And Survivalist is still incredibly strong. AND Vet is still incredibly strong. Folks acting like the sky fell and I’m personally sick of the whining. I’m sorry you can’t be camo vets anymore. I’m sorry you can’t fire your guns endlessly, without consequence or reloading, anymore. I’m sorry you have to engage with the existence of melee’ing. You still have:
Suppression immunity, insane damage (Finesse, Weakspot, Elite / Ogryns, Crit Chance, Rending, Brittleness, Flat % Bonuses), a busted ult (shout), excellent dippable toughness damage reduction (Iron Will, Close Order Drill, Exhilarating Takedown), Krak grenades and grenade regen, the ability to flex and fill any team role. You have A LOT.
There’s still parts of the tree and talents I’d like to see tweaked too but oh my goodness PLEASE let Survivalist go, forum. I know you won’t but PLEASE. It’s so lame to peek in and see the same folks throwing a fit every day about such a Nothingburger.
I think people, this OP included, are getting confused between the people saying “Vet as a whole is bad now” (patently untrue) and those saying “this has negatively affected the playstyle I enjoyed (left tree gun uptime focused without the VoC crutch) and left one of the already weakest aspects of Vet’s kit even more overshadowed by the shouty support Merc wannabe build”.
I think this conversation would be a lot more productive if a bunch of folk here were more careful to distinguish between those perspectives.
Hordes pose little threat. Save the ammo for elites, ranged, larger threats etc. Stick with team and use melee more against trash mobs. Take a bit longer to aim for headshots to conserve ammo more.
Some guns like Plasma has such large magazine. Could skip some reload skill nodes etc and throw into melee i.e. flat +10% melee damage.
Save the grenades, Voice of command or Infiltrate, save for defensive only since you’re going closer for melee more as escape options.
Still take survivalist. Better some ammo than none. That 5% extra damage team buff isn’t going to change alot of breakpoints for them.
Install mod to see team mates ammo and sharing is now more important than ever
Wish it was possible to actually switch classes in mission lobby when you match make into heavily ammo dependent team to balance.
These kind of smooth brained posts unironically think they are well thought out when they haven’t even addressed the root problem that actually matters.
This is the enormous lack of ammo for the non-Vet classes that basically just lost 80% of their prior ammo pool. Imagine trying to play gun pskyer in Auric Maelstrom right now.
people don’t enter the forums because they care about balance, they do it because they want their build to carry them. now they can’t blindly pour fire into everything they see and it’s too much for the console brains.
You’ve listed the most unambiguously good part about the nerf. Gunpsyker has ammo sustain through sheer damage per bullet (very high). That build absolutely SHOULD have to worry about its resources.
Similarly Ogryn has no goddamn business spamming Kickback or Rumbler through a whole match.
Honestly the ammo given to team mates has been the most problematic part of it, pre nerf survivalist ammo regen if restricted to just Vet really wouldn’t be much of an issue.
If you can’t play gunpsyker in Auric without a survivalist Vet that is the definition of a skill issue (pssstt that build has very strong melee to supplement your gun as well you just have to use your crazy good mobility to actually avoid going down).
It’s really sad you tainted making a good point with this generalising boomer posting.
The whole but perils thing is dumb as if a staff is anywhere near as flexible. Even the once reducing all game difficulty to not trauma staff is feeling the current game. Ogryns do not care about it, and they take like a half dozen rings if they’re a Bulwark.
I mean it’s ammo regen for the whole team in a game where ammo regen/sustain mechanisms largely don’t exist. It’s probably still like +50% ammo back per team member at top difficulty. Still a very significant amount more total ammo per mission.
I think OP is missing the point but “survivalist isn’t good anymore actually” really isn’t the hill I’d recommend dying on. I know you’re reasonable please be for real here
I think survivalist nerf was bad, the arguments advocating its nerf favor a small part of an already small community
we talking about malestorm and damnation hi iq/shock modifiers, 70% players i get matched in peak hours are underperforming or outright liablilities
it might be true that there is a very elusive part of the playerbase that is good enough to care about competition in higher difficulties, but i guess i’m never lucky enough to be matched with those guys
on a side note, this is how i feel since i play without survivalist
I know what you mean - from a still a “better then nothing” perspective you are certainly right. But OP stated it’d still be incredibly good - which isn’t true anymore.
In my sharpshooter builds I still include it - because it’s there. In seargent or commando builds it’s not worth the points to derail anymore.
I generally think most auras don’t have enough impact on the game - nerfing the few that have is the wrong way in my opinion. That suvivalist still is the best aura on vet just shows how bad the other two were - but that’s not a vet problem alone. The only other aura I really notice is the corruption healing zealot one.
Yeah sure we can argue semantics about “incredibly”. I’d say compared to all auras across all classes it’s still probably a top 3 for value at least. I can see your point that it’s no longer SO MUCH better that you’d always warp your tree to fit it in, though honestly there are probably still a bunch of guns you would do that with even if the rest of your build isn’t focused on ranged.
So yeah I don’t think it shows how bad the other Vet auras are since it stacks up well against the majority of auras period.
Anyway my main point was that how strong survivalist is post nerf isn’t a productive thing to focus on. It is definitely good for an aura, it’s just that it shouldn’t exist as an aura at all. It’s unbalanceable while it’s stocking the whole team unless you add so many conditions, ifs, and buts to when it works for team mates that it ends up with a wall of text for a description.
The best solution for everyone is take away the team component and let Vet have pre nerf survivalist or an equivalent to sustain a ranged focused build if that’s what they want to do, without it breaking other classes’ weapons and builds that clearly were never designed to have that kind of sustain to back them up.
vet is quite literally THE ranged class though, while it may be good at melee they are outclassed by ogryn and zealot (idk bout psyker, idk much bout them). this take is like saying zealots shouldnt use their melee weapons all the time regardless of the fact the majority of their kit is based on melee, only difference is that vets ranged needs finite ammo while a zealot never has to reload their hands.
survivalist is not strong, not anymore. its yet another perk in the long line of vets mediocre or straight up lame perks compared to the other classes. if you look at the perks youll see that vet has alot of skills that buff damage to special enemies and thats simply because vets are the defacto specialist killer like kerillian or kruber for example (sienna, salty and bardin obviously could be specialist killers but those required more steps to achieve what krubes and she-elf needed).
i feel like people greatly look over the fact that the perk was mainly used as a buff for teammates as a vet can easily use alot of ammo without ever really running out if they had even the most basic forms of knowledge about the skill tree and an understanding of how not to waste shots on nothing important.
all in all though im basically indifferent to the change as it didnt really affect me, the only one upset about the change was my zealot and ogryn friend who ran luggers or revolvers and relied on my perk xD
