In that case, why do you misrepresent the arguments for a rework?
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Which arguments am I misrepresenting?
If you’re going to quote me from other threads, I’ll tell you now to link the posts. I need to know the context in which the quote was made.
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Let me point out just a few:
This is not a matter of necessity. Nobody ever said that it is.
It is a matter of what feels good.
You already said that “half” was an exaggeration.
Thing is, that almost nothing has actually changed in the past year or so.
I hereby invite you to point out and dismantle those “outdated” arguments.
Those are not the reasons for people to want a rework.
You are deliberately painting those in favor of a rework in a bad picture by listing a bunch if irrelevant things.
As i said before, you are implying guilt by association.
People do not generally demand that the system be done away with completely.
No it is not.
Not at all.
Also, you saying “good rolls” does not really mean anything. It is so vague, that you can shift your definition to what ever fits in the moment.
You are handwaving away the arguments by simply saying “it is outdated”.
I read all announcements and other dev posts, so i think that i am pretty up to date.
Again, please inform me about what FS actually wanted with it. By providing citations.
Also in this regard: What FS originally said about what they want with the crafting system, was something that players liked.
Then they delivered something completely different, that is not liked all that much.
It is fine to change your vision, if your vision is something that people hate.
But it is moronic to change your beloved vision in order to create something worse instead.
If you have enough people, there will be some who will speak fondly of anything.
Some people literally like to eat human excrement.
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This is not an argument against a rework. This is an argument against a specific type of rework.
Here’s two.
December 2022
It has been said to me in the memorial that people don’t want to put in a determined amount of time. Someone had even used my (at the time of writing) 1800 hours as the standard to get the perfect weapons, which first implies I have a perfect weapon; I don’t. Someone has said there shouldn’t be any locks on the weapons at all. Someone has said they want the perfect weapon for breakpoints and can’t get it.
Those are not mischaracterizations.
Handouts? That’s a gross-blanket characterization for all of it which is a fair point in mischaracterization as it does in fact misrepresent the other arguments before it.
I’m glad you’re here talking to me about this claim of guilt by association and I’m happy to clear it up. When I am referring to the arguments I’ve heard, it’s the arguments that have been brought up to me in the thread “Crafting Memorial; lest we not forget.” I’m happy to hear more arguments so that there is no guilt by association.
You’re absolutely right.
Yeah. You’re absolutely right. So let it apply to all as in another part of the post, I said that auric maelstroms can be done with profane gear. There is enough flexibility to at least get a weapon close to what you want. Just like any other MMO, it does take time to get the blessings you want, it won’t happen Day One. But with enough patience you can get something to work with Guaranteed.
Cite to me the reason where they explicitly state why they changed it, why they chose the model they went with, why they’ve made iterations as slowly as they have and why they just haven’t removed the locks already?
So let’s look at some other things that match your description for precedence…
Hell Divers 2 was supposed to have stats on their helmets but couldn’t do it because of release window. Would’ve been great to have.
Halo 2 was supposed to have the mongoose on release as it was displayed in the EA demo.
Cyberpunk 2077 was laden with features that it was supposed to have but didn’t.
DUST 514 was laden with features that it was supposed to have, but didn’t.
So many more games have had these same problems. Players all loved those features. And they have never came. Given this long history, what makes you think it would be any different?
That’s true. Equally, if you have enough people, there will be some who will complain of anything.
Some people like to cry for the sake of attention.
Some people like to complain because that’s how they vent their emotional trauma.
Thank you for bringing this misunderstanding to my attention.
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Me and one of my friends came back because of the penance update, just to check out what is there now. I do have to admit that getting the gear to like 80% of what I wanted was way better to do. I did have to spend 2 million dockets on just getting a few base weapons worthy of upgrading. The blessing pool for the weapons I was crafting isn’t that big though, and I did get lucky by rolling a t4 and t3 version of the blessings that I needed, so I was completely free to pick the 2 perks that I wanted.
But getting that weapon to perfection would feel really nice. Although I also realise that getting those last few % increase (rolling a t4 blessing instead of a t3, WITH the perks that I want) is such a small chance that I’m just not going to bother with that.
