State of Knight

Its kind of horrible. Valliant Charge is bugged for as long as the game is alive and his Talents either make him an averagely well frontliner, or a worse Merc.

There are hardly any distinguishing factors between Knight and Merc. Both have Attack Speed Talents, both have minor Damage boosts, which both are hardly triggerable on Monsters, or bosses. Both have the ability to gain DR. The only distinguishing factors are the THP generation and Mercs passive “Hitting the Sweeet Spot” which makes him wreck waves a lot faster than the Knight, who got 3 seconds of on demand invulnerability in return.

Lets start with those, since its pretty much the only nice thing about Knight right now.
Those 3 seconds are amazing. You can dive into waves to rescue a team member, activate it to negate damage from certain specials, use it to safely gain THP during waves, and generally just execute mad situations that would otherwise wreck you.

The rest of the Knights Talents are utter rubbish.
The frontline role got gutted when last year “Counter-Punch” got nerfed to 1 second. You just cant hold a cata wave better than any other career that has extra stamina regeneration. You will run out really quickly and just ask yourself why you are even playing that.
What we are left with in line 25 is the probably worst Talent line in the game. Movement Speed once its to late already, a push Talent that does hardly have any impact, or minor to zero DR. Nothing there is worth the Talent point.

Lets look at another Talent line. 20.
I actually was quite interested in “Champion of Taal” the very first time I read about it in the beta patchnotes. 10% power was enough to make some Breakpoints happen. I never used it once. BCR is the most valuable stat in the game and you get 20% gifted in that line. 10% power, which dont do anything in the current state of the game, are not even halfway worth it, which is an actual shame. This line could be, in my eyes, the breaking point between playing the shield basher, or the elite and monster damage dealer.
It would have to be meaningful damage you gain through “Taals Champion” to make it worth giving up 15% DR and 20% BCR. Something like 50% added Head damage would do the trick.

Line 30 is also worth some words.
“Bull of Ostland!” is just nonsense. The only thing it does is compete with Merc again, a battle the Knight cant win, because of cleave. If there was a way to activate that Talent without a wave, so it would enhance Monster or Boss dps, that would be a whole different story. Trample I will never use, because screw “does not stack with similar effects”. I still dont know what effects, and why would I even take the chance when Iam giving up 3 seconds of god mode.

Kruber right now is the least played Hero, according to the 10th April Announcement and the lack of variety between his careers most likely plays a big part in that role. Fixing the stagger overwrite Valiant Charge suffers from would be a very gentle first step into the right direction.

7 Likes

I definetely agree with the Charge Bug.
If my memory is not tricking me, this problem was in the game since it’s launch, or even Beta Release, years ago. It can easily just kill one of your teammates simply because the knockdown effect gets canceled out and a Chaos Warrior does a quick sweep from a falling animation.

I am not going to argue about the talents here, because I have not played Cata and probably have much less merit on this topic, when challenged.

I think, the lack of Variety in Kruber’s playstyle also partially comes from how lackluster his armaments are.
Yes, people are going to argue about how “2hammer is actually awesome”, and how “2sword great”, and how “handgun can win games in the right hands”, but everything comes down to many weapons requiring a lot of skill and footwork, just to be on par with the “Most Effective Tactic Available”.
What is the point of learning to properly kite and combo with a 1mace, when you can just walk through hordes and chop down elites with an ExSword? Why learn positioning and reload timings with a handgun, when you can just press Q and crouch with a Repeater and kill a special in the middle of the fight?

1 Like

@warget says, FK is a bit harder to master. I think the problem is actually Merc is so forgiving and rewards LMB-to-victory that it’s simply not worth learning FK for many many people, or they don’t see the value or Sword+Board != MAH GREEN CIRCLES! WAAAAA!.

The bugged charge is his greatest problem. You can get hit during it with other talents, it can be nullified by another stagger happening and get stuck on a blade of grass. IF the bugs were fixed it is up so often it is really useful, and people using it properly by blocking to stop the charge when they need to is a skill people don’t use.

FK isn’t awful, but the problem is Merc is too good and more forgiving.

4 Likes

Disagree, FK is awesome when you play him as intended, my favorite Kruber able to CC easily and quickly repeated.

