In a sense that damage should be lower or higher?
if you have infinite ammo obviously it should be lower than now, even on the heavier weapons
i play bolter right now iām doing a lot more damage with fiew shots now than i was doing pre patch 12
people argument that bolter hell was unhealty is completely null, cause right now its performing waaay better than back when you could chain 30 shots
whats the point on not being able to do 30 shots but then do 3x the damage??
y all stupid
Absolutely no way its performing better, I know we have a lot of woe is me the grass the grass whining going on but old bolter was completely dumb.
Mauler had 1800 health back then, Crusher around 2500 and Bulwarks 3000. Just from using ult you could kill shotgunners in a body shot (750 HP). At 5 unpinning stacks under ult you were literally 1 shotting Mauler with flak damage equipped.
There were also much smaller elite mobs back then, so the odds of them even surviving a barrage from a Zealot was non existent, so a Vet with the toughness + reload boltgun was a complete ride along joke.
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i dunno man, right now with 15 shots and the right spec i can 100% 0% any boss hp, before i would have need half my total reserves (and i always ran unyelding not flak on the thing)
I love the bolter now. Still my fave vet weapon.
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Because they nerfed monstorcities.
The survivalist nerf wouldnāt be so bad in isolation, itās the 18 months of changes leading up to it that may have been the straw that broke the camelās back for some people, including but not limited to:
Elite health and stagger changes
Lack of weapon or blessing balance to justify talent nerfs
Un-fun mechanics/design (too much busywork in general)
(Relatively) severe nerfs between pre-patch 13 and current veteran
Weird and excessive ranged/melee/survival separation in Veteran talent tree
Other archetypes getting features that veterans lost
Uninteresting buffs to systems that are still somewhat awkward to play with
Ammo return calculation design and changes (based off reserves, partial ammo no longer rounds up)
etc.
etc.
So while veteran isnāt completely useless and is viable, theyāve been taking shots to the gut repeatedly and I can understand the sentiment.
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You bring up a good point, and if I may dust off my soapbox for a moment, any weapon that has a Close Range blessing missing out on a good chunk of damage due to it being halved to 8m since Oct.
Iām almost tempted to write a scoreboard mod plug-in to keep track of how many mobs were downed between 8m and 15m and calculate the missing damage/wasted ammo.
P.S. I was lying, my soapbox isnāt dusty.
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No?
you didnāt had these before
and didnāt had patch 14 buffs either
and you can drink a strenght potion too on top of that when the boss show up, how much extra damage per shot more you have compared to patch 12
when bosses show up they just melt as soon as they see me when i run these specs
thats 32% of focus target + 20% bring it down + 10% nodes that alone is 62% damage flat + 20% headshot power + 30% (only weakspot damage so its less) +25% of patch 14 buffs, to land those headshots exe stance is also an option so 25 + 25, although its better to stun them with voice of command
Monstruosities got nerfed in one patch, but then they got rebuffed next to normal state i remember that
the PTS people was having pre 13 about bolter vets was solely because pinning fire was busted, and even with that it wasnāt still as strong as now
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Perhaps, i remember there was weakspot damage changes.
It wasnāt only about damage, it was about infinite ammo, mobs density and other classes have no range anti elite options.
Unlimitted ammo vet was the only one who can push forward. Infinite ammo+confirmed kill+all those wield buffs from exe stance.
Typical scoreboard was that vet has ~x2 damage score compare to any other archetype, what was insane in the context of how there are not so many elites and special. Vet was killing them all basicaly. Others were just playing spectator mode.
And about bosses - there was no range options anyway, and even if it was slower to kill boss, itās whatever, considering boss was the only one mob at the arena most of the time.
this i dont buy, if the vet is not shooting is because hes reloading, iāve been running with no survivalist for a dozen of games now and iām finding no issue on letting my reserves go red for a cuple seconds
if you play with exe stance i would not recommand going for a keystone, i would go for something like this
and this is how iām rocking with my bolter this patch
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Still working my way back up the mission difficulty, trying heresy rn with my 1a and chain sword.
Itāsā¦not great. The 1a demands a lot of precision even with Exec stance and quite frankly Vet doesnāt have a good ult with said gun.
I might switch back to the Lucius 1 or 3 to try and make the sniping work better.
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Not sure what do you mean. Back in the days it just was like that - insta swap on volley fire - kill the whole blob from range - stack confirmed kill - reloading on the move - repeat. There was no restrictions.
About current situation, i donāt know why anyone would run without survivalist (with some niche exceptions) - itās a great aura still, and best aura vet has.
Another small point - iāve seen plenty of times people donāt like Charismatic talent, while it buffs your Survivalist indirectly. Bigger coherency radius means higher chance some of your teammates will trigger aura on kill (not sure how it will be with cd now)
Volley fire was providing +50% damage, reloading talents was there, unwavering focus.
