Lore, Careers and Questions

Adelion · February 15, 2021, 11:39am

EDIT: I changed the order a bit around as most of the career related questions are kind of outdated by new information. So the prior focus of the OP is now a place where all Lore posts can be seen on one screen. The rest of the old post can be found under the dashed line.

The stories cover a lot of different tales. Some concerning Bardin and Kruber, some about some new regions, lots of stuff about Kerillian and Victor, very little about Sienna. What they are leading up to is open for suggestion and theory crafting. Maybe it is a new campagin to play in, maybe just some general backstory.

This is just a scattering shot at different subjects, most already treated in similar topics. Still wanted to make a new one -_-

As the forum advised against posting in the General Vermintide 2 hub, I’ve chosen the Feedback Subsection. So let’s start with feedback. I find it utterly detrimental that Franz Lohner’s Chronicle are only reliably update on the Vermintide Homepage. It isn’t helped that some have been posted in the Steam announcement section and some have not. For reference, this is the (hopefully) complete list:

For most part I would think it leads up to the two new careers for Kerillian and Saltzpyre. Maybe their two careers will be released at once? Maybe all three that are left at once (although their is very very little information concerning Sienna).

For Kerillian I find the latest chronicle interesting. Mainly the line:

It feels like she’s trying to attract the attention of something else. One of her gods, maybe?

So, if this is true. What would be your guess to which god she tries to draw attention? As my knowledge of Warhammer Lore is very limited (read: non-existent) I consulted the wiki for the Pantheon of the Elves and just clicked me through the different gods and there is a lot of choice to draw from: Loec, Hoeth? Drakira? Of course it has to fit with Kerillian somehow. The two who stroke me the most though, however are Atharti and Hekarti for a more stupid reason though. For Atharti it was that she is often depicted as a masked figure entwined with blood-red snakes which would fit with another quote from the last Chronicles:

Had a whopper of a nightmare, concerning a plague of blood-red snakes eating everything in sight.

Although that does sound more like a new menace thatn Kerillian’s new career. However, it is striking that it speaks of blood-red snakes. The second god in question is the twin sister of Arthari: Hekarti. Reason for this is the rivalry between the two which may hint (far-shot) to some kind of favour Kerillian has to do in the sisters conflict as well as a rather mundane reason of gameplay as there is this simple quote (from Wiki): With her favour, it is possible to tap directly into the Winds and unleash their full power.
It would kinda serve as the ultimate cop-out to give Kerillian magical abilities on an useable level right off the bat. And would also work with magic related stuff described in the last chronicle. However, another chronicle (A Walk in the Woods) covers Kerillian disrupting a ritual for Hekarti. On the one hand she knows how to perform the ritual, on the other hand Hekarti seems to be quite evil. She would have to give in to corruption, so this might really speak more about a new menace.

The story also seems to suggest that Lohner is kinda wary towards magic in general with trying to replace the charms hidden in the keep while both Olesya and Sienna don’t “bother” to much. Maybe Lohner can’t see everything after all.

In this direction also points a random theory I found on Reddit (yes, I am ashamed to have been on reddit, but I found it in an external search inquery):

I think I’ve figured out everything about Saltzpyre (not a joke) : Vermintide (reddit.com)

If you haven’t seen it so far, read it. It is entertaining. It basically says that Victor stroke a deal with Tzeentch: his eye for more insight. What I liked about that theory was how it let you interpret some voice lines from Drachenfels or even older conversation in a new light. How Victor’s speech about the grading of evil is from own experience or how Sienna’s “one monster killing another” or “making Victor human” are a result of her seeing the magical/cursing influence (while Lohner doesn’t). It may play into Victor questioning his faith/the empire in search for a new source of strength.

So we have to wait to see which god Kerillian baited and to what result Victor came after reading Lohner’s newly “acquired” information from an imperial vault.

