):

  1. 25 more health to be not so squishy anymore. He is designed as a melee character, he is wearing chainmail armour, he should be a little tankier.
  2. Tweak his active skill. It needs both its cooldown looked at as well as its effect. Maybe the 100% crits from beta were too much, but for what it does now, even if it affects the whole team, it seems underwhelming considering you cannot exactly spam it. My suggestion would be to both reduce the CD and give it more offensive power. Maybe also increase Crit Power by another flat 20% while it is on.
  3. Give him the extra dodge distance by default, replace lvl 5 talent with something else. Honestly, this should be the case with most carreers where only one talent path makes the difference between “Legend viable” and “not worth your time and effort”. When it seems a carreer only becomes viable with a certain talent setup, the carreer should have those abilities by default in order to allow a more varied playstyle. A CC with as little defense as WHC has, he needs to be able to dodge.
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Imagine an automatic ping of the highest health target, within a certain range, with a distinctive outline color? Maybe a 2nd could be tagged as well with the regular default blue outline. Just a thought. His ult DEFINITELY needs a cooldown reduction tho imo

It does sound nice, but ideally I think WHC should just do more dmg to specials without having to ping
I mean he is a witch hunter, it makes sense to me, especially against leeches and blightstormers

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Well, the main issue with the ping debuff on specials and elites is that 1) your teammates might not ping them, even though they benefit from it and 2) said specials and elites tend to die fast enough anyway, so the ping doesn’t really provide much help. The ping only provides a constant group-level support when it’s a prolonged boss-fight.

The constant pinging of every taggable mob for buff is the most annoying mechanic in the game.

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I went through all of this… including the overnerfing that happened both to the WHC… and by extension nerfs to the weapons which had in reality destroyed the job.

Basically in order to correct this job at this point they’d need to go back and remove all the prior nerfs to both the WHC and the weapons.

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They should just make this passive. All taggable enemies take extra damage.

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Try setting the level 25 talent to 10sec duration to give it an actual use when things go haywire. Get a crit built and ult cooldown on crit trait.
Works pretty decent on rapier.

I find the tagging nature of hes abilities and the class in general to be little bit, lets just say unreliable.
Not to mention the cooldown on hes ultimate is simply too long for what it gives. Yeah guaranteed crits on beta was maybe little bit over tuned but i really think the ability itself should have longer base duration or lower cooldown.

After seeing how shade, a squishy melee class that deals high melee damage, has become a very reliable pick and overall a very good example how to make this melee focused game more melee focused, we should take this experience and model other melee classes in her wake. I’m dead honest, Shade should be the blueprint: Melee with her feels powerful, engaging, exciting, you need to work for it, you are always on your toes not to get hit - which actually WORKS -, she has a powerful and VERY versatile active that allows her to play aggressively but also as a last resort retreat or utility option to either reposition, escape or even help downed teammates, it can be used as an impromptu CC option for her weapons that are not too good at it, she has a very good and versatile selection of melee weapons that allow for alot of different playstyles and almost all of her talents are valid picks and she can be tailored towards almost any job - boss killer, elite killer, survivability, ranged support - without commitment making you worthless in the other areas. And most importantly: An active ability you are encouraged to use, to experiment with and that isn’t on cooldown 50% of the map, even though it is very powerful. THIS is how you make this game more melee focused, not by nerfing and tweaking ranged characters, but to give melee characters this kind of variety and viability.
Anyhow, enough of my raging e-boner about Shade’s design, and back to how we can transfer that to WHC, sinc he KINDA does fall into the same role as shade: squishy but mobile melee character that has a certain default role but can KINDA cover anything a little bit. Difference is that his role isn’t boss killing but CC with good-ish elite killing power. Problem is that he just isn’t as geared towards this as shade both ability and talent-wise as well as when it comes to equipment. I mean, you can absolutely make him work on Legend, but as I’ve said, he is kinda “high-risk, medicore reward”, since he doesn’t have the same versatility as shade, his abilities are unreliable AND when picking Salty, he has to compete with two of the strongest carreers currently in game, BH and Zealot. He somewhere falls in between those two without having the damage potential of BH or the CC and survivability of Zealot.

