Say that to the no wind up rattling gunners waiting around a corner, the MLB gasrats, assassins, leeches and all the other unavoidable damage.
Another cool thing would be to give WHC curse resistance (for the whole team).
I don’t know about the numbers but 20% would still be balanced I think. The max curse resistance would be 53% so grimoires would still be a serious penalty.
WHC is weaker. But most of it is due to over nerfing. And its not just the WHC job itself it also extends into weapons which also affected it.
It needs the Health set to 125 which is halfway between Zealot and Bounty Hunter, since it is quite literally half melee, half ranged and a hybrid of both.
Also the Ult needs to be reduced down to 1 minute. There is no justification at this point for a 3 minute CD on it. Back in BETA when it was 100% crit rate for 8 seconds… YEAH a 3 minute CD was justified… but now its ONLY +20% and 6 seconds. So there’s no excuse at this point for a 3 minute CD… not when you have Pyro launching Burning Head every 40 seconds and wiping out a field of enemies or one shotting CWs… or Kruber Footknight knocking down everything in its path every 30 seconds.
CD on the Ult needs to be reset to 1 minute now.
Still at this point I’m pretty disgusted and have been getting More and more disgusted with Fatshark over the constant Nerfs that keep hosing over the WHC, and apparently without any thought and a serious double standard toward WHC vs… oh any other job in the game.
The latest one with the Falchion where they claimed they wanted to the AP to act as a Base but give a higher headshot multiplieer… but Nerfed ALL the AP… including the Headshot portion… again hosed over the WHC. Which was the primary reason for WHC to use the weapon in the first place since AP Headshots did a lot more damage for the WHC than other jobs, and having to do a Charged Shot which takes much longer just to do what you used to do with it…
Yeah I’m damn tired of Fat Shark either intentionally or unintentionally Nerfing a character that wasn’t exactly burning up the Kill Charts over and above any other job in the first place.
Its pointless to play a character or job that for some reason Fat Shark thinks is so Uber it needs to be nerfed repeatedly… and continuously even to this day.
So I’ve walked away until the day Fat Shark reverses their decisions and undoes the damage they keep repeatedly doing to this job.
If they wonder why no one plays this job anymore… well they have only themselves to blame.
This is probably one of the first and most important of many changes that WHC needs.
Pre-falchion nerf i could compete with other classes pretty well as zealot, the last 5-10 games the crossbow has worked wonders but ive been bottom of the scoreboard virtually every game despite pulling off clutches and performing well given the limited killing ability.
Feels like saltz has no hard hitting weapons anymore. I can still make the falchion work, but i’d rather play executioner sword kruber any day and the falchion’s my favourite weapon.
My main is WHC…
So look issues behind 100HP
- On low HP evtything feels damaging on you, even one lone paesant rat can screw your day if somehow end out of your sight.
- Due low HP, we are in constant fear of being hit, which reflect to our damage uptime
- LAG hits, anyone get lag hits from time to time, this is online game right? not much u can do when this happen, but belive me this feel less devastating on heroes with 125+ HP
- We are very prone to Friendly Fire (which makes allyes soemthimes worst than enemy)
Overall its not good idea to gief melee class only 100HP, some people will say, u generate alot of white helath, thats true, but damage we take bypass all health, and can instant gib you from time to time.
Yes, I agree… Fatshark does a good work with this game, but sometimes I don’t understand their motivation. For example nerfing WS and Huntsman ammunitions (longbow), when stronger careers like Pyro and BH still have infinite bullets. Good for them, I love to play these characters, but I don’t agree about the nerf.
Anyway sorry guys, my last off topic.
haha your crusade against pyro/bh continues
I LOVE Pyro and BH, while I “hate” WS… so no one crusade
I had a main WHC. I decided to switch to Zealot with flail yesterday. I have to say game just became 10 times easier and the gameplay is MORE FUN with his ulti.
