Still, the randomization of the events and the subsequent difficulty increase for CoD during Patch 3.0 are not mentioned. It was only noted in a developer’s blog post here in the forum (and just the addition of more randomization).
As for difficulty itself, it is still rather tame on most maps. While I favour a dynamic difficulty gap with some easier and some more difficult finales, I have to wonder if the lower cap has to be this low.
Well that is a different discussion entirely was more pointing out that the end event has changed in the past and pretty dramatically. Maybe i missed some context in the person I quoted.
It is tame and mostly still doable for most legend frequenting groups however the increase is still there for nearly every map. I’m also not arguing that cod should be as hard as it is currently but most of the 1.6 events were considered pretty much to be jokes. But ye some common floor for most end difficulties or just consistency on what you should be expecting.
I agree, it feels like with most maps by the time you get to the finale it’s basically a guaranteed win. Having differing difficulty across maps is fine but it seems that finales are not a difficulty spike at all in a huge chunk of maps.
I think the ideal difficulty profile for a map is a decent baseline difficulty throughout with 2-3 spikes of which one should be the finale. Right now that kinda works but on most maps the finale spike is barely there. Mid map monsters and patrols cause much more wipes IMO.
Then you get maps like convo/enchanters where the profile is pretty flat all the way through followed by a tremendously high spike at the end.
I’m talking about mechanics, not anecdotes. XD
But you missed the point regardless: mistakes happen, and to me a game where a single mistake means a fail is not interesting. In those kinds of games having to restart the event means minutes of walking back there, recasting buffs etc, and I can hardly think of something more tedious.
I enjoy creating builds to some extent as well, that’s not what I’m talking about here. I just dislike game scenarios where an outcome is predetermined at the start, and that’s where concepts like “DPS checks” come into play. My argument was that such a thing doesn’t really belong on vermintide. I base such assumption on my experience with VT1, where builds almost didn’t exist.
Of course the day might come where such a thing is an integral part of a future VT game, but that day would be the day I quit.
Convo has a spike in QP where a monster spawns on the spiral stairs and groups try and fight in on the stairs. 70% wipe rate in QP if people don’t pull it back to the large midden room.
I still maintain convocation went under the radar for many players as they simply used the ability to cheese-skip it. I couldn’t tell you what it was like prior to the fix for the cheese as 90% of QP games used the cheese. This suggests it was just as tough before the fix, but no one cared (and no one commented or made a thread) as it got cheese so much.
Whether or not you can complete it currently with a blindfold on and a rabid weasel savaging your gentleman’s sausage is irrelevant.
The average player drops or wipes, to the point a community manager six months ago started a post about the difficulty to ask the question.
And here we are… still arguing it and picking peanuts out of sh*t trying to come to a conclusion. That fact that this thread is still going strong proves the ending is contentious and should be looked at and altered with any of the dozens of suggestions here. Simply removing flashbangs and putting a cap on CW (cant spawn any more if there’s already 4 stomping about) would be enough for me.
I DO NOT want fort brokenrecord repeated here please.
I feel you on these videos. Yesterday I played one match of convo on legend and then cata.
The legend one was absolute madness, we were in the finale for over 10 minutes chain ressing, I died once to blightstorm spam whilst trying to res. After that, I ran out of ammo and nobody else was shooting specials. There were constant gunners and blightstorms with huge packs of SV. Most players took ~3k damage (I took ~900, more than I took on a legend true solo I did last week). When just carrying a finale is harder than true soloing an entire level on the same difficulty you know something is out of whack.
I played cata next and it was much easier, no issues really at all, I don’t think anybody downed and it was finished in a fraction of the time.
It’s difficult to parse the difficulty of things because the perceived difficulty of a level depends a lot on the competency of your team. That said, I do think convo when it goes bad is easily a cata level challenge which can badly mess up all but the strongest of leg teams. Throw it at a borderline team like I was with and they just get ripped apart.
I feel the biggest question on my mind is why CoD is so difficult for what is essentially the second map in the game. Yeah, I get it’s legend, legend’s supposed to have a sense of difficulty, but it’s clear people are struggling on CoD more than late game maps like Festering Ground, Skittergate, Empire in Flames etc etc.
Sure, maybe the playerbase of legend these days aren’t just used to such a steep spike in difficulty, but you’d think from a natural progression standpoint the difficulty across maps in the core set would naturally go up with Skittergate reasonably being the hardest to deal with. But that’s not the case, a lot of maps can be cake-walks, players understand what to do and can go at their own pace. CoD feels like that cake-walk until the very end where the difficulty just takes a skyrocket and becomes pure (no pun intended) chaos which makes it very hard to co-ordinate in things like quick play or with bots do to having the ability to communicate or track where everything is at once.
The other “terror-events”, hell even Old Haunt’s end event are much more forgiving than CoD’s end event, yeah, groups wipe on stuff like Old Haunts as well but the options you’re provided to stop that wipe are much more team friendly than dealing with CoD’s “just drop down” and be overwhelmed by endless spawning hordes.