Romucha · February 15, 2021, 12:22pm

It’s Khaine, elven god of blood murder and other fluff thingss they like so much.
Next Kerillian’s career is Bride of Khaine, 100%. Half naked berseker with a whip.
In a nutshell,

Archaon Everchosen used to be a templar of Sigmar as well. Until he found some secret information (177013) in Imperial vault and went nuts.
I’m afraid, Saltzpyre is about to meet the same fate. His next career is going to be Everchosen Pretender, and he’s going to try to overthrow Archaon. Or something like that.

Argonaut14 · February 15, 2021, 1:00pm

Great post @Adelion

Vic losing his eye in a deal to Tzeentch is far too familiar to the story of Magnus the Red from W40k to make it into The End Times I think. I thought after hearing some Drakenfels whisperings that he scooped his own eye out as a reminder to “never be so blind” as he was at some town. (Skaggadorf or something)?

On the subject of w40k, I personally feel Vic is definitely turning into what a 40k inquisitor would call a radical - using the enemies weapons against them. He’s definitely loosening his rigid stance (CONSORTING WITH AN ELF!), letting a known witch with a track record for murder and arson live, and he lets Kruber get away with all kinds of minor irreverence and blasphemy about Sigmar (“Get Sigmar to bring me a nice tankard of ale!”) plus his certainty has been shaken by Drakenfels.

I think Saltzpyre’s future end up as him a renegade Hunter. Outcast from the order and forced to continue without the support of the organisation.

As for Keri, I think her charms placed around the keep are there for protection, and Olysia and Sienna can see the minor magical protections and leave them be. Lohner has a history as a soldier, and soldiers are superstitious. He’s just getting rid of some weird hoodoo as far as I can see.

But why protect the keep? And from what? What has Keri sensed that she suddenly feels the need to put up charms and wards or attract an Elven god to their aid? Are the enemy closing in on their hideout?

as an aside, Archaon turned from the righteous path as a result of a battlefield injury, but the chaos god watched and directed his life from birth. Get the trilogy of books if you want the full story so I won’t ruin it here.

Chaos wastes is not a nice place. Maybe they’ll all get killed after they return to the Keep with a face where their arse should be.

Adelion · February 15, 2021, 2:58pm

Isn’t Shade already the “Khaine career path”?

Well, doing the same story twice would be a bit boring but nothing in literature. As for the scooping out. If we take his character model as base then he has a second eye. It is either just artificial, blind or some kind of laziness/censure. But there are no wounds, so doing it on his own for one reason or another could be a possibility.

Protection against Hekarti and/or Atharti? If she really slaughter followers of Hekarti she might be on bad terms with her. Would also fit with Lohner’s bad dreams. But I don’t see how it could be used in terms of “gameplay” as elven enemies are … unlikely. From a lore standpoint it would only work if Kerillian choses as consequence a warding god against Hekarti fitting with her intention to fix the Weaves.

Or maybe the Chaos Wastes are one large green field with a lot of fluffy bunnies and Chaos just gives bad publicity to hog the place for themselves

Romucha · February 15, 2021, 3:23pm

She is indeed, but Bride of Khaine is a full devotee. Kinda like Witch Hunter and Zealot, but half naked.

BizarreSalp · February 15, 2021, 3:27pm

Working with Elves isn’t heresy in Fantasy, just gotta say. Many Witch Hunters don’t trust their magic, sure, but Kerillian doesn’t use any magic (yet).

A very popular theory about Kerillian’s new career is that it will be a Wardancer or Shadowdancer. These are basically devotees of the trickster god, Loec. As some mentions have been made of Kerillian liking to prank people (putting strange herbs in the drinks, for example), this does seem up that alley.

Adelion · February 15, 2021, 5:51pm

So you favour this for gameplay reasons or

“gameplay” reasons?

Any threads on how this is supposed to play out gameplay-wise? Because Vermintide’s gameplay is very limited to allow much for tricksters. More invisibility? Some kind of decoy-ability? Also, Kerillian seems far too serious to be a prankster.

