??? Literally all 3 early toughness gain options work on shooting, one of them limited to elites/specials, one of them limited to weak spot kills, one of them just killing by any means. Pick up the appropriate 2 of these for your weapon and any gun can generate a LOT of toughness by shooting. Of all the complaints to have about Vet this one makes zero sense to me.
Yeah brauto just isn’t great on Vet these days. Unironically probably better overall on IJ DoD Zealot, Stripped down benefits Zealot playstyle more too. Fixing close range back to 15 m would definitely help but I tend to agree I’d like to see more options to build into weapons like brauto/autopistol in Vet tree. The lack of spread/recoil reduction outside of Exe in Vet tree is criminal. I often do run Exe on brauto despite it being suboptimal just for that feeling of actually improving effective range but it’s pretty cope of me if we’re being honest.
All pretty good options that help a backline shooty Ogryn generate toughness. Not saying some of those couldn’t afford to be a bit stronger or work better across all ranged options but saying toughness gen options don’t exist for the shooty paths still seems bizarre.
Also frankly kickback and Rumbler are currently too strong to justify good toughness gen while shooting them, though PBB and lynchpin still definitely do good work for them.
Ehh, I try to describe my usual experience with teams running low.
If team runs low people will hold there shots more which means stuff (especially specials), they hesitate to preserve ammo. This also goes for my personal ehm… Psychological experience or whatever. Running out of ammo can be very dangerous, so you try not to, because you don’t know when a random 3 flamers/trappers/whatever shows up in your face that you really really really have to kill right at that second.
Don’t get me wrong plasma is fine ammo-wise. Still going for exa stance isn’t a stellar experience (maybe in premades it is). Add to that the fact that charged shots are kinda useless currently and I’m not really feeling it.
For brauto it’s just… Not exactly bad, but it doesn’t feel good to use on vet anymore.
Otherwise it might be the different experience as @MadMartigan said.
I had the same experience with Bolter. Throwing dagger cancel switching Bolter with IJ’s AS and Zealot damage boost feels so much better than anything I could build on Vet with it.
I guess my main problem is that Vet just doesn’t feel like it’s offering anything substantially different on the shooter front and some of the bit more ammo demanding but somewhat fun gunplay just got tossed into the ammo hell.
i think survivalist nerf encourages toxic behavior, like running ahead to have agency on the loot crates, i found myself doing this waay more since the patch launch, i was already looting most of the ammo pickups in the map before (with material looter’s privileges), now i just started to build just for that, its unhealthy
also i’m shooting more, cause most players are willing to give up their ammo quota when they see someone running red, so i’ve come to exploit that, when i wasn’t really paying much attention before
and on top of that, i run with fire team aura now, cause running survivalist despite being ‘‘still better than the others’’ makes me feel like i’m a worse version of myself, so i just try to escape that
Imagine using your own behaivior as a hostage and to summarize why a mechanic is bad.
Suppose it’s Helldiver 2, I’ve never seen anyone go ‘I have to grab 3 supply packs because my grenade pistol is empty’ or ‘I can just steal my teammate’s support weapon so I don’t bring mine’ and demand the dev to change it so that supply pack fully refill everything /remove FF or lock support weapon usage to its owner because they’ll act toxic otherwise.
People been complaining for such behavior for ages, now that an experienced player feel comfortable endorsing such behavior shouldn’t be a good sign for anybody with a speck of common sense
before this update i was looking down on those players, now? I think they might be right to do so, and now that i’m into that i can confirm is quite fun
You can’t/shouldn’t balance around selfish anti social behaviour. You should definitely disincentivise it where possible but giving more resources than reasonably needed to counter hogs is absurd. Oop some players are eating all the health stims so better flood the map with them to ensure there are enough to go around. I just don’t get this line of thinking at all.
For context I’ve never kicked anybody but if anything that is the appropriate response to selfish players, not showering them with resources.
Look I made this thread because every other started or turned into some nonsensical balance debate like “Vet is worthless” vs “no Vet is totally OP” non of which is true, accurate or important for me in this matter. I can play hybrid build just fine and it’s viable, but that’s not the point.
The last thing I really felt made Vet stand out for more shooter focused gameplay is the still pretty large ammo pool due to Scavenger with the caveat that actually you didn’t even have to play Vet for that, just had to have one on your team. It obviously wasn’t good for ammo economy and that’s why I started with that point.
Again, I want to have human class that makes shooting as fun to do as Zealot makes melee.
I’ve stopped running survivalist for my las builds. Ammo still feels effectively infinite due to crit build.
Vet’s problems are a product of compatibility. He is perfectly able to use Marksman’s Focus, a 1a with Headhunter+Deadly Accurate, and a crit-las build to be shooty all match. The problem is that it doesn’t mesh well with enemy spawns. Exec stance is the worst since it outright ends if you pull out your melee which none of the other ults have happen iirc, but Vet has a severe ‘has to tunnel vision’ problem where they specialize in countering ranged enemies which every other class can do the same thing without the sacrifices vet makes.
Clearly a matter of personal preference, but last time I checked vet had talents and abilities which if combined / mixed around could give you 60%+ more ranged damage, 55%+ weakpoint damage, +75%+ finesse damage, guranteed crit chance, + 50% reload speed or “magical” reload on melee kills and…more. If that doesn’t say a strong range class, then I have no idea what does.
Veteran as a class remains strong and desapite what some of the silly people on this forum and elsewhere claim, hasnt been ruined by the Survivalist nerf.
I just might start responding to these threads with one screenshot. This is the game post-nerf, with no vet in sight and as far as I remember 2 trigger happy gunluggers… Look at the ammo counts. That ammo crate at the very end of the map is full. Hysteria is a word which comes to mind.
This thread is an excellent collection of survivalist nerf screechers making claims like “gunlugger is ammo efficient, vet is not” and “vet doesn’t have toughness restoration options for ranged, and neither does ogryn”, then ignoring proof to the contrary just to make nebulous statements like “But it’s still not fun”
just play a different game. This will never be a ranged only game, and that’s a good thing. There were people whining about ammo shortage even pre nerf, I can dig out the threads if you like. It’s a player skill issue. Not even tripling the amount of ammo survivalist gives would solve it.
Speaking of: Fatshark’s tooltips are as obtuse as usual. MF has a node that says ‘2% toughness replenishment per stack of MF’. Does that mean it replenishes 6% of my toughness per ranged kill/2% per Camouflage proc?
I think toughness replenishment is a passive stat that solely affects the base toughness you get from a melee kill on any enemy (I think it’s 5% by default)
so having +50% toughness replenishment would make it so your melee attacks give 7.5% of your max toughness instead of 5%. I could be wrong about the numbers but I’m fairly certain this is how that stat works. I don’t remember if it affects coherency regen too, but it’s possible. Now why they put it on marksmans focus? Who knows
For contrast, the wording that actually gives you a % of max toughness is “replenish %x toughness” (exhilarating takedown, confirmed kill, out for blood all have this on Vet, and all work on ranged)
