Yeah sure you have a point but I am talking out of a solo player/quick match perspective and not in a planned group.
If you have 4 people who make builds based on Survivalist in Auric i can understand it being a real balance issue as it were.
So, if Vet isnât worthless, what does the class brings to the table that no other class can do ?
Ranged burst damage against elites? Nope, Ogryn can do it far more efficiently and still keep a beefy melee profile while Vet is forced to sacrifice every melee buff in the tree to reach the good ranged damage buffs and only has one good gun (plasma) that is bound to be nerfed sooner rather then later
Support ability ? Nope, Psyker can pop shield domes that cover the entire team from shooters and Zealot can use the holy relic of FU to stun everything in the room, turn everyone invincible, give damage and toughness buffs and on a very short cooldown because every crit will reduce the cooldown
An easy solution against shooters ? Nope, Psyker has a literally infinite ammount of firepower perfectly made to kill shooters, Ogryns with stubbers can spray an entire room for 30 seconds without reloading and Zealots can just slide at them faster then Sonic and lock them into melee before they even have time to finish their first salvo
A good aura ? No, even that is off the table because the only good aura was old Scavenger and it was only really worth it for Veterans because Psykers donât need ammo, Zealots donât use their ranged weapons and Ogryns are super ammo efficient
Good blitz to compensate ? Nope, once again Veteran got the short end of the stick. Frag grenade doesnât kill anything and is more like a worse version of the stun grenade of the Zealot that applies bleed in a much smaller radius, Krak could be a good grenade if it didnât take half a year to explode and everyone in the team didnât have an option to get rid of heavy armor in a blink and smoke has been a joke since the release of the talent tree rework
So, once again, whatâs the point of Veteran ? Itâs the shooty class and itâs getting outshooted by both hybrid classes and even the melee class can fill the role of the Vet because sliding towards shooters is perfectly safe and will stop them from shooting
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Funnily enough Vet used to have a very important niche before balance changes/Xbox release - when a horde of scab or dreg shooters decided to entrench, they were the only ones capable of clearing that out due to how Volley Fire worked. Ofc now the shooters are far fewer in number but they used to be extremely oppressive.
Currently Vet justâŚhas the wrong toolkit. The devs are afraid of giving him melee buffs so if he specializes in ranged firepower heâs hysterically vulnerable. Psyker has it easier despite being less beefy, because their kit allows quick-n-easy horde or elite elimination in pretty much any capacity. Vet has to commit to a tunnel-vision build for inconsistent buffs and not enough survivability.
EDIT: I will note that Vet used to be hysterically unbalanced, with the best melee, an incredibly useful ult that made him borderline invulnerable, and no weaknesses or brainpower required. But right now heâs hamstrung by stupid mechanics and gimmicks.
If you want to make shooty vet useful, rework Exec Stance to be less pigeonholed and point-hungry, make his Keystones less gimmicky, and make lasguns and headhunters hard-hitting enough to one-shot-headshot elites on Damnation with a decent roll.
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I wanna be clear to refer to my first post, for me itâs more fun to play the other classes because they function as they should, while Veterans doesnât do it for me anymore.
@wakito and @Ragnarok101 summed it up pretty good.
Edit: They had a role before with a good kit, but now they really donât fit into the current flow of gameplay.
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Man, the amount of bad takes here are absurd.
but Iâm not even gonna try anymore since itâs probably no difference from talking to a wall. I even feel ashame to even call myself Vet main at this point.
Have fun discussing though, Iâm out 
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Donât worry, weâve made our cases and theyâll either be used or ignored.
Best we can do now is as you said, leave the discussion and wait it out. Youâre not alone, Soldier.
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or outright not use any keystone, it works too, iâve sacced the keystone to remove survivalist from my talent tree, i run out of ammo after the first room, but iâll just find some in the next and be fine
Yes? Bolter so far is a great range weapon to deal with crushers and bosses, especially with weakend versions - focus target tag+stun with VoC go for headshot magdump. Plasma is just broken OP.
Vet is the best hybrid all rounder class if you go middle branch.
No itâs not. Sharpshooter left branch is.
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Thats no good
Ridiclous. The Vet (middle tree or no) is not a Hybrid all rounder. They are a toughness regenerator with some ability in both melee and ranged. Its not a unique identity at all. Its overshadowed by two other classes.
Yes, is⌠boring and not very good.