Zealot with raiper is not bad…looks wiered but not bad:)
This may be simple stupidity but:
I main WHC but I have always been behind in damage and kills. I came to terms with it but today I just saw an Unchained Sienna hitting the dummy with her sword dealing 775 damage per hit while my Rapier did only 500. My Powerlevel was 85 above Sienna’s.
I’d say it’s okay if the Rapier would be a lot faster than the sword but that’s not the case.
I bet the Rapier’s attack cone is also narrower.
And while Unchained may “control” their increased attack speed WHC depends on crits for his talent.
Am I missing something or is WHC really that far behind as he lacks talents to buff his damage on a reliable level? (needs taggable enemies to die before or crits)
Especially as, lacking the extra hitpoints but still as “melee” career, you gotta dodge and block really much lowering your damage output significantly.
Btw, WHC is wearing a chainmail under his mantle, wears metal knee caps and his right arm is covered in armor plates. His overall armor is comparable to Mercenary Kruber’s. Just in case someone says he has to have lower hitpoints because he is not armored at all.
Damage is the only redeeming factor for WHC ( he has passive unlisted headshot damage bonus and a very good headshot damage talent on lvl 10 ). You really, REALLY want to hit the head with rapier.
Yeah, okay. I have no experience with legend yet but on champion WHC + Rapier feels like alternating between mediocre damage and overkill. Depends on if I hit the head or not.
It’s like I don’t know if that enemy in front of me will die in one or five hits like there’s nothing between that (exaggerating).
But I am still always going for the head; habit from VT1. Satisfying to stab a Stormvermin to the head like a madman and it dies instantly.
Agreed. Ult cooldown needs to be much less.
The ult cooldown is actually a remnant from beta when it could be exploited through a certain mechanism, and it was countered with increased cooldown. The exploit was fixed but the devs never decreased the cooldown out of pure neglect.
100% crit for 8s. Yeah, give that 3 minutes with the option to reduce it down to 2 minutes.
+20% crit for 6s. 3 minutes are not justified.
2 minutes is okay, may be reduced to 1:20 or changing the talent completely:
The less enemies are hit by animosity the shorter is the cooldown. Like if you use it on 10+ (or 0) enemies you have the full 2m cd while with only 1 affected enemy it gets down to 30s.
I also can imagine altering Animosity further: affects only a 120° cone, enemies are staggered and slightly pushed back (like a push block) and not knocked down. The affected enemies gain 20% more damage from all sources. 30s cd.
Instead of a talent for shorter cd you may get the 360° effect. But that’s only wishlisting.
I hate the knockdown effect. I only have 6s to maximize my damage output but i pushed the enemies away (first second lost), they are spread out (less hits per cleave) and i have to sort out the already dead ones from the only knocked down ones at a glance (empty hits).
WHC is a fine example of what is “wrong” with current class balance and why low HP may not have been an issue in VT1 but are in this game. Folks always proclamining “hurr durr you’re not supposed to get hit” are talking out of their arses, I have yet to see a video of someone who manages to pull that of. I know that WHC is supposed to be some kind of CC character with mobility and somewhat good special killing, but he IS a melee character and probably the squishiest of them all. Again, it boils down to: you can play him, but why would you want to? Okay, his killing power is maybe a tad bit better than, say, FK Kruber or IB Bardin, but these two have very good CC options and elite killing power also with their two-handed weapons, and not only a HUGE health pool but also damage reduction up the wazoo. I know from 1st hand experience that you can make WHC work on legend and he performs quite okay, but everytime I played him, you know, doing the witch-hunter dodge-dance and taking great care of not getting hit, I was thinking “I could play FK Kruber now, do the exact same thing and not have to worry about eating the occasional stray hit, as my temp HP I get from slaying this horde is more than enough to compensate.” Best evidence to this is that there’s soooo much discussion about how to make carreers like WHC or Battle Wizard Legend viable, you never see talk about how to make FK or IB viable, because they just are. You can always argue about skill ceilings and skill floors and whatnot, but the only time I ever thought WHC was handy if there were many elites and I thought “man, his passive +20% from tagging would be kinda neat”. His active is completely forgetable with its ridicilous cooldown and laughable effect, he has no special weapon selection, his “kill on crit headshot” shtick never seems noticable as with right equipment, most stuff dies in one or two hits anyways and since it is crit-headshots you are looking for, you can’t even rely on it. He has no armour, abyssmally little HP, no real way to boost his ranged other than getting more ammo (and not getting the increased dodge distance which imho is essential for not getting hit), and Salty’s melee weapon selection is arguably the worst in the game, maybe on par with Sienna’s. When you run with grims (which I don’t do anymore since there’s no point), you’re pretty much forced to run with curse resistance to get MAYBE enough HP to withstand a second blow.
