Victor Saltzpyre - Vampire Career

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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I always wanted to see a playable vampire in this game, slay some rats and northlanders, “secure the cattle”, as we used to say in Sylvania back in day. I had hope to see him (or her) as a separate hero, but as Fatshark mentioned - they have no plans for the new heroes. This is why I suggest Victor, as a hero, who can become vampire more likely than others. Elves and dwarfs, due to lore, are bad candidates for becomming undead creatures of the night. Kruber is already Grail Knight, and Sienna does not really fit into classic vampire gameplay as most people see it. As some already might know, blood kiss transforms not only body, but the very mind of the victim, so he will partly loose his former personality. This can cause some problems with his battle comrades, but during the End Times vampires had fought on the side of the Order. Vlad von Carstein was restored in his rights as an Elector Count of Sylvania and helped in a battle with chaos hordes. This is why, I think, in this particular circumstances, Ubershreik four can tolerate vampire, specially when taking in consideration of who he was. Also, we had vampire in lore, who had their dark nature under controll, and served the righteous cause - Jerek von Carstein. This can justify vampire in our ratslaying team. Also, vampires of von Carstein bloodline can walk under the sun, so the weather - not a problem.

What I suggest for mechanics: there can be several ways to represent vampire, as giving him buffs for drinking blood, decreasing health for not killing enemies and so on. I’m not sure about creating new feeding mechanic, but it will be nice to see some sweet animations, allowing ou not only feast on filthy ratman and northlanders, but also drink some tasty blood from a human beings (your party members). Ult can be either a spell from Lore of Vampires, or Beast Form, that will incease power, attack speed and protection, but Victor will suffer from bloodloss if not constantly killing things or drinking blood. Not sure about ranged weapons, but it can be a unique signet ring with a glove, that will allow him to fire projectiles, infused with dark magic, like Gaze of Nagash spell. Melee weapon - probably haudegen. This sword fits pretty well to vampire. Would love to see your ideas. Let’s inspire Fatshark to make this dream live. Victor von Carstein must arise to show undeath to petty chaos worshipers.

P.S.: Sorry for my bad Reikspiel.

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Maybe something like a blood système like the heat for distance weapons, in that case, use blood for each distance attack and when your are at 0 you loss life while when you are above 50% you gain live per time.

When you kill an enemis you gain 5% and when you kill while in ult you gain 10% of your blood bar.
And maybe a système like >50% you gain +15% distance dmg, <50% you gain 15% melee dmg.

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I don’t think the rest of the Ü5 would work with a vampire. And how the engine is design I’ve come to have serious doubts about undead as well. Given they would be immune to poison, many forms of stagger, headshots, potentially have unlimited stamina etc.

While I understand the wish to see vampires in the game, even if I myself favors werewolves more, I think that undead would need so many special rules that it wouldn’t make sense to include them in VT2.

Maybe in VT3.

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Well, this is a common statement, and when it comes to an emergency, even enemies can work together. During End Times even the Emperor worked with Vlad, so they might tolerate him. (Saltz already tolerating Grail Knight).

What about special rules… Grail Knights are also increadibly powerfull in the lore, warriors with endless vigor and so on. But in-game we don’t have the full representation of his true powers. Vampire can also be simplyfied.

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There is a big difference between a GrailKnight and an Undead
A fairer comparison would be Dark Elves and Undead

The community would most likely not be that happy if we get VampPyre as they would prefer to get Genevieve

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Can’t understand why people love this character so much. There is nothing that special about her, I read some books. But as long as FS does not want to make a new character, most likely, we will not see her. And I doubt that VT3 will ever come also.

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Salts would literally kill himself thats not gonna work at all

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“they”

I think he succeeded in his mission.

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This is not really how it works with vampires. The curse of vampirism have great influence on the human mind. Victor will not stay they same person. He will look at his former life and observe the memories from different angle. Spend some time to realise, who he was, and what have become. Faith will loose value to him, like all former alliences, friends. Some of the newborn vampires have enough willpower to resist the blinding bloodlust and act logical. This may lead to him not fighting to death with comrades and decide to use his new powers against common foe. Also vampire sire that will help him would be great. Katrine can be such a character, since we do not know about who or what she really is.

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Considering the fact we already have careers that drastically change the characters in terms of lore/lore power - I really don’t care about “it won’t fit into the game/lore” arguments. They’re pretty standart at this point and conservative people are always killing all the fun.
Cool idea, also suits the 4th career theme pretty well if we perceive it as something like “great lore powerup and deviation, something really new”. At least that’s how it was for Grail Knight.

