For starters I agreed with people before that Survivalist (even in it’s patch 13 nerfed form) wasn’t good for the game, but I think nobody really was in favor for actually reducing the Vet’s reserve itself.
I myself enjoyed playing a class focused on shooting things (even tho I mostly played smoke Vet which is more melee focused than ranged), but after trying it out with a bunch of weapons it feels like 50/50 hybrid at best.
Can we actually have a class that makes ranged weapons as fun to use as Zealot makes melee? Can we have a 20/80 melee/ranged split where you aren’t constantly running out of ammo?
I kinda feel like I can shoot more freely playing vermintide with a ranged class after the current patch. We are currently there.
What do you guys think? Is this Hybrid gameplay has no place for a ranged focused class with melee for backup?
PS: I don’t care about balance and viability. I want a class that can actually do shooter focused gameplay and maybe even feel useful.
I can only repeat myself at this point, in regards to survivalist, how it should work and what to do with it ideally.
The current reality is that the best build for vet is a hybrid build which aims to spam shout as much as possible. Making a ranged focused build is simply not as viable as the hybrid “support” build and if you want to play a build which makes ranged combat it’s priority, you should play ogrin or psyker, it’s that simple.
The fact that the premire ranged class isn’t veteran is what I would like to see changed as well.
Heck yes I’d love a Subclass within Veteran focused on shooting!
I’m not entirely sure what happened when they were designing the three talent trees within Veteran, but something went wrong. They apparently spent extra time working on it, though I think thats because an idea got scrapped. Something about specific weapon talents (which sounds horrendously bad). The three concepts at their absolute basics seem ‘fine’, though I might have gone with an engineer instead of infiltrator, or something else.
But damn, the Sharpshooter has just gotten worse. Can we get a new one please?
I think the advertising promised us that we’d be able to play ranged in situations which, in reality, are punished by the game as it exists today.
Even if we set aside the nerf to ranged play, this change, relatively speaking, makes the aura get worse as you go up through the difficulties. That’s just a really bad design, and suggests that they simply didn’t think this through.
Been playing Gunlugger Ogryn and Survivalist Vet since the patch and I have to say you’re displaying severe amounts of skill issue. Even on Gunlugger Ogryn with no ammo aura I can shoot 80% of the game. With Survivalist Vet I’m almost entirely unlimited and can shoot at pretty much every situation. I whip out the melee weapon only for stuff it would be absurdly inefficient to shoot at, like lone ambient enemies or the remainder of a horde after the massed up ball has been blasted.
These games were never meant to be full ranged only games. You have to do atleast that much. If you think that’s not fun there are plenty of ranged only games like this. Having good melee combat is kind of the whole point of this franchise and it’s why it’s so unique. It’s absurd that someone would come play it and then ask for it to be like all the other games.
I’m a bit tired of auraless vets blasting their plasma gun into lone poxwalkers then going OMG WHY WAS THE AURA NERFED WOE IS ME ETC
Besides, plasmagun was already the least affected by the aura due to the nature of the ammo return working off reserve and saving partial ammo, so it’s a combination of the plasmagunners not knowing what they’re talking about or the ones complaining about plasmaguns don’t exist.
For me, it’s less the specific mechanics of the change and more the repeated kneecapping of an archetype’s original playstyle and identity while not really presenting decent alternatives.
Option still exists as I said, I can shoot all game just fine. If someone can’t it’s a skill issue and he’s wasting tons of ammo. Everyone’s pretending this is about being able to play ranged focus, which is still perfectly possible, when i nreality it’s that the people complaining are the type to kill every individual shooter (out of 1000+) with a revolver shot etc.
There’s also the fact that most people don’t explore. I’m basing this off the games I play, but the people spamming “I need ammo” (no scavenger aura ofc) are always the same people who don’t open a single box and just run ahead to the next enemy
Well our experience clear doesn’t seem to match. Not in the slightest.
I’ve been mainly running smoke build on Vet with plasma in mostly, even made a post about it here (it’s gotten a bit better with the tree change) at it’s heavily a hybrid build where you actively melee a lot, so IDK what you are talking about.
I just like shooter playstyle too and I don’t get why we can’t have that, and I’m also not getting while shooting some ambient poxwalker is a problem at all, not like we have much of those in AuricSTG+, mostly just ambient groups of 10+ gunners with like 40 shooters.
We can have that though. You want me to link a VOD of a guy duoing an auric maelstrom and shooting almost all mission long? Yet somehow in your games with 4 people to share all the killing with you’re limited and running out of ammo constantly?
I’m just tired of the pretense that this isn’t possible now. It’s not accurate. It’s always been possible and it’s still possible and the far more important aspect of it is not wasting ammo on highly inefficient situations mindlessly. Slightly less ammo from scavenger doesn’t change that. The change mostly affects auric maelstrom mutant spawnwaves anyway, or dog packs.