I’ve been playing for a while with my friends on Legend difficulty and we usually finish the maps successfully. We very rarely succeed on Convocation of Decay, which is by far the hardest map. I find the continuous stream of specials and Chaos Warriors very hard to handle. I know it is Legend and it is supposed to be hard, but the end event of this map is significantly harder than any other, it’s poorly balanced in regard to others. I mean I rather do Skittergate which is supposed to be the end boss. I think the end event of Convocation of Decay should be made slightly easier to be more in line with the other Helmgart maps (it’s the second one).
I was talking about the Convocation finale difficulty tweak in the Grail Knight patch (Patch 3.0) - where the change was not listed in the patch notes. That was the patch that made Convoc’s finale significantly more difficult (and when the complaints started, hence this poll post).
I don’t remember the Convocation difficulty tweaks done in Patch 2.0 (WoM) to be significant enough to cause complaints. The Patch 2.0 “terror events now scale with difficulty” change was mostly well-received, IIRC. Patch 2.0 was released Aug. 2019 while this thread was made on July 8, 2020, only around 2 weeks after Patch 3.0 (released June 23, 2020), which is around the time the complaints started coming in.
Hmm seems I indeed missed the context. Anyway as far as I’m aware the convocation has been pretty messed up since the 2.0 patch came out. I feel like some of the initial complaints were shadowed by how overpowering most of the beastman enemies were which also did appear in the initial convocation end event before beastmen were relegated to specific maps.
^^^^ DING DING DING! This lucky bleeder wins a pumpkin!
I rest my case.
You quote a comment that talks about how end events have been changed over time to support your point that Convo has been the same forever. Then you also completely ignore a whole bunch of comments talking about how end events - including convo - have changed over time. Wut?
I don’t really know what you are trying to prove with this? My point always was that the event has changed massively since the launch of the game while you say it has never been touched.
Oh so suddenly its an issue of not being able to complete the map? gotcha.
That’s so bad it’s funny. Besides, I’m pretty sure you discounted the idea of end events ever being changed apart from small changes in patch notes here and there, when you’re forgetting the biggest single change to all terror events which was made with the 2.0 update. End events have never been tougher to my knowledge prior to that update.
Didn’t forget and didn’t have a problem with it either.
That patch also introduced the stagger mechanic which was the #2 reason why WoM got so much hate. The first being Weaves obviously.
To me, I didn’t even notice the difference in CoD before or after 2.0 so in my opinion whatever change they did to it was absolutely negligible.
I’ve said this 100x and will continue to say it until I’m blue in the face but I can clear CoD any day of the week and, in fact, have gotten it almost every single day in the last couple of months in my solo legend QP runs.
Enchanter’s Lair, on the other hand, is pretty rough with 3 random players. I don’t clear that one on Legend as much as I do Convocation. That’s still the only map I haven’t cleared on Cataclysm. I’m in no rush going back to it as the only reward in completing it on cata is a commendation chest and that’s not worth playing that map with 400 ping 
There’s nothing wrong with Convocation. There is something wrong with the community crying for nerfs and trying to turn Legend into the new Champion.
I would pay $60 for a copy of the OG Legend AFTER the ranged meta was removed. At least there was some excitement and challenge to it. TBH, if Convo gets nerfed, this game is done because y’all won’t stop. You’ll be asking for Cata to be nerfed into Legend.
If you want to blame anyone for why the game is going downhill, you need to look no further than the mirror.
Kruber out.
Hard to believe, considering Convocation was even more insane than it currently is. I remember it pretty well. Was fun, but absolutely unbalanced in comparison to other end events or to the map itself.
And Convocation before 2.0 was a couple slave rats crawling towards you.
Are you talking pre-WoM?
I had a lot of fun with that version (which was also one of the most stable) but it was way way easier than what we have now. It’s remembered as the dodge meta, and legend games where 4 uncoordinated people breezing through the maps almost indipendently from each other.
It was also before the rework of terror events, so most of those were easy.
How about you show us the video of how you do it?
Record a full book final event of Legendary Convocation of Decay with bots and share it here. In fact, you can even make several videos of it since it shows up in QP so frequently for you.
Shouldn’t be that hard, should it?
The only way this could be a more typical “SirKruber” post was if you went on a brag about how great you are at 500 other games and how that is somehow relevant to the discussion at hand. Outside of that it has everything else: Completely ignoring other people’s arguments like nobody said anything contrary to what you said, taking things completely out of context (whether it is deliberately or due to bad reading comprehension I don’t know - the person you quoted even said you misunderstood his point), responding as if somebody made an entirely different argument instead of the one that was discussed at the moment (as if the specific argument we were talking about was the level of the difficulty instead of whether it was changed), an “if you disagree with me it means you are just bad” (you guys just can’t handle legend Convo), and all wrapped in a completely misplaced air of superiority as you accuse us of your own faults.
It’s like you percieve a different reality than the rest of us. I don’t think I ever met somebody on this forum - nay, the entire bloody internet who was more aggravating to have a discussion with. And I’m the sucker who just can’t help himself replying to these posts.
Your reply to this one is also going to be 100% predictable: You’ll whine about an ad-hominem (as if you didn’t start it) and take a victim role, ignore everybody’s arguments (again), basically restate your claims once more, and reply to arguments nobody is making and / or accuse us of just not being good enough at something (probably unrelated to this discussion).