Incandescent · February 15, 2021, 6:06pm

I’m convinced it’s all actually just background fluff and will have zero impact on content at all

Jaffawer · February 15, 2021, 6:20pm

I think so too, just to keep people occupied while we wait for Chaos Wastes, at least now we have TWW3, which I’m quite sure will release before Chaos Wastes.

Romucha · February 15, 2021, 6:56pm

Yes.

Jokes aside, next Kerillian career is definetely going to be a melee one. If you noticed, all heroes tend to have three/four types of ults for each class: dash/stealth/shout/extra weapon.
Wutelgi has extra weapon for WS (sort of), dash for HM, stealth for Shade. So, shout skill is the only one left.

Wardancer is a plausible option, it is true. She could use some sort of magical drum to push enemies and buff allies, maybe even continuously and have new dual weapon like sword & spear and/or some kind of magical blade. But that’s a bit plain from my point of view.

Bride of Khaine, while using shout mehcanic as well, can offer more exotic, thus more interesting weapon choices.
Whip and some kind of bucler with it can serve not only as close, but also mid range melee weapon. Just imagine slapping those slave rats from afar.
Or Hag Graef Executioner’s sword, a big heavy and curvy one, because we oblivously don’t have enough executioner weapons in the game.
Plus, it can be tied to the story in her typical elven fashion. All other heroes learned their lessons, defeated inner daemons and became better versions of themselves, but Kerillian, being true special snowflake, fallen deeper into the darkness. Or something like that.
So, if I were to choose between those two, I’d choose Bride of Khaine.

Oh, and both Saltzpyre and Sienna are gonna have stealth careers. Screen it.

Arthadaw · February 15, 2021, 7:06pm

I don’t think they are going to do another career based on Kaine and it’s cult, there is already Shade for that (Lore reason)

Also Bride of Khaine don’t really fit her character that well, she isn’t someone who would eat the heart of the rest of the U5 because her god “told” her so

If you see this FS please don’t, be original and give them better ability that rehashed ability (Unless you can really make them interesting, but like really really make them more interesting)

Isn’t TWW3 expected to come out in September ?

Jaffawer · February 15, 2021, 7:08pm

That’s the joke my friend

Romucha · February 15, 2021, 8:49pm

She’s an elf, betrayal is in her blood.
Also, Khaine could have some love, considering what they had done to him during the End TImes.

Arthadaw · February 15, 2021, 8:52pm

he already got some, Shade are devoted to Khaine, and Kerrilian follow Khaine’s voice when she is becoming a Shade

Argonaut14 · February 15, 2021, 9:45pm

mutter mutter hoggars bridge

Considering the Engineer had an entirely new mechanic for his ult, there could be anything coming along for new careers.

I’d like some kind of mind control thing (makes all things less than a Mauler stand around like dummies) or a wardancer spinning around with a bamboo pole like some kind of shaolin-elf-thing.

In fact Kruber should get some kind of wooden staff to make his Huntsman Robin-hood outfit complete.

I mentioned ages ago that Sienna would be quite cool with some kind of smokey class. Cloud of smoke like Bardins Bomb, smokey invisibility and teleporting, AoE smoke cloud poisons enemies and so on. That would be her stealth class too - ticking the box there.

Saltz is either going to get kicked out of the Temple, Promoted, or lose his marbles entirely and go full on eccentric lunatic trying to defeat chaos by eating warpstone or something stupid.

SmokerT69 · February 16, 2021, 12:02pm

Genevieve skin for kerillian calling it…

Hopefully the new classes all have something exciting that makes them tick. I was impressed with the GK and Engi ult. Hopefully something along those lines. Even if GK ult is somewhat similar to shade ULT, delete target, it looks cool.

