Victor the Fallen

Proposterous? Yes!
Heresy? Most certainly!
But inevitable?
…maybe?

So hear me out…

Victor’s past has returned to haunt him.

The Event

*In the battle at Castle Drachenfels, unbenounced to anyone in the group, Victor Saltzpyre was flanked by a vampire to his blind side, and while Victor managed to slay the fiend almost instantly thanks to his lifelong experience *
with the undead, he did so not before the creature’s fangs burrowed themselves into his flesh.

The Aftermath

*Victor’s mind, while back at Taal’s Keep, did not just wander the path of guilt instilled by Nurgloth’s voice inside his head, but also the biggest fear of a Witch Hunter, especially someone as devouted a follower *
*of Sigmar as Victor Saltzpyre. *
He should not have been surprised to face a Vampire in the very birthplace of the Sylvanian Vampire rule, the home of Otto von Drak himself, who married his daughter to the von Carstain Vampires.
A young girl, corrupted by Vampiric blight, just like back in Skaggerdorf where the aspiring Witch Hunter dealth justice to a girl just like her.
But these events could not be related! Could they…?
Did the little girl’s fate come to hunt him? Or did her undead kin come to revenge her? Who was she to them if not a mere initiate?
Was it all just feberish hallucinations caused by that foul Chaos lord’s mind magic? But he’s mentioned her, has he not?

His righteous zeal and his fears began a war against one another, and for the first time he felt doubt about his own just existence
His conviction allowed for no thoughts as heretical as the idea to become corrupted himself; out of all; not one of the most righteous and devoted Witch Hunters of the Reiksland!
Whatever happened in those mines, it must have been a dream too, the ambush by the Vampires and the Skaven, the merciless murder of a little girl, all of it!

Victor decides it best to lay down, a little rest will surely clear his mind, as he staggers into his room, his head throbbing, his mind racing and the wound where once was his right eye burning.

…Saltzpyre awakes, but it is dark. Has he slept all day? He feels much better now…

The Acquisition

After the purchase of the career, a mini-event unlocks inside Castle Drachenfels which has to be completed alongside the mission itself.
I’d love for it to be an actual vampire jumping him in a scripted attack you can’t avoid, where Saltzpyre automatically reacts with an attack after the bite, killing the vampire, but goes down himself too.
But I guess that might be too elaborate, so instead we could go with mechanics already well-established in the game, something such as:
Pick something up in a corner, maybe a note, your screen turns blurry and red and you hear a thud sound, to simulate the paralyzing pain of a vampire bite, then you go down and need to be picked up, maybe some voice lines too
like “what happened?!”.

  • I am sure you have guessed it by now, Victor has become what he most loathed, whether it was his inhuman zeal turning into hatred or his fate dealt by his past, that attracted the corruption, we may never know. -

The Outfit

To go with Fatshark’s system of settling the careers somewhere between the top and the bottom of the class hierarchy, I see Victor the Vampire somewhere below a lord and in heavy plate armor.
For a better picture on how I imagine his armor and armor only, I have added a few links:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/7/74/Mannfred_von_Carstein.PNG/revision/latest?cb=20150724201838

Maybe less fancy since he is not one of the lords.

The Kit

Playstyle:
The playstyle I imagine will revolve around typical vampire tactics in Warhammer.
I considered including necromancy but I don’t think the work required to add “pets” and the bugs it might introduce would be worth it for a single new career

Instead, I would like it to reward the player for being active and aggressive, but punish them for being passive or too defensive, with balanced damage output, survivability and utility.
The lack of a ranged weapon will severely limit high burst damage but magic helps retain the ability to deal with threats at a distance.
The AoE fear should just be enough to slightly increase the chances of surviving being cornered, with a longer duration than AoE knockbacks but less clutch potential than a dash.

Stats:

  • High Armor/DMG Reduction (scaling)
  • Medium HP
  • Low Stamina
  • High Stamina Regen

Equipment:

  • Only certain melee weapons like swords and axes, but also sword and shield.
  • No ranged weapon slot.
  • Magic can be used while holding a melee weapon and blocking or attacking with the melee weapon.

Ultimate

  • Winds of Magic Ultimate Bar (behaves like the normal ultimate bar)
  • Long range single target spell, costs little WoM (ranged button to activate)
  • AoE fear, costs all WoM

Abilities:

  • Blood Stacks
    Killing an enemy leeches their blood, granting a Blood Stack which charge your blade in a red glow, up to 10 stacks can be stored and don’t decay, each attack only consumes 1 stack to heal you (normal HP, not temp HP)
    when stacks are available.
    (To explain how the mechanics would play out, if you killed 10 enemies in 1 swing somehow, hitting a monster 10 times would heal you 10 times but not replenish any stacks, whereas if you kill 1 enemy with each attack,
    you would simultaneously consume a stack to heal and replenish the stack.)
  • Mist Form
    Upon getting knocked out, there is a very small chance to change into mist form instead, granting a phased state for a few seconds during which you can not be affected by anything
    and can not do anything but move at slightly faster speed. When leaving Mist Form you gain some temp HP.
  • Cloak
    After a few seconds of uninterrupted moving, you become slightly harder to detect, run faster and your next attack is a guaranteed crit. Cloak immediately drops when standing still.
  • Rip (Maybe exclusive to whatever vampire weapon FS might decide to give him.)
    Heavy attacks sunder the enemy’s armor by ripping a hole into it (bomb shrapnel effect), including super-armor, lowering its damage mitigation values. (Considering we currently have an anti-armor crisis, especially against bosses,
    this value might have to start off really low until the issue is fixed.)