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Yes but u5 is pretty much blessed by sigmar in some lesser extent (righteus stand for example literal sigmar intervetion and not just keeling over from nurgle presents). Overall bad idea that completly dont work into context of U5

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Grail Knight is literally blessed by Elven God, not Sigmar, dwarf and elf have their own existing gods. Sigmars interveting on the Temple does not mean, they have his blessing. But if they really do, that changes nothing, since Sigmar himself worked with a vampire, during the End Times and considered him as an elector count. There are much more lorebreaking moments in the game, such as Kerillian transforming into high and dark elves. Should I explain the attitude to dark elves? Everyone hates them for their cruelty and worshiping to evil bloody gods. But no one says a word to an elf, when she “transforms” into shade. And Slayer dwarf… slayer - point of no return for dwarf. If he have become a slayer - he can’t change career, he should die to pay for his sins. Game does not stick to lore strict already, and vampire will be more logical, than some already existing things.

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The career are more of alternate ending:

Kruber started as a Imperial Soldier and get 3 possible promotion:

  • Mercenary: Try to get more money (Enter the employ of Saltz)
  • Hunter: Kill Chaosy thing (Enter the employ of Saltz to kill them)
  • Footknight: Want more glory (Enter the employ of Saltz to kill them)
  • GrailKnight: During the End Time his accomplishment get him noticed by an Elven Godess and she give him her blessing. This career is different from it’s starting point (being after joining the U5 (His motive to stay in the U5, and being employed is to kill ratties for the Holy bath water)

Bardin started as a Ranger:

  • Ranger Veterant: Simple evolution of his start career (Still on the search of Karak Zorn, atonement for his shame)
  • IronBreaker (IronDrake): Go back to your charge (One’s shame must not stop them from being Dutiful)
  • Slayer: He must atone from his past shame (He start being more reckless and doing what is right)

The next career will be centred around his past/shame, either by saying that the shame he got can’t be dealt with by chasing a wild goose chase, forgetting it or dying but by Leading the remaining people of the Karaks as a Thane (still special enough while not to much to be stuck in the hold like the Runesmith)

Kerrilian started as a Waywatcher:

  • Waystalker: Simple evolution of her start career (Still serve her people the way she know)
  • Handmaiden: Handmaiden of Isha are protector of the High Elves realm (like a Waystalker is for the Wood elves)
  • Shade: Shade are the protector of Naggaroth (like a Waystalker is for the Wood elves)
    The problem with the way her career are that there is only 3 main Elves faction, leaving us either with sea elves or they will need to do a second career on the same Elves faction, maybe with a Wardancer

Sienna started as a Brightwizard, her career are on giving your self to Aqshi:

  • Battle Wizard: Simple evolution of her start career
  • Pyromancer: More control over her power
  • Unchained: On the Brink of killing yourself (literally a junky on a high)
    The problem with her career is that you can’t have a new career on the same philosophy (More or less control on Aqshy) and they will need to find more way to create a possible mechanics, maybe an Elementalist with Fire Elemental

Saltzpyre started as a Witch Hunter

  • Witch Hunter Veteran: Simple evolution of his start career (Staying in his order)
  • Bounty Hunter: Keeping the goal of a Witch hunter but not the strictness of the Witch Hunter order (Less strict, let Saltz being more free)
  • Zealot: Lose the Goal of the Witch Hunter but he keep the strictness of the WH order (Less freedom)

The next career could be around an aspect of the WH that wasn’t already explored, like the fact that they are Duelist, Judge, Doctor, Officer, Executioner and most importantly Vampire Killer
The Witch Hunter from Warhammer Fantasy/40K is inspired from Van Helsing (Dracula)

The new career will start from the point that the U5 have already been grouped (if they do the same as GrailKnight)

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i love how people is like “wooow they are no logical in this cause this is Warhammer and” just listen, if they are logic in your game how can you run skittergate infinit time, how can you kill a boss more than once, how can beastmen doesn’t attack chaos or skaven, how can you invoc Excalibur with grail knight ( are you arthur ?) f**** logic this is a GAME ! this is made to have fun ! can you have fun with a vampire ? YES !

so just keep your kiddy comment and let everyone enjoy the GAME

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If you need to use the End Times as an explination for something that I am pretty sure that you have little to stand on. The literal end of the world is way above the level of one Skaven Clan and parts of a Norscan tribe, with some Beastmen backup, running loose in parts of the Reikland. The Empire has faced way harder crisies before and still didn’t ally with Vampires (who have historically already tried several times to conquer the Empire by violent force. There’s bad blood - pun intended - between the Empire and the Von Carsteins.).

