tbh, anyone this soft about things like that should not play anything online. do single player. try playing w/o the internet in your games. that will help you avoid these ppl
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ohhh yeeeesss))))
I disagree, though Iâll admit my argument here is definitely starting to get more into semantics and being mildly pedantic. Newer players donât understand that sticking together is important at low difficulties because they really donât have to - enemies are pushovers. Shooting and killing enemies is more fun - so they do it all the time because they can get away it with it. Doesnât matter if there was coherency or not, most new players donât even know what that is.
I think playing at higher difficulties where players have gotten better, and therefore have learned to stick together and kill chasing is pointless, is whatâs preventing it from being more common. Does it still happen? Sure, sometimes, but itâs because the player is advanced enough that they feel they can get away with it because letâs be real - shooting things is more fun than clumping together and not shooting things. If theyâre not good enough, then they die and learn a lesson. I just donât think a scoreboard affects this nearly as much as some people are suggesting it does.
I think itâs a byproduct that killing enemies is more fun than not, and people play the game to have fun so that sometimes just takes over common sense and proper teamplay.
Thanks for the advice, but is not neccessary.
Gamers gaming with a performance aproach can spoil me a game or mission but i then just leave and look for likeminded players.
The point is that performance thinking and relying on meritocracy mythâs for âgamingâ games often leads to toxicity, because these gamers take it all to serious while most players just dont and play more for fun.
These two groups mostly dont fit to each other.
The ones fun to perform doesnt macht with the others fun to just play a game.
Expectations arent met and the performers may become sour and toxic torwards the lazy, cozy, casual for fun player who âdidnt respect their efforts, their goalsâ etc.
And i just wanted to point out that i see your point but see it vice versa.
My opinion is also that the group of very dedicated people with strong opinion is a small, but like allways the loudest group.
But they dont reflect the majority of players or the audience a game developer and publisher is mainly looking for.
The Developer/ Publisher want to sell their product to as much people as possible and want that majority what is mostly playing casual and for fun to have a good time.
Dedicated gamers, gaming systems, min maxing with a performance aproach are often not that cozy and lighthearted, but tend to stress everyone else and become derogative and insulting very quickly.
Lots of examples like from CS to LoL or CoD and to some degree also true for Tides games and many others.
From this PoV i understand the Developers decision regarding a scoreboard and wanted to point out that there are people that see it vice versa to you.
And you came up with a friendly worded version of snowflake go home 
Not toxic, dont feel adressed or attacked, but the rating and advising has the same spirit.
have fun o/
toxicity? mentioned one time in one post by one cm as far as i know, its certainly never been the issue brough up on these forums threads.
I strongly disagree with this on so many points 
1. The kill shot isnt nescessarily the right play.
if you shoot the ogryns target you could deny him over 40 toughness regen break his chain and get him killed.
if you shoot the psykers Brain burst target you could cause his stacks to fall off and drastically impact his dps,
throwing a grenade into melee launches enemies all over the place, making it much harder to defend and group enemies for efficient strikes.
theres so many examples of things that improve stats but are bad play.
Its simply not a usefull set of results
if you want to test something , you want it to be the only variable and for the test to be repeatable infinite times.
a run of DT has bilions of billions of combinations of events which is clearly a lot more than 1. and its a single sampling of that set, which is clearly a lot less than infinite and the variables are not repeatable each sample will be unique.
if these sort of stats represented anything reliable gambling on sports wouldnt be a thing.
3. its is negative to the desired play.
it is a scoreboard based on competing with your team, in a game that is meant to be co operative, now i like competitive games to theres nothing wrong with them at all as a young man they were my thing. its just out of place here.
the scores are not measuring capacity or skill its zero sum the team faces the same number of threats so its not a question of how many can you kill how much damage can you do, its a question of how much of this pie can you eat before you competition.
and thats the thing, if your teams your competition its going to cause isues. why should i let you get ammo? why should i let you take that kill its making me look bad.
it doesnt matter if you thinkk that way or not the game is pushing you that direction and thats bad design.
tldr - im a whiny crybaby that would rather take your fun away than git gud.
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youâre assuming alot of things here. for starters, a scoreboard does not have to show offensive stats. kills and all that is nice and some ppl will tunnel vision but you are lying to yourself if you dont think those same ppl are doing it right now. its sad i have to tell you this but a scoreboard can and should show things like headshot rate, assist-like things, toughness generated, revives, etc. there can be more to a scoreboard then a greedy playstyle that someone could find rewarding
another example: for yourself. you have weapon a, b, and c. you try them. you can see w/ combination of stats affect you offense, survivability, dmg but not kills, kills but not dmg, dmg taken: the list can go on. its just a tool, you guys are over thinking it. if you dont care about it, dont use it. you cant sit here and tell me youâre gonna be in your feelings if the pve game has a scoreboard and you have some kind of fear about under performing. just skip past it if you dont care
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if you want to reach out to people, argue and convince them, then this form of communication is likely to fail and end in endless debates with hardened fronts from my experience.
The points were made by both sides long ago and now again, and again, anf againâŚ
FS has made a decision before release already.