And on top of that you could pick one of these
f that iām not running that anymore, iām on strike, fire team helps with my melee aswell
tried that, non existent value, there are way better blue talents to pick
it still does, its just split by 25% damage and 25% weakspot, but i dont blame you for not knowing, just looking at exe stance makes me sick
Sustained fire was the norm for everybody that valued themselves, i tried the bigger they are but even for a boss killing centric player like me it just wasnāt cut it (also i suspect that 75% was included the 50% of the base volley fire, so it would have been just +25%)
I love it. 33% damage resistantce is huge and ask nothing from you. Its only con is coherency, wich is a bit unreliable with randoms so Charismatic fixes that. Kinda the same situation as with Lynshpin and Towering Presence. Coherency leash becomes less tight.
Well fair enough. But again, it wasnāt about bosses, bosses wasnāt a problem, most of the time boss was the only mob on the arena.
The problem was how vet could push through, it was kinda like knife zealot currently, but range magdumper.
Same as it was when beam staff for Sienna was broken in V2, when she could kill and perma stagger everything, and the rest of the team was playing as supports.
Bolter was disgusting, and it was the reason i was playing with mg12 mostly, now i play mainly with bolter on my vet.
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you were playing with mg 12, i was playing with cavalcade on instead of pinning fire on my bolter, so we both never tried the real deal
i did eventually got my pinning fire bolter but it was very late, like 1 month before the pinning fire nerf, so maybe that is why i donāt remeber it being so overpowered
But I tried and my impression was ālol wtf cheat modeā. Itās the same bolter iām playing with now. With 4/4 you could destroy DH in those time noone was touching it, if you were using same tactics as for the witch in l4d2.
Like if you are insisting, ok, i donāt have much more to say, neither i have any vod from those times to proof.
I had a pinning fire bolter and autopistol.
Both were incredibly ridiculous weapons. Bolter especially. It was a delete button for anything in your path.
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And not everythingā¦ a zealot cannot one shot a crusher, a veteran can.
Wonāt argue with youā¦ plasma guns and revolvers ON VETERAN + kickback on Ogryns made me stop playing.
I will just say that I stopped to play the veteran with revolver, cause it is litterally broken. It is above too strongā¦ same for plasma. And FS has even reinforced thisā¦
did you play a zealot? it seems you have not.
anyway with a veteran you can kill a crusher withā¦ a dagger. Yeah, I know it hurts you, but yes you can with a veteran with a melee build. That was what I was playing with an AIG, and from my point of view, several veteran builds were too strong when you compare with such builds (and I would not say that it needed a buff, at contrary I consider the builds that allow you to one shot everything as too strong).
Noā¦ trueā¦ this is just that you will annoy the veterans in the team (and ogryns also).
well depend of your class. if you are a zealot, you should run to them to push them into melee
And using too much your ranged gun will push you in problem or even a wipe. Several times I have run out of ammo as a veteran cause of people that were playing too much with their ranged weapons, and when they have died, it is really hard without ammo to reverse the situation. Without ammo, you die as a veteran when there is lot of enemies.
I prefer Darktide to Helldivers 2, mainly cause in DT we play as a team. In helldivers I chase now the defense missions that are really fun to play as people are forced to play as a team. Other than that, HD2 is a sort of solo game, with the possibility to be killed by other players (and usually other players are far more dangerous for you than bugs or robots).
But the main difference is that HD2 fixes balance problem in 1 week where DT needs 6 months. When veteran/ogryn take all kills, missions are just boring.
People tend to use what is overpowered and complain when there is a nerf. But playing with OP weapons is boring, seeing other killing everything and takiing all the fun is also boring.
When I play DT I usually play my zealot, cause I can run into the enemies, put me in danger and I can take fun. But if all the time you try to go to an enemy and that this enemy dies before you can even hit him, well there is no fun.
My second char is a veteran AIG / dagger and thatās why I can assure you that a veteran can play with melee and can deal with crushers.
no iām not insisting, and in those time i was touching it, since it was released as a boss, what do you mean with 4/4? i was trying it with randoms often unprepared, and i couldnāt last much, eventually i started pulling with my psyker untill they nerfed kinetic deflection, then i started doing it with the zealot, with the antax, then with the thammer (the proper way), then i got bored and i got back at doing it with bolter/power sword, and as patches progresses instead of becoming harder it became easier each times, now i got very good at it and i can do it without taking any damage than corruption (without voice of command, thats cheating)
the thing is now that often i can just pop it right open with the first volley, that is why i insist that bolter is in a better state now that it was before (pre 13 i was doing like 1/3 of the damage with the dreaded 30 shots to then just die immediately), unlike you i think bosses always been a big threat, especially beast of nurgle, it would end my runs at refinery delta 17 (and chasm logistratum below the trains) every time i got in the wide area after the first event, cause nobody were prepare for anti bosses
ok but as you said often there wasnāt mobs when bosses appeared, especially if you was setting yourself up to do demon hosts, so pinning fire would give you edge only in rare occasions
also shattering impact doesnt do a thing to bosses
the only thing was cavalcade that i was running, but the difference was meager, cavalcade always sucked for me