Passives:

  • Immune to poison
  • Inversely scaling damage resistance, ranging from 0% when at 100% HP to x% when at 1% HP. (x will depend on Fatshark’s balancing)
  • Cannot receive healing from potions, med kits or other heroes’ abilities, but also cannot be wounded, but can go down as well as die subsequently. (No healing received to balanced the healing from blood stacks,
    no wounds to balance that he can’t receive heals.)

Hero Interactions

Victor’s new abilities and outfit would make the other 4 worry and ask question, but could be waved aside by “Nurgloth’s guilt trip seems to have hit him harder than the rest of us” and “is he actually straying from his path?”,
but without even the slightest reason to consider something more sinister.
However, depending how obvious his new abilities are, Victor might have to find excuses like “after proving my conviction in this test, Sigmar blessed me with these abilities”.

Either way, I think this could be a pillar for interesting new group dynamics where Saltzpyre evolves in his role as the outsider, with the other members infrequently questioning his new actions, words, abilities and outfits,
and him walking the balance between persuasive excuses, maybe even getting personal to push their guilt buttons, and snarky remarks and behavior to signal he does not want to talk.

1 Like

Victor becoming a Vampire would never be accepted by the others. I respect the amount of thought and work you put into this, but I just can’t help but feel it would simply not work in the group dynamic or make sense in the lore.

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Thanks, but I thought I actually explained that in the Hero Interactions part.
They simply don’t know and the struggle is for him to hide it and find excuses, counting on their reliance on him, and for them to accept the way he has changed, without actually knowing why he has changed and what he is slowly changing into.

Victor becoming a vampire - is a good idea. But you can’t just become a vampire after getting a simple bite or a scratch. Blood kiss - is a ritual, which is done on purpose and can be performed by a strong vampire. Some of them even unable to turn people into vampires, because of their thin blood. I described my thoughts on this theme in my old topic: Victor Saltzpyre - Vampire Career

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Remember, none of them know he got bitten or saw any vampires in the castle, he has always had a rough face and sometimes wears masks anyway. In essence, none of them have a clue what happened except for the psychological trauma they brought home from Nurgloth’s mind magic, so they really just assume Victor is not taking it well and slowly becoming nihilistic and maybe disillusioned or dark inside.

The only hit at vampire presence might be picked up by Kerillian, Sienna and Olessya in form of the presence of dark magic, and that’s where their tension comes in. They could add voice lines of them sometimes saying they are feeling a strange presence of darkness when Victor uses vampire magic.
But never would they assume it’s him because they are surrounded by darkness and have been given no reason that Saltzpyre would succumb to the dark side willingly, which he didn’t, he just got bitten.

So this supports the career:

Henrich_von_Carstein

“This can cause some problems with his battle comrades, but during the End Times vampires had fought on the side of the Order. Vlad von Carstein was restored in his rights as an Elector Count of Sylvania and helped in a battle with chaos hordes.”

But the ritual is a problem, however not an impossible one to circumvent. Nurgloth already was inside their heads, maybe the ritual was performed remotely with the help of that Chaos caster to corrupt the Ubersreik’s 5 or 4 it doesn’t matter from within.

I described the possibility of ritual also in my post. What can I say about Nurgloth is… Chaos is interested in corruption. Chaos corruption. But Chaos is agains curse of vampirism, because they hate vampires as much as mortals do. Souls of vampires have no use for the Chaos Gods and they have nothing to do with curse of the undeath.

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The question is how canon-friendly it needs to be, considering it is the End Times, which doesn’t follow canon as strictly anymore and where Kerillian can easily follow the gods of the Druchii.

Kaine is part of all of the Elven pantheon, Wood elf venerate are free to venerate all of them but it is usually Kournus (Hunt) and Isha (Wood/life/healing)

Dark Elf venerate the Underworld god while the High Elf only the Overworld

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I mean just imagine the possibilities to branch off without much effort, but into interesting territory.
Olessya could send them to new maps to investigate this mysterious dark presence, not knowing it comes from one of their own, And when playing as Saltzpyre you would know all along it is you they are looking for but you have to pretend it is not you, because your survival depends on them and they are still your friends.

If you want to go even further you could add certain vampires to the list of enemies trying to take the heroes down, whether FS actually ever make them an enemy faction or not. They could be participants just through the story and it would set the stage for a vampire DLC if FS ever wants to add one in the future.