The Veteran has no solid identity. The talent trees suck. And theyâre slowly squeezing out any enjoyment left in the class for those of us who stuck to it from the start.
We have yet to gain anything interesting. I cannot abide being forced into VoC.
Are we seriously pretending here that Veteran has been some hype, kickass exciting class since the talent reworks? Its not, Iâve been p*ssed off since then, and this nerf is spitting in my eye.
Fix the bloody class first, then we can balance the talents that need it.
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I donât have any of them problems with my vet.
And this is full of mistruths.
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It is, there are unconditional rend, bosses/ogryns damage, flat damage buff with Focus Target. itâs basicaly the mix of WHC and Kruber Merc from V2. I run bolter+chainsword, frag nades, voc, survivalist, there is no target or situation i canât deal with. High mobility, toughness farm, 50/50 melee-range, team buffs, bosses and elite damage.
Not rly you can spot what branches are about. Itâs just sharpshooter, commando-infiltrator pathes are not that great, so people tend not to play pure archetype, but some mix of things are good and easy to reach.
Yes? But itâs not the same as âvet is worthlessâ. His tree is just very restrictive, weapon depended and bipolar - things are either extremely good, or pure trash.
Like even without VoC you can go Exe stance+plasma, and shoot enemies through the walls all run. Wich insnât worthless at all.
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I wasnât intending to upset anyone or âwinâ an argument by my post.
I apologize.
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Yeah I canât argue with anything you say. Quite reasonable.
I see a lot of people saying that the original post is the real crux of this discussion, I feel thats a bit disingenuous, as weâre clearly talking about our opinions on the Veteran as a whole, as well as the recent nerf.
But to be clear, no I donât think Veteran is worthless, as it can have value if you play as a good team mate. Obviously. lol
Oh, thanks. Thats actually quite unexpected. I mean, I will say that you have obviously been contributing to the discussions on this and I think you raise good points. I just took issue with that one, is all.
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I can only agree with some of the people posting exactly what i felt while playing my sharpshooter marksman Veteran.
The crux of the situation is: in the hands of the averagely skilled and competent enough player, any other class other then first tree Veteran is better as a shooter and as a melee fighter in the majority of the situations that the game provides, both in terms of efficacy and survival when we take all elements (teammates, their behavior, enemies, their behavior etc.) in the equasion.
Playing all my recent matches i felt almost is if i am alive or dead depends solely on my teammates and whether they acknowledge what gear and skills i have and cover me from melee trash spawning in. Even hordes arenât a problem, the problem is that you take serious health damage after second missed poke from a trash mob that decided to attack from behind when you are locked in dispatching a melee pack. If they provide cover and we manage to stick together, game goes decently well, i can deal with most elites. But then i switch to Ogryn and Zealot, and⌠i can do exactly the same but i donât need anyone nearly in the same capacity as Vet needs. Canât say anything about psyker.
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⌠serious? did you pay attention to the fact that a veteran can one shoot everything with a revolver? no other class can do this OP thing. And yet, they buffed this build.
So, no, youâre wrong. Vet does not shoot a bit better, thatâs far away of this.
About melee, yes you can, but of course not if you aim at playing vet exclusively with a ranged gun. Melee veteran works great, different than zealot but the middle world between ranged and melee.
Well, if you see that, this means you see someone that does not know playing a zealot. First, damages with a zealot is far away of a veteran.
Veteran can one shoot, zealot needs 3 bullets to kill a crusher.
But, more than that, it would mean that the player would play a lot with the ranged weapon, something that is just wrong with a zealot.
Yeah⌠like plasma gun / revolver on a veteran, the kickback is too strong⌠But, FS, did not think it should be corrected.
Tbh, this is just ruining fun to see a veteran wiping everything. And playing such build is boring and not fun as it is too strong.
Balance is a problem in this game, and this lead me to stop playing it.
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can one shoot everything with a revolver? no other class can do this OP thing.
What? Literally the best thing about a revolver is that a Zealot can equip it and one shot almost anything without any prerequisites on what the gun has perks-wise. Thatâs why you see 90 percent of Zealots running revolver and the rest being knife shankers that are too fast to spend their time using puny ranged weapons.
Also wild west cowboy is still not what an iconic Guardsman looks like, akin to how angry gremlin knee stabber is not what people imagine when they think of 40Kâs Zealots. I donât see how the fact that a Veteran, class with most ranged weapons, take a Revolver out of all things help your case. Also you handicap yourself with only 6 shots while using Executionerâs Stance.
