The Crafting Memorial; lest we forget

[Cerebrophage]

You make the assumption I’m being intentionally inflammatory. I understand the importance for the message received is just as valuable as the message transmitted. But, I’ve noticed that in this thread, people don’t really care about how you receive the message, just the intention behind it.

If that’s true, why are you deliberately mischaracterizing my purpose when I’ve repeatedly stated what it is, contrary to your assertion?

Didn’t you say you don’t get to choose when you’re being harassed or something to that effect??

[Cerebrophage]

I understand it just fine. You should’ve thought about that first before you got data back that you didn’t like.

[Khorne_Dawg]

Anyways, everyone! I have a question: what is your favourite Astra Militarum Regiment?

I’ll accept Traitoris Militarum too, I suppose.

We had a music discussion earlier, since everything that needs to be said about Crafting has already been said

[Cerebrophage]

Shouldn’t this be moved to a new thread so this thread stays on topic?

[brosgw]

Recently been really into this.

For some reason. Don’t know why.

Constant Headache

[Cerebrophage]

I could use that for my kids lol.

Sia - Unstoppable (Official Video - Live from the Nostalgic For The Present Tour)

But they’ve been into this song a lot (they love Sia) and I gotta say, this song is growing on me. My daughters second favorite song is Bad Romance because of the Cruella music video with Emma Stone.

And I could totally see how this is a troll to some of you, but I assure you, this is 100% fact in my house lol.

[Rainman]

you’re using all of the typical language and rhetoric. You’ve already lost any respect you could’ve had once you started abusing the forum. There is no good faith in arguing with you, especially in arguing with your ego. There is no argument when the argument is about the arguing, so I won’t argue. It’s been done already.

[Cerebrophage]

You mean the rhetoric you guys have been putting out? Someone else cited you guys as continuously dumping on me, and FS even commented that you guys were using ad hominem attacks rather than speaking to my points.

Granted, the dialogue has improved, but now it’s just got a lot of wild goose chases and other “gotcha” kinda stuff that I will still respond to, knowing the purpose of what’s being written. I’m pretty sure brosgw and aryslav wasn’t expecting me to go through the data. Once I did, they started back pedaling on qualifiers, and things of that sort. I stood for the goal post being moved once or twice, I even stood for them holding onto their sources after going through their first of the guy who used the CTRL+F for steam reviews while they were holding onto this nifty little Steam Review tool.

Are you sure that it’s me who’s trolling? Or is it that you can’t stand someone who disagrees with you on a relatively* subjective matter? If Rainman’s comment is any clue, most likely the latter.

[Rainman]

cool beans

[Cerebrophage]

Having gone through today’s (and yesterdays episodes), I still hold no ill will to any of you. I think we had a good conversation today.

[psyk]

feel free to message them and ask they made the statement in the first place if they changed their minds that on them to divulge

[FASAStampede]

Takes two to tango, mate.

You ignore blatant evidence, avoid quoting and following up on inconvenient points, double up on previously addressed points and went from “just making sure people that like the crafting as is are heard”, to “this thread is a disservice to those who want change” to “your statistics are bad, mine are also bad but show the other side”…

You can’t purposefully rile up the folks and then snap back when they call you out.

@Cerebrophage

Having gone through today’s (and yesterdays episodes), I still hold no ill will to any of you. I think we had a good conversation today.

I think the conversation is becoming diluted and petty, but you’re trying to be positive. I don’t think you can salvage any point. This is an “agree to disagree” arc, which is boring and generally useless in conversation.

[Headhunter]

If there was a downvote button for forum posts like Paradox forums - Then that would really show opinions. We are thinking the same thing here on that outcome right.

Whilst people on this forum may or may not be representative on crafting opinion as global playerbase. On this forum majority is clear.

Clear enough for FS to decide to “minimise” RNG They said it and they decided it. So therefore they know it is an issue regardless of what others may dispute.

Nothing else beyond this fact.

Just waiting for someone to say that crafting needs more RNG. Let me know.

[AsukasHeadphones]

@Cerebrophage

Having read your post in earnest, how does the current crafting system, which allows you to chose two “traits” feel to you?

I appreciate you brother, I really do, however I don’t want your earnest attempt at dialogue to go to waste on me; so I’ll be upfront: my experience from “Beta” burned me so hard on this game that I don’t want to ever touch Darktide ever again. Nothing will bring me back except a full rework on the massive pain points that I and many others have on this game. Chiefly of which is the crafting.

I don’t know if you were around for “Beta”, but it was truly horrible. What broke the camel’s back for me was wanting to use a giant chainsaw sword for my zealot only to realize the odds were so stacked against me that I would never get the chance - never mind the rarity, never mind the stats, never mind the suffocating locks, it was a lottery card just to get the weapon.

Now I’m aware things have marginally gotten better somewhat since then, but the fundamental issue is: Darktide’s crafting system is still restrictive to a Vermintide player like me. It was a rude awakening for me to go from Vermintide where I had all the reds, to Darktide, where the game demanded that I repeat the grind all over again except with a bigger time sink. Now I know you can beat these games without the best loot.