The whole thing with “low hp/armour” carreers needs to be reconsidered. I mean, Ranger Vet Bardin is surprisingly squishy (which he shouldn’t be imho), but he has really good ranged weapons (realistically, it’s grudge-raker or gtho) and can make almost any melee weapon work (one handed hammer and axe are very good in his hands), he can obliterate anything from afar and pick of leftovers relatively easy in melee. Same goes for battle wizard, she is as squishy as WHC but has at least a mobility skill that allows her to escape and her CC is actually pretty good, even though I am very vocal about her passive needing some rework to be on par with Pyro or Unchained.
tl;dr: WHC has no role he can fill, any CC you might want to do can be done alot better by zealot, any elite and special killing alot better by BH. He may do a little bit of anything, but his low health-pool and quirky, unreliable abilities just make him a really bad choice. Only saving grace is the extra tag damage.
Its ALSO an example of why the melee weapon Nerfs ONLY hurt WHC and Zealot… ie… the ones that never needed any Nerfing.
The Falchion nerf was a good example. That ONLY affects Zealot and WHC… becuase the Bounty Hunter Kills Elites with Ranged combat… so in essence ALL they did with any melee weapon nerf was make the Bounty Hunter STRONGER… and the other two Weaker.
Sometimes the decisions that are made have me wondering if Fat Shark is smoking Crack.
The Nerf to the Ult for WHC was one of those… the same HP as Bounty Hunter is another. The Rapier Alt-Fire Nerf was another since this was supposed to be the Signature Weapon of the WHC. The Accidental Nerf of the Axe’s cleave in 1.05 hurt both Zealot and WHC…
The Weapon nerfs need to be reversed… As does a the Ult Nerf, and lower health.
If Fat Shark needs to Nerf any given Saltzpyre job… then those need to be pointed a the Bounty Hunter… not WHC OR Zealot.
Because neither the Zealot NOR WHC are overpowererd in any way shape or form. If anything its the opposite.
I don’t know who up there is making the decisions about the Saltzpyre jobs… but whoever they are… They’re not very good at it.
There is more of course… obviously the Ult for WHC needs a rethink, and the lower health needs to be re-thought…
And a total reversal of the previous weapon nerfs… due to this little circle jerk with hosed up the balance between ALL of Saltzpyres melee weapons when it was very good originally in Beta.
I suppose I should repost this which is from another thread… to give a little more detail on how it came about
You know I should probably give you an idea of just how far this circle jerk goes and how this chain reaction hosed up the Balance of ALL the Saltzpyre melee weapons and where it comes into play.
We’ll start with Step 1.
Step 1. The Alt Fire Rapier pistol nerf…
Back in Beta the Rapier’s Alt Fire Pistol actually did full damage out to about where the Brace of Pistols did. It wasn’t really a problem either. Mostly because of how clunky the thing is to use. So you missed a lot at any type of medium range… still anything within about 10-15 yards you could hit and kill.
One problem… The Bounty Hunter’s passive…
The Alt-Fire Pistol is counted as a Melee Kill… not a ranged kill.