The real offender here is mainly his talent setup and his active, as has been pointed out ad nauseum. There isn’t really much choice you get, you need that dodge distance and don’t get me started with “killing tagged enemies heals 2 temp hp on team”. Talent reworks, however, take much more time than what I have in mind. His active should be on the same power level as Shade’s and even though it can affect the whole team, it is sub-par at best and sits on a cooldown that is by no means justified considering the effect.
So, how about something unconventional here and apart from reducing the cooldown a bit, we make it that it gives Salty, and only him, 100% crit chance on melee attacks for the 6 seconds it lasts AND somehow make it that any “man-sized” enemy cannot get aggro on him because they are too stunned by his zeal.

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I completely agree with you, I’m only adding a random thought. When thinking about the WHC, I always think of the glasscannon builds from WoW. Very squishy, relies heavily on CC to make it out of the danger zone, but in exchange for all this effort, he has a high damage output. Except, he doesn’t.

Maybe turn him into an inverse Shade, he does backstab damage, but only from the front. Call it… “Frontstab!”

(Disclaimer: I’m just kidding, please don’t hate me, WHC needs to be buffed somehow to offput the squishyness.)

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Are you running Deathknell or Abjure Temptation? Deathknell seems optimal, but I’d love some Crit Power or extra Crit Chance instead.

It feels like a lot of cooldown reduction, which takes away damage in other areas. Also Stam + Crit seems really necessary on Rapier for the push-attack spam. Losing out on the attack speed increase doesn’t feel great either. It all adds up.

The headshots on CW with Rapier feel like a nightmare. Can be right over their head and it won’t count. Feels the same with some other enemies too.

His level 15 talents seem WAY too short.

Bit of a more serious suggestion that just came to mind. Since the WHC is supposed to dodge a lot (assuming from his lvl5 talents), why not give him something related to that? For example, the first attack after a dodge have an increased crit chance (8% maybe?), which would make all that fancy-fencing make it worthwhile. I know it’s a blasphemy to suggest talent synergies, but this would definitely enforce the whole hit-dodge-hit mechanic of the WHC.

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That’s actually one of the cooler suggestions I’ve read. Even if it wouldn’t be 100% practical in most situations it would be quite fun still.

IMO the most simple fixes would be a cooldown reduction on his ult and his Elite killing buff having a longer duration. It would make him more than viable without making him too strong.

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I’d like to see a shorter CD combined with more stun/knockdown (incl. vs bosses) and for his attacks to gain additional stagger for the duration of the ult.

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Deathknell. I changed lately from Resourceful Combatant to Swift Slaying and my Trinket 10% Cd / 5% Crit to 5% Crit/Movement it feels more of an fluid art to fight with a bit of extra Speed over all, like you mentoned.

Stamina-plus on any Weapon with the Captain would be a waste, Push-Attack spam against a wave, or any other Enemies besides a groups of 4-6 Skaven/Barbarians, is not a good idea even if you on the move, the Push-Attack creates an opening in your Defense allowing a hit or more to get through, i rather throw a Push on its own a Dodge back and start swinging again at the same time.

Headshots on CW are nearly impossible if your to near, keep your distancen and take advantage of your full Range.

In general WHC Ult is not as bad as often said but It does not reflect the Character of a Witcherhunter, the Skill Tree´s and Ult´s are anyway all the same but thats an different Topic.

Edit: Abjure Temptation would be interesting to know how the Dmg compared to Deathknell is.

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I don’t play OW but I think an ult similar to McCree’s would have better fit the character: go into quick auto-headshot spam mode just like Saltz does in the intro to VT1. It could be easily balanced relative to, say, Trueflight Volley, fill a similar role in trash removal, and have penetration to compensate for the fact it’d have to be LoS only. Personally, I feel like that sort of thing would be a lot more fun than a lil 360 stagger and a short crit buff.

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+1 agree
I need this in my life

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Depends which weapon tbh. Push-attack 3 combo is really strong for the Rapier. With the attack speed you can use the spam attack on heads.

It worked quite decently, but I think even with all that cooldown reduction it was a bit slow. He only needs a slight buff imo. Nothing drastic.

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