Then I wanted to gear my Ogryn with a shield, and I had to chose between rerolling a perk that I knew would be useful (+stamina), or rerolling a blessing that might help with staggering. This just felt really bad, having to make that choice pretty much blind. The only way I could have made that choice more informed would be to try to get a shield with similar stats, and then check if the stagger blessing was actually worth it by upgrading it and going into the Spykhanium. Basically I would have to make the same weapon twice…
What I would LOVE, is a system that rewards using your newly crafted weapon, to slowly get them to perfection. By unlocking one of the locks, or upgrading a lower tier blessing to a higher tier, after X amount of kills with that weapon. Or something in line with the penance system like for shields block X amount of damage and stagger X amount of elites. For precision weapons it would be get X amount of weakpoint kills.
TL;DR: I think a system that rewards weapon use to remove a lock, or upgrade the tier of a blessing/perk would perfectly complement the current system.
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What would really tie it all together for me would be perfect weapons with free to pick perks and blessings only usable in the Psykhanium, so you can experiment freely, then try to chase that weapon for use in normal missions.
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No it is not.
The fact that perfect gear is not a requirement (which would be impossible in the first place, considering that skill is a factor), is not an argument against a crafting system that actually allows players to work towards perfect gear.
Are you serious?
You say that people ARE using outdated arguments, and proceed to link two posts that are from more than a year ago.
I am not even gonna read them. But i am gonna assume that the arguments used in those posts, were not outdated when they were used.
Ok, so you do not have any basis for telling me that i need to update my self on what the crafting system is, and what FS wanted with it.
Good to know.
This is something different entirely.
You are giving me examples of features not making it into the game due to a lack of time.
I am pretty sure though, that a lack of time can not be blamed for the entire crafting system being an RNG fest that is entirely made up of repetitive actions, when those are things that they intended to do away with.
It is not that they simply did not have the time to include something that they said they would include.
They actively created the opposite of what they said.
And now, more than a year after release, the crafting system is still a dumpster fire that has barely changed since shortly after release
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Yeah. I could agree with that provided it was a path, right? You’d either enhance what you like about what you have, or you enhance the drawbacks, that’d be a cool choice.
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Yeah, the weapon in question for me was a Hellbore mk2. It’s base power was 362, with high damage and high stopping power ~65% charge rate and ~50% ammo. Upgrading it gave it t3 surgical (crit change) and t4 weight of fire (charge rate on chained shots). I rolled the perks to 25% maniac and 5% crit chance. Would be great if I could get the t3 surgical to t4 by simply getting enough headshot kills with it. Or when I do find one with perfect stat distribution but doodoo perks and blessings, reroll the perks to get the needed breakpoints, and know that eventually I can slap on the blessings that I want by taking the weapon with me on missions.
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This is an argument against removing the locks so that all stats are perfected, the underlying arguments are described in the Lore; that these are salvaged weapons. They are not mint fresh condition. I’d rather not dive further into the rabbit hole as this is a surface head-canon reason for why the weapons never have the perfect modifiers. My argument, such as it is should have been more clear in stating that this is a viewpoint against that specific argument, which is something I am guilty of doing on more than one occasion; forgetting about context, and assuming that people are on the same page.
Absolutely serious. The real issue here isn’t just about the age of these threads, but how they’re showcased—like relics on a front page plaque, without any indication that the complaints within have been addressed, if not fully resolved. Presenting them as if they’re still relevant misleads the community. Yes, I’ve seen the mixed reviews on Darktide, and it’s true that many players left after the rocky launch and never returned. But continuing to highlight these outdated issues without acknowledging the progress made is like perpetually beating a dead horse. It doesn’t reflect the updates or the efforts made to improve the game, and that’s a disservice to everyone involved.
I’m just gonna leave that there.
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“you do not need this” is not an argument against being able to get it.
You do not need to be able to write on this forum. That is not an argument for banning you.
You do not need to eat anything that tastes good. That is not an argument for only allowing you to eat some disgusting sludge.
You also do not need to drink anything else than water. That is not an argument for banning you from drinking anything else than water.
Also, this is a game. It is supposed to be fun. That is literally the only reason for games to exist, from the consumer perspective.
People want to be able to optimize their equipment, because it is fun.
Telling people that they do not need this in order to play, is just a worthless and pointless statement.
Sure. All outdated posts could theoretically be removed.
Thing is, there is no need to do that.
I do not think that removing a few of the outdated posts from the list of crafting related posts/threads, would really change anything.
It would just be a lot of unnecessary work.
Btw
I changed my mind and i did actualyl read through the two posts which you claimed were outdated.
