With the recent scoreboard mock-up picture circling around, the scoreboard discussion is getting raised again, so let me bring up a perfect solution that will satisfy players and adhere to FS’s “toxicity” policies:
Make the scoreboard accessible after the match. People still can check their stats, compare and keep track of their performance, whilst there’s no place for text/voice chat abuse and comparing johnson sizes during/after the match(unless you’re playing as a group, but then the toxicity is your groups dynamics fault).
I rest my case. Thoughts?(apart from mental teenagers who just want a reason to be toxic)
We’ve had debates in VT2 last year about the ‘toxicity’ of the scoreboard. People treated it as an issue even though almost nobody seemed to have personally experienced any verbal abuse over it in the 5 years VT2’s been out.
The overall sentiment was that DT’s scoreboard should be better ; not that it should be done away with. But alas, suddenly Fatshark cried that there were toxicity issues, and just said it would be ‘coming later’, probably as an excuse to have less work.
It’s even more of a non-issue in DT because you can just mash spacebar at the end and leave the mission super fast.
Edit : Yes, I am aware that one of the main issues this brought up is green circle chasers. However I still believe that a scoreboard would significantly help people improve their choice of gear and their gameplay.
The problem imo is that personal or individual stats, no matter where or when shown support a less cooperative playstyle and encourage players to go for their individual statistics and play less team orientated.
If at all we need stats they should be exclusively about teamwork and not show anything individual.
Edit: with the exception of rescues/ revives maybe, because this is an individual stat number solely for your team.
Don’t forget they have put a well done screen that show you how many experience points you have been granted.
Happy?
Why saying you don’t care at level 30? Off course this is important. That"s why there is an excellent perk for your curio to get more experience per mission! Happy?
Why do you say this perk has made you waste many plasteels? I can assure you this is really a must have perk!
It depends on the mentality. I like having the scoreboard, especially when I test out new builds. My priorities don’t change: take out biggest threats, keep the team alive. My performance gives me info about my build/playstyle - the things I like to improve - and tells me if I’m going in the right direction.
Never cared about the green circles, but if you make a special/elite deleting build and you’re being highly outscored by a blunderbuss/knife Ogryn(for example), then you know your build is lacking.
Personally I’d like a “personal” scoreboard at the end just so I can see if I’m doing better or not. I like the idea of using percentages a lot of the time too. Like, you could tell me what percentage of the team’s boss damage came from me without telling me who did the worst and I feel like that would help me learn and improve without targeting particular players.
Yeah, just personal stats would also be acceptable, but then I’d like to have the option to check them for the last few games(5-10), so I have some data to compare.
That they decided on “toxicity” being the reason they left out the scoreboard is so funny to me, as if to imply that FS doing things like habitually releasing unfinished games, not communicating with the player base, and following the hopefully dying trend of live service models aren’t toxic.
Yeah, I lost interest in VT2 and Darktide after a while because somebody made fun of my score once, not because of the months long content droughts and radio silence from the devs.
That’s because the ones claiming it causes toxicity are the ones being toxic.
They think they’re good but got destroyed by scoreboard(they acquired very few if any green circle; shame about that improved scoreboard that greencircles highest friendlyfire), as in their toxicity got shut down by scoreboard instead.
Meanwhile fatshark was just making an excuse to not have a functional scoreboard because, as we can see, plenty of other more important parts of game needed time/resources and scoreboard is of very low priority.
I’ve said that numerous times across different posts as well. People claim the VT2 scoreboard is toxic, but I’ve never encountered any bad experiences with players chasing numbers like that for their scoreboard. The only place the complaints exist are on forums.
Seems like a good idea, i’d like to see some stats after a game. Besides, i think the game already has options to friend/ignore people, right?.. haven’t used any of those yet, i play solo.
I agree with you though, gamers these days seem to be addicted to toxicity, even looking at some posts on this forum makes me feel like we need another proper purge of heretics
I don’t really know how much content you expect from a game not at full price besides, more is coming! Patience, we’ll get it… i didn’t play vermintide myself, but the devs seem to be working on darktide. Again, i got no experience with game development and how long it realistically takes to implement new content (and how much effort/money it takes), so i play for now… i purge, i have fun, if i’d get bored i guess i’d take a week off or so… but i don’t see myself abandoning this game anytime soon.
As one of the biggest advocates of scoreboard im perfectly fine with this. I dont care about comparing my epeen with random players. i want it to check out my builds stats and compete with my friends. And if we can see it after the game that works just perfectly.
Players are toxic, score boards are not. I have blocked many toxic players, none have been because of score boards.
The lack of scoreboards helps no one and does not reduce toxicity. A much bigger problem are the weeklies that incentivises bad play. The penances I can live with, they’re quite wonky and fun and I want more of them, but the weeklies are recurring.
Agreed. My view has been that this is the only real issue with scoreboard, namely that it encourages suboptimal gameplay in the form of green circle chasing. I never encountered anyone actively being toxic of the “git gud noob” variety in VT2. However, perusing the scoreboard threads on this forum makes it very clear that that brand of toxicity is very much alive and present – makes me think FS may have been wise to not include the scoreboard…
The weeklies are crap, but the scoreboards definitely did encourage bad play in VT2. I’ve played many VT2 pickup games where blatant green circle chasing led to bad teamwork.
i cant repeat this enough, the toxicity argument never was about the few seconds, where everyone has to look at it.
basically the gist of the argument is that the existence of certain stats incentive behaviors that run contrary to the team play design,
(most notably running ahead)
almost no one took the stance that the scoreboard leads to an endemic verbal toxicity.
you can question the logic behind that train of thought too ofcourse but please stop dismantling the stance no one had in the first place
well, those posts mostly started when the discussion escalated ad absurdum, i suspect that they are mostly a sarcastic response to ridicule the side who where against end scores,
“look at me how angry scorecards made me” “i insult everyone now without a scoreboard add them back”, basicly playing off on how absurd that sounds,
tho as i already mentioned, verbal toxicity wasn’t part of the argumentation on the anti-scorecard side
i might be off, or have a biased view on this but i have been part of this debate since the beginning, and not to my pleasure i can assure you.
Such as? If you’re referring solely to people chasing kills and whatnot, that has nothing to do with the scoreboard. EDIT: Why does “Such as?” somehow manage to come across aggressively no matter how I mentally think of the phrase? Dammit brain.
Gestures broadly at people doing the exact same thing in every coop game since the dawn of time, regardless of scoreboard or not
The exact same behavior occurs in Darktide as in VT2, without a scoreboard. Now with the added bonus of penance chasers ruining matches or people actually taking the memeing about nothing can live seriously and aggroing daemonhosts on purpose. I’ve experienced 100x more toxicity in Darktide than I ever did in VT.
besides, more is coming! Patience, we’ll get it… i didn’t play vermintide myself, but the devs seem to be working on darktide. Again, i got no experience with game development and how long it realistically takes to implement new content (and how much effort/money it takes), so i play for now… i purge, i have fun, if i’d get bored i guess i’d take a week off or so… but i don’t see myself abandoning this game anytime soon.