It would broaden the game on so many fronts.
I think if we can get something as outlandish as a Grail Knight who doesn’t just come to be, we can get a vampire, considering turning someone into a vampire is much easier, and unlike the GK it would add fuel for further story development.

Do you want to play a deception game ?

Do you mean a Grail Knight as in Chosen of the Lady of the Lake or Grail Knight as in Bretonnian Grail Knight.

Grail Knight are just warrior that were chosen by a watery tart selling her bath water, it isn’t inherently hard to become one if you are a good fighter, prove your valour and are in the right place (I don’t think she can do it outside Athel Loren/Bretonnia)

Aren’t Blood Kiss something that Vamp do consciously ? Like isn’t it like in Bram Stoker’s Dracula where you become a thrall if you get bitten (Lucille iirc), but to become a Vampire you need to drink the blood of the Vampire (Like what happen to Mina)

Edit: IIRC the Von Carstein are the Dracula type Vampire

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In the vampire trilogy of books Vlad is reluctant to give Isabella the blood kiss and curse her. Even though he bit her and drained her close to death, she had to drink his blood too to become a vampire.

Although Vic as a vampire is something I’m really against - his faith in Sigmar and all that - I’m not against him becoming completely disillusioned and declared renegade by the order or something in a similar vein to Eisenhorn’s story.

If you haven’t read the Vampire Trilogy by Steven Savile or Eisenhorn by Dan Abnett they’re both great trilogies of books and well worth a christmas present to yourself

5 Likes

there’s also plenty of voicelines to suggest that Victor is very much at odds with the order and even just the storyline of the games and Saltz’s personality softening bit by bit throughout V1 and V2 show he’s definitely unorthodox by witch-hunter standards

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He shan’t fall for something so trivial. Only Tzeench may take him, when the time is ripe.

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Too outlandish for me, even though I like the idea. Considering that WP is THE most requested new carreer, as well as the most obvious one, it would be unwise to go for anything else, especially for something so fat out there.

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I’m not saying this twist in the story is completely impossible. As you said: Kruber becoming a Grail Knight out of nowhere was just as much of a stretch. The Ü5 working with a Grail Knight actually makes perfect sense, however, where the Ü5 working with a Vampire doesn’t make sense at all.

You did find a solution to that by making Saltz’s vampirism a secret, I know. But my objection to that situation is that him keeping it a secret would be very unlikely, with 2 mages & and a weave-attuned Wood Elf around. Especially if his new class uses vampiric themed skills and gear, him keeping the affliction hidden might become downright preposterous.

Your suggestion to build upon the story with Saltz becoming a vampire is also a problem, because his vampire class would be just one of the 4 alternative realities of what becomes of Saltz after the events in Übersreik. Those proposed missions of yours make no sense unless vampire Salz becomes hard canon.

And about the argument of how in the End Times vampires fought along with everybody else against Chaos: You shouldn’t forget that for the Ü5, they don’t realize they are in the End Times yet! As far as they know, this whole Pactsworn business is “only” just another invasion from Skaven and Norscans, A.K.A. just any old tuesday in the grimdark Warhammer universe. And none of the other Ü5 have any reason to trust vampires at all. None of them would know of a single instance of non-hostile vampires, whereas they know of countless instances of vampires attacking. Vampires are regarded by them exactly the same way as the Pactsworn are, even if they aren’t aligned with each other. The “enemy of my enemy being a friend” thing doesn’t apply here, because the enemy’s enemy has always been just as much of enemy. Kruber has a very traumatic history with necromantic forces, for example. The Ü5 working with a vampire makes as little sense as them working with an Orc or a Khorne-worshipper, regardless of those being enemies to the Pactsworn, because they are just as much enemies of the Ü5.

I can understand why people would think a vampire themed character in a game like Vermintide would be cool. But shoehorning one into Vermintide 2 / the Ü5 just would be way too jarring.

6 Likes

Just a heads-up, I have updated the “The Kit” section.

Well there we go, a tainted heal potion.
Either way it will have to be either intentionally or some of the former vampire inhabitants accidentally left something behind. :smile:

I see where you are coming from, but we already got a Zealot.
A WP, while I personally love playing all sorts of heavily armored fighters, would be just more of the same, IMO.

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Sorry what exactly are you referring to?
From the 5’s, or 4’s it doesn’t matter perspective, it is them against the entire dark world because seemingly nothing of the good world is left, right?

So while they would notice something to be off with Saltzpyre, they wouldn’t turn on him easily, after all they need him for their own and the world’s survival. They surely realize they survived their last defeat against only the Skaven with pure luck, what are their hopes of surviving now against the Skaven and 2 additional Chaos factions? I bet they would clutch every little bit of help they can get, even if it is someone even more foreign than an Elf is to a Dawi.
On top of that, they are not dealing with “a vampire” who got their own history and intentions, they are still dealing with Saltzpyre and how much of his original personality and will he actually lost would still have to be seen. (There’s an unused dungeon tower at the keep by the way. :wink:)

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