The second one still is completely relevant.
The only part that is not up to date, is the part where it says “you can only swap 1 perk”. But Nothing that was said in the post, got invalidated by us now being able to swap 2 perks or 2 blessings instead of 1 of each.
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You know, you’re right. But I think the miscommunication lies that the inverse is also true but you aren’t taking it into consideration. Not everyone enjoys the same things. Some people, like to work with what they’ve got. Because some people enjoy the challenge.
Telling people that they can find their fun by simply not using a new tool (which allows them to maximize their weapons) that’s been supplied to them is the hypocritical “Eff you, I got mine.” Removing Modifier RNG is the crux of the issue that this argument spoke against.
As such, I have vouched for, and even gave input to alternatives that would be great.
EDIT: I recognize that other topics have dropped/been not responded to. In order for me to be able to communicate effectively, we need to address these issues later after we deal with another. I am sorry, but I don’t have that kind of bandwidth, though I promise to speak on them in good faith as I am now.
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No hypocrisy at all.
If you enjoy optimization, there is currently no way for you to engage in that.
If you enjoy the challenge of having bad gear, you would still have the option to choose to use bad gear in order to create a bigger challenge for yourself.
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The optimization is the blessings and the perks right now.
I have agreed with Dysphoria that the option to optimize either what your good stats are for your weapon or to shore up your bad stats on your weapon. But not both. That’s a good compromise.
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Stop it with that bs.
You are just wasting my time.
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I have agreed with Dysphoria that the option to optimize either what your good stats are for your weapon or to shore up your bad stats on your weapon. But not both. That’s a good compromise.
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It seems the miscommunication lies in what either of us call optimization. And we’re probably getting it confused under which optimizations we’re talking about under what pretext. For me, a weapon is optimized when you can choose what blessings to change, and/or what perks to change. Or mix and match. At that point, it has been optimized in the current system.
I recognize the other context of optimization in which we are referring to the modifiers or “Stats” of the base weapon. I am against removing these locks from existence. I like the locks no matter where they stand.
I have also said that I am in favor of finding change, in finding a rework. But I am 100% against a removal. So, where’s the confusion?
And as a reminder, this game has come a long way, whether you want to admit it or not, from what it was at day one, and people celebrate where it is now. The purpose of this forum thread, I remind you, is to find camaraderie in those who do.
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Hello!
I must admit that I am unsure what the purpose of this thread is.
For those who dislike the current crafting system, there is no way to fix it without reworking the existing systems.
I am one ofthose not particularly interested in crafting, as I believe that weapon blessings should be the only agency players should be concerned with. Perks and stats are uninteresting except for the fact that you want as many of them as possible.
However, I am speaking from experience with the current system, and if Fatshark can make crafting more interesting and impactful, my opinion of it may change.
As it stands, I do not see the point of crafting in the first place because it adds nothing of value to the game because all stats are passive effects and the game lacks the RPG features required for me to brainstorm and theorycraft about interesting build options, which do not exist due to how the game works.
A similar game that did it better than Darktide would be Deep Rock Galactic, where your Overclocks are the player agency and you can experiment, though, like in Darktide, there is a “best” way to put on your Overclocks, or Helldivers 2, where you do not have any crafting at all. When you choose any stratagem, you know exactly what you will get.
Crafting, in its current state, adds absolutely nothing to the game experience in my opinion; however, this could change if Fatshark could make it more interesting and allow for more player agency/build options, which are currently lacking.
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I read your entire post. Thanks for chiming in! Sorry about the confusion:
The post outlines the evolution of the crafting system in a game, describing how it started with limited options and gradually expanded to allow more flexibility in modifying weapons and gear. Initially, players relied heavily on luck to get desired items, but over time, the system was refined to allow swapping of perks and blessings more freely, making it less reliant on random chance. Recent updates have been well-received, as evidenced by very positive reviews since August 2023, with players appreciating the improvements to the crafting system and the overall game experience.
In this, I wanted this place to serve as a board to find comradarie in those that enjoy it, and are aware of a movement to remove a mechanic in the game as mentioned in another large thread. It was important to me to have visibility that represented an unspoken demographic of players who enjoy the current crafting system such as it is.
Thank you for your comment. I actually have nothing to add to that. I’m right there with you 100%.
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Flawless, was there anything else you wanted to talk about?
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