I was playing VT2 when this thought hit me. In VT2, they relatively recently incorporated the player list plus mod into the main game. When they did so, they added an option for players to set their builds to “Always private”, “Visible to friends only”, “Always public” when viewed in the tab menu.
I think an excellent compromise for all involved would be to add such a set of options for the victory/defeat screen sequence. I personally have no issue with the scoreboard -I certainly miss it both here in Darktide and while doing weaves in VT2- and if this is implemented I will have mine set to “Always public,” but I can understand why others might not be comfortable with it just as with build visibility.
Other games always had scoreboards and it was never an issue. If some players are toxic then they WILL flame you regardless if there is a scoreboard or not and regardless if you show your not efficient stats/build or keep it private so that he’s blocked from viewing it. I’m firm on my stance that they should bring it back and instead of dumbing down the features for all players they should be responsible and ban toxic players and griefers. What I think is that we should stick to the rule of “don’t fix it if it ain’t broken”.
The only coop game I’ve ever seen with scoreboard toxicity problems was overwatch 1 and that was because the scoreboard there was seemingly built to encourage toxicity. Now that they’ve added a real scoreboard in overwatch 2 it’s basically disappeared.
Just give people an option to auto-mute text and voice chat when the scoreboard appears and they’ll never have to hear a word about it.
Toxic comments are less of a problem related to a scoreboard (as those will happen even in a vacuum on the Internet) than an overtly competitive playstyle from players chasing a higher score, which I’m sure people have been saying over and over since the debate has started.
i know FS ran a narrative of toxicity and theres been a mind boggling were “scared” of the score board but these are not the issue
Firstly the scoreboard is actually less than no use at all . its going to misslead you. the basic mathmatical illeteracy of thinking you can do single repetitions of something with more possible variations than there are stars in the sky and come out with usefull numbers is frankly a little nutty.
1.b the very obvious contradiction that actually as you get better these numbers will drop not increase and the best way to maximise these stats is to team up with 3 noobs and take all day struggling to find the exit
While i acknowledge that there are people who simply will not play as a team no matter what a scoreboard that incentivises competitive play in a co operative game is going to cause this issue to be worse.
what does this look like? well imagine in v2 your half a second away from decaapitating a stormvermin, the kill is in the mail but the waystalker ults through you to get the kill.
now a competitve player incentivised by the scorecard will want to do this its a an extra kill on his pile and its a double win because its a kill off his competitiors tally.
a co operative player will have done this by mistake and wll realise it was a waste of his resources.
The only issue I have with the scoreboard is that it is missing. If anything the Darktide scoreboard should be an improvement over the modded V2 scoreboard.
The idea that the toxicity would be the reason to remove it makes me laugh. You are playing online games, if you play with the general public and not your friends, occasionally you WILL run into people you don’t want to have anything to do with. The scoreboard being there or not won’t change that.
I’m really not here to argue whether scoreboards are a must or the source of all that ails the world. There are other threads for that, thank you.
Word on the street is that it has been confirmed (on Discord I think?) that we will be getting personal stat screens at the end of each run. If in a group of friends, this feature I propose would be useful and a LOT less annoying than everyone having to post 4 screenshots in a special channel on the Discord server each time.
People who don’t want to run public stats don’t have to and people who do still can. If you’re worried about showboaters showing off for style points maybe they could add an additional option to choose NOT to see anyone else’s even if they have it as “Always public” but now it feels like it’s getting a bit ridiculous. I f we go that far maybe there should also be an “Enable green circles” button that shows circles if all strike group members have it selected.
It we’re taking the compromise route, we may as well commit to it.
I’ve heard of people getting kicked after carrying a team… not saying a word and doing all the work… right at the exit.
Programming in "If kicked (or DCed) you end up host at the same spot’ would be valuable. Scoreboard is fine, tells you if you are doing enough or just think you are while the guy next to you killed all the baddies you were your kills.
Agreed! I’ve also tried suggesting private personal scoreboards with public team scoreboards, yet people keep getting hung up on egotistical and philosophical symptoms, instead of rethinking the cause.
