you’re letting them do it. i don’t need to be in your games to know that the melee in your team are literally waiting for them to kill stuff.
Even j_sat said under his new video that beam staff needs to be toned down after running Legend with Twitch interventions with it. It’s just ez mode.
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lol what. trueflight burst is excellent at taking down chaos warriors in multiple scenarios. you can do a heavy strike and shotgun trueflight and he’s dead. you can tag him and let fly, it will sometimes kill it and another heavy around. it’s great to use when the battlefield is messy and you need to save your squishy teammates from a heavy strike. do you even elf?
there is NO way a sienna can handle 4 chaos warriors in a patrol along with all their adds as efficiently as heavy melee.
i feel like i am a broken record here. the people moaning about sienna don’t seem to know the burst and carry potential of heavy melee builds. sienna is pretty terrible against multiple armoured targets, she takes forever to down one without the use of her flaming skull, which btw, if you have used it, doesn’t always kill what you want to kill. she can’t just run up to a stormvermin, one shot it, follow through with 4 more one-or-two shots on multiple chaos heavies.
she’s great if you want to play a slow, attrition, melt-everything-slowly-while-party-looks-on kinda playstyle, but if you do encounter me in runs i’ll show you why sienna’s not as good as everyone makes it out to be.
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right because people running ahead 50 meters is probably " me letting them do it " instead of a broken game mechanic because i totally want them to take all my fun away .
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eh, i give up trying to convince you that your party playstyle is causing the dominance. i usually chain run champion games every night, and never once have i seen a sienna that can kill as fast as i can. they try of course, but as i said, the wizard is way too slow against a constant flow of multiple armoured/shield targets, and cannot deal quickly with thick hordes spewing from multiple entryways fast enough.
you can continue believing that sienna/dorf is the most OP broken ranged mechanic, and i’ll continue believing otherwise. let’s agree to disagree.
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Nice argument. So every balance regarding topic on this forum has to be pointless. Well, even in every game. A small hint for advanced statistic pseudoarguments: next time, compare the number of postings made about that topic with the number of humans on earth. Do you really want to have your class be nerfed because of 20 ppl out of 7000000000? Sounds far more impressive and uses the same faulty logic.
People bring arguments and all what comes from the mage-isn’t-op-well-at-least-at-long-as-I-main-it players are excuses like well, who cares about balancing, fluff is more important; he is weak in his early game so it’s ok to be op the vast majority of the playtime; She needs equipment to be op; Tiny nitpicking about minor aspects of the arguments; You just let her be op by your playstyle; It’s just whining.
Yep, every critic about one’s favorit spec is just whining 
We’re not talking about the scoreboard here, neither are we talking about some first time vermintiders on recruit not being able to keep up. We’re talking about topper tier players bringing reasonable arguments about balancing.
It’s okay to to have another opinion, even when it’s biased because your precious favorit is the topic. But denying every person’s rationality who thinks differently than you is just pathetic.
That’s ONE way to handle criticizm, not THE way 
I agree.
I agree on parts. She isn’t really useful on chaos warriors beside her F having luck. CW encounters are the few occassions where the party doesn’t feel useless.
No she isn’t fast, but she takes high threat situations far easier than most. On Hunger in the Dark on legend, our Sienna literally soloed a whole Stormvermin pat last night. Just shotgunning them down a long corridor, running back with dagger-speed one time and repeat. Took it longer than melees would need? Yes, but not much. Was it risky? Not at all (beside counting down the horde timer; but who cares about hordes). I see, it’s a specific example. And it doesn’t mean she soloes every skaven pat. But well, she could.
It’s not like there aren’t other ways to beat the game. But saying xy isn’t op because you can always try the gimped yz-way doesn’t seem right either. When we let Sienna do the job, it’s not because we couldn’t, but because we shouldn’t. Sure we have roles based on class+gear choice in this game. But when one setup is the best role for a vast part of the gameplay, then it’s neither fair, balanced nor fun for the other 3 players.