So, no, youâre wrong. Vet does not shoot a bit better, thatâs far away of this.
Provided i consider you take about a revolver wrong, i also donât agree with this statement.
Melee veteran works great, different than zealot but the middle world between ranged and melee.
I assume you are talking about middle tree veteran which is decent in melee, almost to how good Zealot or Ogryn is, because i am mostly talking about what first tree Veteran plays like, and i assume that you are not implying that Sharpshooter Vetern is good in melee.
Well, if you see that, this means you see someone that does not know playing a zealot. First, damages with a zealot is far away of a veteran.
Veteran can one shoot, zealot needs 3 bullets to kill a crusher.
I would say that this is not an argument against my statement, because there are more then plenty of ways for other 3 classes to deal with armor and the fact that Veteran can use a Revolver to defeat one of the most armored enemies in the game speaks only about how ridiculously weapons are balanced in the game. If only Veteran had a, hmm, you know, Thunder Hammer to kill these crushers in one tap irregardless of ammo.
It would be more relevant if all games were just a revolver Veteran agains one crusher, but they are not, there are more factors and situations happening in game on regular occasion. Also Revolver vets might take Focused Fire and VoC and that also not something i am talking about here. All my points are about Sharpshooter Veteran.
But, more than that, it would mean that the player would play a lot with the ranged weapon, something that is just wrong with a zealot.
Exactly! But there is nothing hindering Zealot in playing ranged! Of course he doesnât have as much ranged-oriented perks but in most cases that doesnât matter, weapons in themselves combined with right blessings are powerful enough to defeat anything game throws at you. Elites in range? Take a revolver! Mixed horde with elites? Take an autogun! You lose nothing by doing that, meanwhile Veteran opting in range build stripes himself of any defences.
Tbh, this is just ruining fun to see a veteran wiping everything. And playing such build is boring and not fun as it is too strong.
Like, i see every class wiping everything if played correctly because almost all of them are extremely powerful. Sharpshooter Veteran is very polarized in his balance, where you are heavily discouraged to do melee whether other classes are not.
Balance is a problem in this game, and this lead me to stop playing it.
Sorry to heat that. Balance is also something why i donât play Darktide regularly with my favourite pew-pew class. Hopefully situation changes for the better in general, not only in regards to class balance.
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I did some runs with a sharpshooter build that I like. I was fine as a teammate and contributed to the win. But I can also sympathize with this thread. Although I donât think the ammo/survivalist changes are really the problem.
Rather, the issue is that while a sharpshooter can be effective on paper, in practice the flow of the game, level design, and AI director doesnât really support it well.
I can plink headshots all day long with executioners stance up and a lasgun and have a jolly time. Except those opportunities to shine are few and far between.
In one game I had two Ogryn on the team and given that 80% of the level was in linear corridors I spent most of my time with no real field of fire since Ogryn meat filled up my screen. The few cases where the room opens up and I have a shooting gallery opportunity, are also where we can get easily surrounded and having tunnel vision means Iâm at risk for taking hits in the back. Your teammates donât want to baby sit you. So you get forced out the sharpshooter portion even when youd otherwise have a moment.
Something shifted in the design and AI director. Months ago, I feel like there were a lot more heavy ranged encounters with masses of shooters. And the vet played an awesome role in clearing that out. Maybe with Xbox and patch #13 they toned that down (because controller aiming?).
Anyway. The sharpshooter playstyle can work, but there ultimately really isnât a reason for it. I donât think it struggled because the build or capability is bad. Rather it struggles because the situations where it excels are few and far between and other classes/builds can press through those moments easily enough anyway.
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Maybe Iâm reading this wrong, but it doesnât make sense.
Weapon are ~always balanced around end-game, the lower diffs have their own balancing factors key of which is player skill, you know, the âfilthy casualâ and âweekend warriorsâ.
Not really.
The infinite ammo is fun and stupid
kinda like the infinite arrows on kerrilian was years ago, and you could do stupid-fun lightbow ammoregen with ult and just spam arrows.
But u can run without that aura on T5-maelstrom without problem.
i think vet should be allowed to shoot as he pleases, just not with the current damages (pretty much like psykers, they can have 100% ranged uptime and not being a community problem)