Sure link it. There are las weapons and maybe something else than can keep up, and yes shooting somewhat freely whole team was running low several times. Maybe playing with pugs is my problem, should just run 2 man so I get twice the pickups I guess.
To quote you: “It’s not accurate”. Someone can do the probable math, but that 5 sec cooldown does mean that you get at least 1/3 from the talent than before and probably way less, and I can definitely feel that.
Downplaying the magnitude of the change to the ammo available doesn’t really make your point better.
The logic that he gets twice the ammo doesn’t check out because he also kills twice the things cause no other 2 teammates. His other teammate is a veteran who shoots a lot too, btw.
My point is immaculate because I have actual proof that you can still shoot all game long even without ammo aura even on the notoriously bad ammo economy class and weapon. All you have is whining about things that aren’t real. If you want to play ranged focus and not run out of ammo, stop shooting at lone poxwalkers and just bonk them. Also, open boxes and take the ammo inside of them instead of tunnel visioning. That’s literally all it takes. If you don’t want to do even that much, play a different game.
So your point is that Ogryn with busted kit and weaponry is ok running Ogryn version of +free ammo. Damage had a good 30/70 melee ranged split I’m fine with that.
I wrote the post from a vet perspective. I want a human gun specialist please and thank you. Oh and make it 20/80.
lol whatever you say dude. We’re pretending gunlugger with a stubber is ammo efficient now, ok dude. Keep living in your fantasy world.
If ammo aura less two players can both be doing massively more ranged damage than melee damage and you’re complaining ranged focus isn’t possible even WITH ammo aura then the issue is on your end, there’s no way around it. The vet had an agripina revolver, one of the least ammo efficient weps in the game, and he still managed to do 300k melee 500k ranged damage without ammo aura. I don’t get how this is not acceptable to you, that means with ammo aura he could be pretty close to 80/20 with a totally bad ammo economy weapon. How is this not sufficient? Do you really want this to be a game where you just hose down everything with no regards to efficiency? You’re forced to melee mechanically to begin with, since there are times you want to block. This game literally does not, at the most fundamental level, allow you to be ranged only, so there’s no point wanting that. But that’s really what Vet players seem to want. There’s a heavy disconnect in what the game actually plays like and what the people here complaining are pretending the game is.
Kinda, and kinda not. Orange is very close to red and you really need to go into make every shot count, and you shoot less which isn’t that fun.
I feel like several weapons was already a bit iffy on the ammo side if you want to lay more into the shooter experience and this recent change didn’t help.
Look I give you an example.
I really like playing brauto with Chaxe/Caxe pre patch 13. You could shoot a lot, basically 20/80 split, it was really fun, really strong and you still had to melee against armor, when horde got close and nade bulwarks and whatnot. It was very fun, your weapon had a weakness. I want something like that going.
I enjoy other things too, not just that. Bombrushing everything with Zealot or doing some AB stuff with Psyker, even playing hybrid Vet, but I really like shooting with Vet sometimes, but it feels really bad.
This bad includes things like the very dumb patch 13 recon build too, which I hated with passion! I don’t want “left-click gameplay”. I don’t want to constantly watch my ammo and my shooting. I want to so somewhat freely and enjoy the the shooting gameplay which is getting more bland on Vet.
There is a thing that it doesn’t mean you need to shoot less in some cases. Because at the end of any run you jump into the valkyrie, and if you still has ammo at this point, means you could have shoot more on average during the run.
It didn’t but it neither made it worse for those weapons that were fine.
Few days ago i was playing my bolter vet, there was Exestance plasma vet in my team, brauto vet and ogryn.
Ogryn was almost pure melee, i was like 70% melee and overall just on support role (and fighting packets loss or something), brauto vet was shooting hordes the whole run, exe plasma vet was shooting the rest of enemies. In the end we droped ammo crate in the valkyrie.
Tbf though, every game is different with respect to ammo drops. This is why I believe people using their experience as rebuttal isn’t particularly useful.
I’ve played loads of games where I am the “shooty and looty” one… Other players barely opening crates or shooting - yet there has been almost no ammo in any crates. In contrast, some games where we are all shooting have seen plentiful ammo.
The randomness of the ammo drops by the game director fluxuate a lot and doesn’t help the situation tbh.
Partialy yes. But it’s not just one example. Like i rly feel it’s mostly about ammo indicator color
i’m not gonna shoot i may need this ammo later
grabs some ammo
shoot a bit
i may need this ammo later
mission ends - has unused ammo
And i keep saying this in every thread - i feel they increased the chance to find crates (or players looting boxes now) but it’s almost every run 2 meds 2 ammo.