I’m not sure what exactly needs to be tuned down. The awesome mobility with the dagger? The far to weak venting mechanic? The overcharge cost of some spells? The heat sink trait mechanic being too strong on some spells (number of possible crits per overheat ratio). I don’t know. I don’t think she is broken, but at least op. I don’t want her to be nerfed into oblivion, as I love to play her myself. But some tuning needs to be done.
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easily fixed with Natural bond. I was venting without issue long before level 20… being decent at damage avoidance also helps.
It was possible in V1 if your team covered you well and you were highly aware of your surroundings. People seem to forget easily.
As for the heat wipe, they could just do like they did with elf level 25 talent… (instead of recovering 50% max ammo it recovers 20%. Well, by description anyways… currently it’s still working as old version) they could just cut it down so instead of heat to 0 it only drops half of your overcharge.
Sienna has always been a ranged focused hero, even in V1, generally only resorting to melee if your team let things get that close. Shoot, vent and dodge, shoot, repeat. venting only does damage if your overcharge is too high (in both games) and in V1 regrowth and bloodlust could top your hp up pretty quick depending… like regrowth on a beam staff vs a rat ogre for example… and it was green hp, none of this temp hp… Sienna has and always will be shoot first melee as a last resort type of character by design, with unchained probably being one of few exceptions to this. Granted, you can play her melee primary if you want, and that often happens in modes with friendly fire if your team movements are so uncoordinated as to often not allow you to safely engage at range without damaging them. at that point the best thing you can do is pull out a sword instead of just getting frustrated in the back line unable to help because of no clear shots.
yes, this scenario illustrates what i mean. it’s a very perfect patrol in the doorway scenario with no other threats, that the party chooses to let her do it that way because it is safe, no risk. if i were in that game personally i would be spamming hagbane at them to cc stunlock and then finishing up with heavy strikes while sienna’s doing her thing too.
but that’s what i’m trying to contest here. let’s be clear, xy = sienna/ib, and yz = heavy melee.
the assumption is yz is gimped, but i’m trying to say it’s absolutely not. players who can wade into the thick of the fight and excel, are rewarded greatly. this is the risk-reward ratio that imo, is balanced.
the problem to me is that most people see the safe, ranged way as the only option for safety. imo, killing things faster is safer, because less threats can pile up suddenly.
i’m worried because calling for a sienna/ib nerf when playstyles may actually be the issue, is going to negatively affect the balance of the game.
i just want players to show that they see perspectives from different sides of the coin before screaming for nerfs.
sigh Here we go again… the vermintide community DEMANDING it get shot in the foot.
Look even aggre, yes a high level sienna with crit weapons, the correct build, the correct traits, never has to vent… so?! she is only powerfull now (not OP, there’s ins’t a career that can’t do legendary just fine so don’t exagerate , you don’t NEED a sienna to beat legendary) BECAUSE she can spam. Ignoring the fact battle wizzard and unchained are not only underpowered but downright brokenly bugged in some respects (like if you get pushed to max overcharge on unchained by a killing blow, after you’re ressed from down you will instantly blow up and die on champ+). If FS are going to tone down pyro don’t do it before 1) reworking the other two to be a choice instead of playing pyro as the only decent career and 2) take a look at the current overcharge mechanic.
Again Orange overcharge REALY should not damage you, red ok, i can concede it should, you screwed up, or got into a desperate situation where you had to go into the red, fine, make it a penalty, but balancing around orange?! really? also if the idea is for her to go into meele when at red as to avoid damage and vent over time naturarly… sure , except you get a movement and attack speed debuff when you are in the red… with a horribad arsenal. Dagger is only good right now because the charge attack is bugged and can infinetly AoE stagger.
Ooooooon the other hand , looking at both BW and Pyro getting lvl 25 talents that vent, and unchained doing it naturarly, i’d assume the intention was that with proper management the idea behind sienna is to ALLWAYS use her ranged weapon and ONLY meele in the most dire of dire situation (like needing to blockdodge a boss). If that is the case then yes her ranged arsenal should and does atm do everything. And not just the beam, sure beam might be overtuned (and the LMB hold is bugged but that’s being adressed) but fireball, conflag and bolt ALSO can do single target head sniping and horde clear they just do it worse than beam ATM the only staff that can ONLY horde clear and doesn’t have the versatility of sniping / boss dps is the flamethrower
“finesse of her character”
“finesse”
Sienna, the flamme wizard you used to spam autoaim headshot lighting bolt with the alt fire of the bolt staff in VH1 to clear entire map from every special spawn.