Also a Grail Knight is not nearly on the level of a vampire. While Bretonnia and the Empire skirmish, raids and fights some border wars now and then, they are both solidly on the same page as being non-Chaos humans dedicated to fighting off the likes of Skaven, Greenskins, Undead, Chaos etc. Fighting alongside a Grail Knight is no more strange than Salty could fight alongside a follower of Taal (Kruber) or a follower of Ulric.

The thing about special rules was primarily aimed at Undead as a faction to fight in the game, which has been suggested several times before. Yet all the same Grail Knight are living creatures who needs to breath, have a nervous system, experience sensations such as pain etc. the same way. Vampires works differently on many levels.

But yes, a weak vampire can absolutely work as a character if we only look at mechanics. But it will butcher the lore, so I hope GW would prohibit an addition like that.

Sigmar’s interventon surely means something. Once more, if you need to break out the End Times, then all lore discussion is pointless because the end of the world creates a unique situation far beyond the mess the Ü5 are clearing up.

As for Dark Elves and Slayers, yes, in terms of Slayers its a one way street however I don’t find it odd that Kerillian can have connect through dreams with Khaine. Its a stretch but I can live it this single inclusion. But I feel that if we start with adding more and more evil/“evil” characters to the game will not per necessity add much to the immersion and there are a ton and more of character choices that can be brought into the game before the evil/“evil” characters are introduced.

Now as you may know I am not adverse to having evil play in Vermintide. But I actually think that if we go evil, then all five will need to go evil. Its a round egg through a square hole if one goes evil and the rest just chill with it. The Ü5 are not fighting the Pactsworn because they are kind of chill with bad guys doing bad stuff.

You can have fun in the game, but I will argue for what I think makes sense and adds fun to the game for me and most others. I will argue against what I think grinds my gears.

Can I live with a vampire in the game? Absolutely. Will I keep playing the game if a vampire is introduced? Absolutely. Do I want a vampire character? No.

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Handmaidens of The Everqueen, not Isha, and they are personal bodyguard and messangers of Alariel. Not guardians of Hight Elves realm. There are several high elf orders, that can be called guardians, and non of them protect the whole Ulthuan. Waywatchers only guard the ways to Athel Loren and don’t mess around in the city. And Shades are considered feral by other Dark Elves, practising strange rites, drinking fermented blood with their tents made from the skins of their prey, as it mentioned in 7th edition. They have no connection with Naggaroth guardians at all. They survive on their own in small clans in the Blackspine Mountains. They may be even worth than vampires, because vampires drink blood to feed, and shades do it for pleasing perverted dark gods, that appriciate only violence. Being shade - is ideology, being vampire - not. Not all vampires are hungry for power and domination. Even amough von Carstein bloodline. Like countess of Nachthafen. So how can Kerillian end up with being shade and still be included into U5 and vampire can not? Makes no sense.

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The main province of the Empire is invaded by great forces of chaos, united with Scaven. Everyone in Ubershreik and Helmgart are getting killed and streets are overwhelmed with filth. This is pretty critical situation. End times are on the way. Some people may consider lesser evil as an ally in such situation. And vampire is a lesser evil for sure. And they are enemies to chaos and skaven as well. I mentioned about that in my post to Arthadaw that is above. Also I’ve told about shades and why being shade fits not good for Kerillian character. Connection to Khaine in dreams is not enough to become Shade or cosplay it.

About having fun: there are no such types of games, that allow you to play vampire. You can play it in strategy, but it is not the same. In warhammer games we always have basic WHC, warrior priest, bright wizard and so on. So vampire will pretty new idea after all. Not all of them are evil, and it is always interesting to observe character, who have enough willpower to defeat his dark nature and do something good, instead of beaing good from beginning and being rased to do good. Becomming vampire will make character deeper in my opinion.

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in any case, we don’t have the choice of what gonna be in this game since fatshark make what they want, if they want a vampire, they gonna make it and make a 2min cinématique like “see ?! that’s why a vampire join the troupes”

The only answer you can say to FT is “ok, we gonna deal with it”

if they want, we can even fight nurgle as a boss… soo just chill with any proposition, the lore is ok, but the only one with the power of changing lore and adapt everything (like a man become a grail knight just by drinking some shity thing) is fatshark

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I think Grail Knight Kruber is really far-fetched, the lore explanation is thin, and it’s not anything I’d personally would have put in the game. Regardless, I can accept GK Krub because he’s pretty fun gameplay wise (like others said is a reason to turn a blind eye), and - and this is important too - it doesn’t really push the lore too much. Sure, Krub becoming GK out of the blue is weird, but the rest of the Ü5 working with a GK is in itself is fitting and believable.