I myself do challenge runs like Cata 3+ Onslaught:

Old Haunts - True Duo - Attempt 2 - Onslaught, Cataclysm 3

Or Twitch Cata + Challenges:

Tower of Treachery - Vanguard, Send in the Next Wave - Twitch (300%) Cataclysm

The issue is that I don’t play 'tide games to grind my face off for petty loot. I play these games for the challenge, the teamplay, the amazing gameplay, that’s the end goal for me; the loot treadmill is a massive barrier to that end goal since it:

1. Demands a huge time sink.
2. It prevents me from fully experimenting with different loadouts.

When you reach the end state for these games you want to have, ideally, a ton of loadouts at your disposal to switch to. The reason being that you want to be flexible for both your team and for yourself. You need to be able to rotate characters if needed. You also need to tinker with your stuff after a wipe to see what needs to be changed - I personally constantly switch weapons after a wipe. In a perfect world the crafting will be like the talent system where you freely pick and choose without any hitches to block the process.

At the end of the day these games are mostly skill driven experiences at the end state where you’ll be focusing on your mechanics and improving as a player so you can tackle harder content in order to challenge yourself. So this whole loot chase doesn’t really mash with this type of game. You don’t want to be frustrated over not being able to experiement with a loadout because RNG decided for you to suffer, that’s not what these games are about.

The 'tide games should be less on wasting your time with loot chase and more on getting a comfortable setup going within a reasonable time frame.

[brosgw]

@AsukasHeadphones

At the end of the day these games are mostly skill driven experiences at the end state where you’ll be focusing on your mechanics and improving as a player so you can tackle harder content in order to challenge yourself. So this whole loot chase doesn’t really mash with this type of game.

This is one of the biggest points for me when people start comparing Darktide to other genres or games. When tide games really do focus on this, and it is rarer as a PvE with this focus. At least how high that skill ceiling is and how damage mitigation you can really do as a player.

[Kambrin]

Did you count through all 13555 or did you make soem sort of microscopic sample size extrapolation?

[BFCInsomnia]

@Cerebrophage

Nuetral is the absence of success and absence of failure.

Or neutral is an equal measure of good and bad. A 50% “bad” rating is still a non-passing grade. Which is failiure in all grading systems.

@Khorne_Dawg

Using the reviews is a flawed system. You, myself and @brosgw all agreed on that earlier.

This point really doesn’t need to be repeated again but I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this methodology.

Out of the group of 8 of us which played DT together, none stuck around because of crafting or itemization in general.
Not one of us left a review. All 7 of them simply moved on, likely never to return.

I made my opinion heard through an entire years worth of feedback regarding several issues in the forum.

Gauging community sentiment through reviews simply doesn’t work either way. What does work: looking for positive reinforcement.
There is not a single non-troll post praising DTs itemization and an actual libraries worth saying the opposite.

It’s to the point where holding a different opinion is just illogical.
I’ve said it before; the percentage of people which are against crafting changes happens to coincide with the percentage of people which are delusional. Do with that what you may.

[Kambrin]

@AsukasHeadphones

I would never get the chance - never mind the rarity, never mind the stats, never mind the suffocating locks, it was a lottery card just to get the weapon.

This exact issue is why all but one of my friends refunded this game. All of them expressed interest in buying it again once the current RNG crafting is gone, and all of them found the VT2 system more acceptable. It’s just crazy how many people were completely turned off the game via this RNG gacha pull weapon system. The sharp drop in playerbase near launch was almost exclusively due to that and Fatshark so far has not made enough changes to actually bring those players back

[AsukasHeadphones]

@Kambrin

ll of them expressed interest in buying it again once the current RNG crafting is gone, and all of them found the VT2 system more acceptable. It’s just crazy how many people were completely turned off the game via this RNG gacha pull weapon system.

Pretty much. I have over two thousand hours in Vermintide 2. I’ve been playing since launch day. I originally started with Vermintide 1 but I don’t have as many hours in it as the sequel. So when I read this blog about them realizing the mistakes of their progression systems in regards to loot acquisition in Vermintide and how they plan to do better:

@Fatshark_Hedge

We have learned a lot from our previous choices and gameplay surrounding crafting offered within the Vermintide series. For Darktide we wanted to take those lessons to expand and improve in such a way that crafting would become a central pillar of player progression, while giving more impact and agency to you, the player in your preferred playstyle.
[…]
The nature of randomization and repetitive actions sometimes seen within crafting is something that we are steering to avoid in the crafting system within Darktide. Meaningful choices will be made with strategy and goals behind them, as you set your eyes upon that perfect combination of melee and ranged weapons for your class.

Well. Suffice to say. Imagine my disbelief when I realized they somehow created a system that was far, far, worse than anything I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s worse than grinding wafius in free to play gacha games. It’s worse than grinding Rivens in Warframe. They even admitted how screwed the whole thing was:

@Fatshark_Hedge

The designers are aware that finding specific items with a specific perk is a lottery. They had done the math too and when I suggested it was like a lottery I was told I was understating it.

Add on to the fact that people had to wait real life hours to even get chance at the lottery and you have the perfect recipe for THE most player antagonistic system I’ve ever seen in my 20 years of gaming. They unironically created a skinnerbox and thought this was okay to greenlit:

[Ragnarok101]

Just ignore him. Dude will leave once he stops getting attention.

Or he’ll make enough of a nuisance to get himself banned.

Either way we don’t have to tolerate his rambling nonsense.