Then it was nefred, and the fireball staff became the brocken one so you could nuke every patrol in one hit.
The VH2 Pyro beam staff crit build is unironically the less braindead “meta” build this character ever had.
They’re just salty because every other high DPS melee heroes got nerfed. THATS THE ONLY REASON the mage seems OP.
Instead of trying to get another character nerfed they should go complain to Fatshark about all the characters that got castrated in the launch patch.
Speaking as someone who has been maining Sienna in V2, oh boy does the beam staff need some downsizing. As much fun as I have soloing chaos patrols on champion without them even getting into melee distance, that should not be possible.
That being said, please of please Fatshark: Do not do that thing you sometimes do where you hear “minor tweak” and go “BETTER NUKE IT FROM ORBIT, IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE”
Yeah,I noticed that too. Beam staff Siennas everywhere,doing ff to me all the time,because she saw two slaves. I like playing Sienna but I don’t use beam staff because it feels like cheating.
No it’s not, you know it and you’re only telling that cause you’re still salty your favorite class got nerfed for the realease.
The beam staff need only one tweak :
Each damage proc from the beam need their own crit roll, instead of firing a beam of continious crit.
And for the matter of FF, the low damage of the beam is far less infuriating than BH and elves shooting at my back and removing between 10% to 20% of my hp when I’m playing foot knight.
I agree with most of what you said. But the Charged 1 loop seems to be on purpose. It worked in V1 aswell and has it’s downsides. The Charged even got nerfed in distance and push power if i’ve seen it correctly over my near 80 hours of dagger play. It has it’s downsides aswell, it takes long to charge, doesn’t kill fast and if you f*** up your timing you are pretty screwed.
I’m currently testing out Unchained on Mace and Beam Staff. Pretty strong i must say. It’s a nice mixture of tankiness and damage. After some scepsis on my part regarding the mace i fell in love with this thing. It’s completely viable. The overheat death explosion AFTER you insta-vent is pretty dumb and should be fixed ASAP. And Venting in this game hurts too much too early, i have to agree.
I don’t know where you got that from,I play each and every character pretty much equally and the only classes I don’t like are slayer and shade.
I mostly play unchained with a flamethrower or bolt staff. Beam staff feels like cheating because it does everything the other staffs do,but better and with infinite range. Stagger,boss melting,special killing,horde clearing - if you want to go for optimal usefulness and versatility you have to take the beam staff. None of the “specialized” staffs have the advantage over BS in any field.
So stop projecting your own “saltiness” over whatever you’re salty about, on me,okay?’
Beam can snipe and kill specials better than Bolt, control hordes better than Conflag, kills hordes better than the flamethrower and fireball, and is the best staff for killin’ bosses.
It’s 2 good
It generates tons of heat, except beaming stuff, which deals not penetrating single target damage while you tunnelvison. The whole balancing and map design leads to it’s “strongness” pretty much. Personally, i would LOVE to use Fireball Staff again, like in V1, but if you don’t play Battle Wizard it’s just too slow. And i don’t want to play Battle Wizard.
So, Beam Staff maybe seems strong in comparison, but it’s design alone (Versatile - Good for random groups, because you can adapt to your team and different situations) gives you advantages, regarding the overall design of the game.
It’s not (only) the staffs fault so to speak.
Then it’s the other staff which need a buff, not the beam that need a nerf. As I said the only overpowered aspect of the beam staff is when you go for crit pyro build with the talent that grant temp health on crit and the weapon trait that decrease overheat on crit because of how crit work with the beam attack. Currently you can fire continious beam of crit which will grant you unlimited temp health while removing all your overheat in less than 2 second. The reason for that is how crit proc is calculated with this specific weapon, instead of having a roll everytime an instance of damage proc, you have a single roll when you start firing the beam and if it’ts a crit then every damage proc will also count as crit.
Yep. Perma crit beam should be changed and beam blasts firing off without dealing damage should be fixed.