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Kind of wish FK had a small stagger power passive. That way he’d be better at staggering things (outside of his charge ofc) than Mercenary by default. It’s kind of hilarious that a lot of FK builds can actually have less melee stagger than the meta power stack Merc ones.

3 Likes

I agree, FK needs some love… here I wrote my thoughts.

Anyway I think the same thing: “aggressive” talents (like more power or attack speed) make FK a weaker Merc… BUT this is a complicated speech.

Imho we should start from those things that could give to FK some particularities when compared with IB (like more agility or staggering capacity)… a couple of good examples could be Valiant Charge (ult), Staggering Force and Counter Punch (talents)… but these abilities have serious problems that should be fixed (for more details read the linked thread).

give foot knight a shield + 2h sword, shield + 2h hammer or shield + exe sword. it’ll make it do alot more dmg and still spam cc.

edit: forgot about shield + halberd and shield + spear lulz

Shield and spear is actually possible. About the suggestions. Why not shield and handgun, shield and longbow and shield and repeater? :slight_smile:

edit2: why did it say I edited it the first time? lies!

You forgot to suggest Shield + Shield.

4 Likes

I think there’s room for Footknight to have his talents and passives revisited, but Merc is very much too good. Merc just gets too much damage reduction. But Footknight without sword and shield and a good team is pretty famished.

1 Like

and shield + fist :smiley:

100% this,

I’ve been playing FK on legend 200% twitch a bit lately, his ult is more than capable of staggering a big pack of elites, but you have to use a shield for that to work. Any other weapon and the aoe that happens when you collide with the first elite, becomes a lot smaller I feel. Maybe this is based on stagger strength of the weapon, maybe purely the shield idunno. But I do feel that this is working as it should, at least on legend.
I feel like a bonus to stagger should be added as a passive, and the 35% stagger power talent reworked into something else. That would make more weapons viable against hordes on FK (looking at you halberd), and fit more thematically. What about flat power increase, and then replace the aura flat power talent (can’t remember the name, taal something) with an aura range increase or the like.

I totally agree with the sentiment that Merc has too much dmg reduction at the moment. 40% for 10 seconds for your entire team is just insane!
Maybe his power increasing talents should reduce his stagger strength? To make his role more obvious vs fk

Merc’s problem is a possible 45% power boost + 65% damage reduction at the same time. Not counting enhanced power.

FK can have a max 25% power or 30% damage reduction, but not at the same time.

1 Like

I haven’t tested this at all but if it’s true it could also be connected to the weapon’s block angle.

They have to buff FK and not nerf Merc… Wich, when compared with the “same role” careers, like WHC and Zealot, has pro and cons.
FK is overshadowed by Merc ONLY when we choose the aggressive talents that increase FK’s power and attack speed but they remove the damage reduction… But the problem are those talents. They are nonsense (FK is the only tank with IB… Why should I change him in the umpteenth DPS melee career?).
When we play FK as a tank, he has many advantages compared with Merc… But, despite this, FK has still certain mechanics that should work smoother.
For example his ult should be less buggy… The stagger bonus should be a passive and should have a better synergy with shield (if you use a shield, Staggering Force talent is useless, I tested it)… He should have invulnerability on ult as default… Etc, etc… I already wrote everything in my thread, that one I linked.

Merc is just better then fk in almost all cases.
Yes fk needs his bug fixed, some useless talents reworked
But you can’t deny that merc is just much much better even when fk will get those things fixed or tweaked.

Merc literally has everything. And thinking that 40% dmg reduction on ult which stacks with everything and is for your entire team + gives temp hp + staggers 360 degrees + has spear a cc heavy weapon + lots of dmg and attack speed + one of the highest cdr on hits and dmg taken is fine? Then idk what to say. There needs to be changes to both of the careers.

2 Likes

How far do you think FK would have to be buffed to match Mercenary in effectiveness? Do you think Mercenary is balanced in comparison to other careers?

I think he just doesn’t like the more offensive talents on fk, like attack speed, hero power increase etc. Because why would i play with those if i could play merc ( pretty sure thats what he means).

Effectiveness as in overall effectiveness, not just offensive prowess.

I think he just wants more tanky talents or more impactfull offensive talents, but i’ll let him explain xs

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