Arthadaw · February 16, 2021, 1:05pm

GK did have a simple active compared to Engineer but he does have access to the deeds which is a unique mechanic

So it seem to me that they do try to make it stand out in a way or another

BizarreSalp · February 16, 2021, 9:32pm

There are threads on Reddit theorizing about it, but some common threads are:

Stances. This was an idea that was apparently considered for Vermintide (or 2, can’t remember off-hand) that was ditched. Everyone was going to be able to switch between, at the minimum, offensive and defensive stances. This fits a Wardancer/Shadowdancer (Shadowdancers are just higher-tier Wardancers, so I’m just going to say Shadowdancer), as they have different dances that give them extra AP or things like that.
New Weapon options are easy; while some say the Shadowdancer will be melee-only like Slayer/Grail Knight, I personally hope not. But there are two easy melee options; a double-bladed spear and also combining that spear in one hand with a one-handed sword in the other. The former could become her anti-armor weapon by simply having good heavy attacks that are just overheads (like if she spun the spear). Spear+Sword would be weird because of the mixed reach of the weapons, but that might be the allure, as it’d be unique.
Another weapon option is a javelin - Asrai use them, and sometimes they are poisoned. Theoretically, they could “regrow” in her hands in place of the Throwing Axe recall mechanic.
As for ult, I don’t know. People seem focused on everyone getting a shout, a damaging ability, a stealth ability, and a mobility option, but I think they’re being a bit dogmatic. I doubt Fatshark will say “it must be of this type to complete the quadrilogy”, but ults tend to fall into those categories for variety’s sake. However, on the thought of giving her a shout, she could have a direct-damage shout like a “bladestorm” where she damages and knocks back everyone around her. Or she might have a special dance - she might just get a whole new mechanic where she can switch between anti-infantry and anti-armor modes or something.
Another option is illusions, which are something special that Shadowdancers do that Wardancers don’t.
For talents and stuff, I dunno. I have thought that the class identity would step on Handmaiden’s too much, but I do think they could make it stand out.

I think that’s a real possibility, though Shadowdancer/Spellsinger have been the leading theories I’ve seen since before these started. I think it’s likely that her new career will be a Wood Elf career, as Kerillian is primarily known as an Asrai. And there just really aren’t that many more Wood Elf options that make a lot of sense with her.

Shadowdancers are basically priests of Loec, and even though she doesn’t often mention that character, all of her other careers seem dedicated to a specific god, and honestly - Loec does kind of fit her, in that weird “nihilistic but still doesn’t want everything to end” kind of way. In 40k there is a deity called Cegorach, who is essentially just Loec by another name. Except in 40k there’s a whole faction of Elves that follow the trickster deity and are kinda the only competent beings with an eye on the larger picture keeping reality from falling apart.

Wardancers and Shadowdancers also wear skimpy outfits, but being Kerillian I expect she’ll still cover herself.

A Spellsinger or Spellweaver is also possible, and she could just get new staves and use magic. That wouldn’t be so odd, as we don’t know all of her history, and all Elves have magical potential (Kerillian has prophetic dreams - this is common among Elves). If that’s the case, she could literally use any of the eight lores OR High Magic OR Dark Magic or the (defunct by 8th edition) Lore of Athel Loren. Only two new stave options would seem a bit sparse, and more might be a lot of work, plus re-doing everything else about the character. Might be too much to expect, honestly.

Ghoth1ckov1tch · February 18, 2021, 9:11pm

Personally, I would not mind and would even be glad if the “Dual Axes” (like Wildwood Rangers Warden style) will be added . Or even “Axe + Sword”. Very original…

… but I like axes.

Propaslamya · February 19, 2021, 1:40am

I don’t know why anyone isn’t talking about Eternal Guard as an option…

Elf doesn’t have a true tank and has everything else covered.

Shade - Nuker
Handmaiden - Utility
Waystalker - Range/Special killer

I really doubt they will give her 2 new weapons other classes CANT use.

Shadowdancer seems too close to Handmaiden compared to how the other 2 careers expanded into a basic archetype across classes.

Eternal Guard at 150hp fills the role of an elf Frontliner and gives options for new weapons to other classes too