Your idea adds an interesting component to this though, which is allowing people to set their scoreboard to private vs public visibility. I believe the added drawbacks and positives of this cancel each other out at “worst,” so I’d be in favor of adding this system capability.
Its not a scoreboard if people can hide it. Every single person should be shown on the scoreboard period. It should have very detailed numeric information like Vermintide.
And if you are insecure about your skill in a video game and scared other people will hurt your feelings, i heavily recommend making friends and playing with them. Literally spend your time on making friends instead of asking for removing very basic game features that doesn’t suit you.
The bigger issue isn’t “toxicity” in the sense of saying anything, it’s people being encouraged to play badly to pad their scoreboard stats. Maybe there are team based metrics that won’t cause this problem, but a standard scoreboard with things like kills and damage done are going to make this a worse experience on public matchmaking.
After playing a lot of Darktide, some weapons are made to support rather than rack up kills, but that support can be a tremendous help. Some of the more kill heavy weapons, like the void staff, don’t really bring a lot to the table that needed to be done, but people will still choose it to see kill numbers go up.
There’s several threads across multiple boards complaining that Ogryn aren’t very good because they don’t kill fast enough, which completely misses the amazing work Ogryn’s DO bring to the table. A flat kill count/damage done scoreboard would hurt Darktide by giving misleading information on what builds or weapons are “the best.”
So instead of misleading information for build and weapons based on scoreboard, you accept misleading information because of lack of it? how is that any different?
Ogryns have huge damage options, with their amazing selection of heavy weapons, and everything being walking headshot height in comparison. Ive been having a blast…literally. (But that’s because I see Ogyrn as a bruiser, not a tank. Id wager they do no damage because they use a shield and hold block, and theres nothing wrong with that. but there are other methods)
Yeah, they absolutely need to come back and be as detailed as possible. Toxic players will be toxic, people are not grouping up with noobs just to see green circles, and their absence leaves us without solid tools to improve our game.
One thing that does make me play much worse though is penances and weekly challenges so let’s remove those in stead (not really serious here, but it is true).
You will never see me berate anyone in a game, and if I give criticism I make a real effort to be overly nice as text is otherwise a bad medium, but most of the time I’ll just be quiet.
Yeah, I don’t need a scoreboard with misleading info to know how I’m doing. I was there. There’s also the Meat Grinder to get detailed damage for individual weapon and loadout builds.
There is a very tiny subset of players that are jerks about the score, they’re easy to deal with block/mute/ignore. This verbal minority is not the issue with the score board.
The issue with the VT score board is it gives the wrong message to new players. The score board should display and emphasize data that helps new players become better co-op players. The score board in VT emphasizes kills, damage and other metrics that don’t show new players how to be better players. A lot of new players think they should chase the green circles. It encourages bad play styles – rushing a head to get kills etc. It results in new players learning bad habits that work on recruit and veteran, but fail at champion and beyond. These players either fizzle out and quit or they stay and play veteran, running ahead to get the circles, and this makes the entire early player ecosystem worse.
It’s a co-op game and the score board should reflect that. The VT score board looks like it was designed for a PVP game.
that’s avoiding what I asked isn’t it. what’s the difference between misconceptions based on the scoreboard, when other equal misconceptions are born without it?
either way you don’t actually fix anything, you just shift the mark. that’s not a solution.
Hell Id, even put forward the idea that a scoreboard promotes bad practices is itself a misconception.
There is no incentive to farm kills. You don’t get more xp or money, nor items. It’s completely arbitrary. Correct me if im wrong, unless they changed The system after I finished with verminitde 2)
You only get money/xp for winning, doing secondary objectives, and getting your whole team through alive (I seem to remember there being a downside to leaving a man behind in vermintide).
Penances on the other hand can promote REALLY bad habits if you sign up with randoms, OR encourage teamwork if you sign up with friends. Seems folley to me to justify removing one “thing” for a reason, and adding an entire new “thing” that does the same,