I feel that that last point does not really go for a Vampire, however. Although Salz being bitten by a vampire is a more likely scenario than Krub becoming a grail knight, the Ü5 accepting a vampire is waaaaaay less believable. Especially with things like Kruber’s history. And, like others said, the Empire allying with the von Carsteins in the End Times is not an argument for the Ü5 accepting a Vampire at this point in time. For the Ü5, this isn’t really the End Times yet. It’s “just” a skaven / norscan invasion, which in the Warhammer world is considered nothing more than a regular tuesday, basically.

The real question is: Why would the Ü5, specifically, ally with a vampire? To them, vampires are regarded the same way as skaven or Chaos worshippers. They’re just as destructive, dangerous, treacherous, bloodthirsty, and untrustworthy. They never heard of any interactions with them that weren’t hostile. The Ü5 teaming up with a vampire is just as crazy as them teaming up with a skaven or khornite berserker. I can’t really imagine an explanation - thin or otherwise - that makes that scenario believable enough to suspend disbelieve, no matter the cool potential gameplay ramifications.

And sure, when FS determines that Salz is a vampire now and the Ü5 are cool with that, we can’t do much else than “deal with it”. (Personally, I just wouldn’t buy that DLC.) But that doesn’t mean we can’t have an opinion about it, or that we can’t discuss it in this thread, which was specifically made for this very topic.

On another related note: Some people were talking about how the Ü5 accepting a Shade means they’d accept a vampire as well. But Kerillian never suddenly becomes a real Dark Elf. As per the official explanation, Shade Kerillian is just Vermintide 1 Kerillian switching to Khaine worship, who is an elven god that is in some measure worshipped by all the elven factions anyways. She isn’t retroactively turned in a naggarothian elf who lived her whole life drinking blood in skin-tents. I agree that is a bit of a stretch that the Ü5 wouldn’t have an opinion about her new outlook on life, but since they already put up with her assholish personality before I can kind of accept it for rule-of-cool and gameplay reasons. The same goes for the dark elf cosmetic items. Where she suddenly got the crossbows and why she exclaims “for Clar-Kharond!” I still can’t really say, however…

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Is it? We’ve got one Skaven Clan, parts of a Norscan tribe and an unknown number of Beastmen teaming up with these two. I’m sure there are thousands of them but if the Reikland army would get their asses moving and come around to fight them, odds are the Pactsworn would be matched or even outnumbered. The Empire is big and while the Pactsworn are numberous against the Ü5 I don’t think that they are very numerous in the grand scale of things.

I think there’s a reason for why the Pactsworn struck for fairly medium sized city in a, to my understanding, rather un-militarized part of the Empire, as opposed to attack some really big city like Altdorf or Nuln or try their luck in a part of the Empire with a more militant outlook and used to fighting off incursions and raids.

We don’t known how total the loss of life was. I don’t doubt that thousands of lives were lost but we don’t know how many managed to make a run for it or hide in the city’s buildings.

When we fight Halescourge, Lohner makes a comment in the briefing that Halescourge’s plague mist would cover the whole town and “bad for the rest of us”. I do think that this kind of hints that there are people hiding from the Pactsworn in Helmgart.

Not really. There have been much more terrible catastrophies before, including more devastating attacks from the Skaven, on the Empire. I’m not saying its not bad or that the affected people are somehow less dead or have their lives less ruined due to the scale. But this isn’t a threat to the Empire as a whole.

No one knowns that in the game.

Are vampires a lesser evil in this case? To me from what I know of Warhammer lore a vampire would seem to be just as much of a problem as the Pactsworn.

The Von Carsteins have a pretty poor history with playing nice with the Empire in the past and allowing a vampire to worm itself, or its minion, into the Ü5 could prove to be a problem just as large or even larger in the future. The example of Sylvannia, where Von Carsteins do rule and act as they please, makes for a case that maybe the Von Carstein’s goals and agenda do not match very well with the people of the Empire’s best interests.

There are no Warhammer games, no, but there are plenty of games with other settings that allow you to play a vampire.

It would be new, but so would playing more High Elf stuff for Kerillian, Ulrican stuff for Saltzpyre and so on also be. Given relatively lack of Warhammer Fantasy games in general, and non-strategy games in particular, vampires is just one of many parts that cries out for a good depiction.

Of course not, many can turn from evil to good. The issue is that vampire are an iconic enemy of the Empire, that the Ü5 are not exactly Sigmar’s best children (adoptive or born in the Empire) and that there are more plausible ways for Salty to be a “bad boy” without him being a vampire.

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