(Previously this weapon was not usable by the Zealot, and may not have been by BH either. I don’t remember whether it was or not)
So… the Bounty Hunter could reset their Crit Passive at range just by killing something with the Alt-Fire Pistol… and then instantly have their Crit back. Which was not intended since it was supposed to be a Melee kill to do it with.
So they nerfed it so it only did max damage out to where it is now… so it couldn’t really kill anything at Range anymore… (which is stupid given that it has a 2-3 second reset on it so you’re not going to run around racking up massive ranged kills with it no matter what).
Rather than, you know be smart like… Make it a WHC weapon ONLY …or locking out the Alt-Fire portion on BH…
…or you know… making the pistol shot count as ranged damage so it didn’t DO that. Which would have been the smart play.
Instead they took out this HUGE balance factor of the Rapier vs Falchion out of the equation.
(vs Two handed sword eventually)
So now its just clunky, pointless, and little more than a gimmick.
Step 2. Patch 1.05 Accidental Nerf.
Patch 1.05 was indeed necessary. They had miscalculated the Hero Power threshhold so all weapons were >doing more stagger, cleave, and damage than they were supposed to be doing… and Half the jobs in the >game relied on the intended Power level… or their passives and skills would have no actual effect on the >game. So half the jobs in the game became useless until they fixed the power level to be where it was >intended
Unfortunate Side Effect: The Axe which never had much cleave in the first place, and only provided minimal horde clearing ability… lost ALL of it. So whenever you used the Axe… it would get you killed in a Horde.
So as to where there used to be a smooth transition between the Axe, Rapier, and Falchion with regards to their capabilities (Horde Clearing vs Armor Piercing vs Shield Users vs Elites)… The chain was broken, because the Axe no longer provide even the minimal horde support it used to… leaving only the Rapier and Falchion as survivable weapons in a horde and breaking the smooth transition between them all.
Step 3. The Two Handed Sword Buffs…
Greatly increased the viability of the Two handed Sword… one problem… They forgot to increase the Reach… so it was STILL the same reach as the Falchion and less Reach than the Rapier. So all those improvements were for nothing. Since the Falchion had similar cleave and stagger and was much faster. So it made a better Two handed Sword than the actual 2 handed Sword.
Problem number 1… This of course made the Falchion seem like it COULD do anything and was better at everything than every other weapon… (See Step 1, and Step 2… to see why this magically and mysteriously poofed into existence… and wouldn’t be a problem had those two things never happened)
Problem number 2… IF they actually DID increase the Reach… the Two Hander would FAR overshadow the Rapier’s main job as a Horde Clearing Weapon. BUT… that wouldn’t be a problem had they not NERFED the Alt Fire Pistol Shot in the first place as that would still be a balance factor for the Rapier and no one would care.
So even if the Rapier had lost its Primary Spot at Horde Clearing to the Two Handed Sword… It still could kill targets at Range where none of the other weapons could. Hence Fat Shark COULD extend the Reach of the Two hander to be longer than the Rapier… and not the idiotic reach of a dinky little Short Sword (Falchion).
(And likely Kruber’s would give the Halberd a run for its money too)
Step 5: The Falchion Nerf…
…and the last straw that finally broke the back of the Melee Weapons. With the only weapon that HADN’T been Nerfed left… of course its able to do everything. QUICK NERF THAT TOO… Its UNbalanced…
Oh wait… its really not.
The ONLY reason the Falchion looked that was was because of… Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, and Step 4, which lead to Step 5.
We come to the end of this big Circle Jerk…
At this point the ONLY way for Fat Shark to fix all this… is to GO BACK and Remove ALL the previous nerfs that were either intentional due to bad decision making… or accidental due to the necessities of the Patch.
Because right now the Balance between the Weapons which Started out really good…
Is now in the Tank…
EDIT: They basically screwed themselves because they had the right balance from the beginning… and then screwed it all up.]