And you can argue that this decision is wrong in your opinion, but have to accept others disagree with your PoV or the advocates for a scoreboard however it would look like.
i wrote
and are not against more stats end mission in general, but the thread again proves that people who point out it leads also to toxicity - maybe we define this different - are right more often as the toxic ways to coomunicate are already presented in this short thread already.
âidiotic, crybabies, e-peenâŚâ
are the words used by the advocates, rate people giving them advices how to be, what do do etc.
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clearly the right decisions werenât made. this is why we are where we are now. lets change this
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It does though.
- When things go bad, players often want to place blame outwards rather than inwards.
- Without any objective indicator of how good or bad youâre typically doing, itâs insanely easy to just always blame your teammates
- Well in actual matches people do blame their teammates like that, and that toxicity is the result of them having no good information about how good they actually are as a player.
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Maaaaaaaan did you see the scoreboards in Verm 2 ? Sure they would list your damage done and killcounts which, besides self-masturbatory purposes would also allow you to gauge the damage potential of your setup thus allowing for better comparison and gear optimization (which is kind of the end game of tide games).
But they would also give you other stats like damage taken or amount of player saves you did so they would also give a clear image of oneâs defensive skills and incentivize players to learn their parries/dodges
Finally itâs kind of common practice in all type of games to have some notion of score at the end I really donât see whatâs shocking in asking one
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Yeah i played it. 2k h of it actually. Enough for me to understand that, better comparison, and gear optimization (which is one of the main arguments of scoreboard wannahaves) goes hand in hand with proper and wider wargear customization like v2 had. DT is a game, where RNG roll decides overall quality of the gear, and that puts sweaty players, that play this game 13h + every day, into an advantage. I dont wanna be penalized, just because im not willing to invest that much of my live into this game, when comparing my match score at the end of a round.
There should be a lot more info than v2 had on its scoreboard. For example iâd love to see how much stagger i do. How much damage i blocked/dodged. V2 scoreboard was too much focused on kills and damage, and then damage taken.
Absolutely nothing, thats why i said im ok with scoreboard, but RNG of this game has to be adressed first. Also, i dont think that majority of people wants this. That is just subjective pov of some players active in this community. Reading all those reviews, iâd say its 50 -50.
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Wooohh 2K, I salute you kind sir. And yeah, totally agree with everything you said. One of my favorite mods in Verm2 was the one that let you see the amount of team damage you did, so you could spot those pesky hagbane Kerillian shooting everywhere or feel sorry when you were the pesky Kerillian shooting everywhere <3
Stagger and damage blocked / dodge would also be an amazing addition, giving more incentive to help protecting your team
As far as I can find, thereâs been 2 statements from CMs on the scoreboard.
quoting long posts cuts it off so hereâs the rest of it:
Both talk about encouraging cooperative behavior, and down play the green circles chasing.
The âpeople are dunking on people with bad scoresâ is not the main reason they got rid of the score board. Thatâs just what âpro scoreboardâ people focus on because itâs easy to tear down.
âŚ
I think some of the penances are causing some of the issues. For example the ones that require you to beat the mission in under X minutes.
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if someone is better than other people, for some reason they feel insulted, and they need to do mental gymnastics to cope with it. Its very narcissistic of them to feel slighted and to have to create a big gaslight about it to feel better.
if someone is better than you, they are not:
- toxic
- chasing kills, green circles
- playing wrong
- what ever other copes you got.
if someone is better than you they are better than you, period.
I play v2 at cata twitch and modded, and I am almost always the one with the majority of green circles, especially if I just play a quick cata with randos, I get these circles because I am better than you, im not trying to run ahead and get circles, i head shot everything in range in a fraction of a second on repeat till its all dead. I have 300 headshots a game.
Iâm sorry you cant do that, but it doesnât mean I am any of the gaslights you complain about, and Iâve never used the scoreboard to insult some one.
Iâve got 6k hours in the game and Iâve seen someone be toxic about scoreboard 3 times, it simply doesnât happen.
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There is hardly any RNG in Vermintide for end-game gear. You craft what you need, and you are rolling in mats at the end so you can craft whatever you want at whatever level you want.
Absolutely agree with this one. We need crafting :).
I prefer the RNG shops to the RNG loot boxes, but without crafting I just donât bother.
That doesnât prove anything; fatshark âofficial statementâ is known to have been wrong on plenty of occasions.
So you ask for proof, but reject a first hand source. The Only first hand source I can find from FS on the topic.
OKâŚ
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yeah sorry didnt make it clear that was taken from a conversation about the V2 style scoreboard.
and yeah i did also suggest that different type back when this came up.
for testing and working things out we need more control than a run in DT will provide , expansion of the test room i think would be the best way to go for that.
Itâs been proven that fatshark official comment havenât been reliable.
So you got nothing as usual?
Lol, right buddy.
You asked for a source, but you didnât actually think there was one. Youâre shocked there was one, and have to resort to a pathetic attempt to discredit it because you literally have nothing except what youâve made up and pretend is attributed to FS.
If FS saying why they removed it isnât good enough proof, just admit you donât care about proof and just want to pretend like it was removed because of something that doesnât exist so you can valiantly tear it down.
If you engage with reality youâre more likely to get FS to listen to you. But go ahead and keep tilting at those windmills, surely that will do something.
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