Yet another Vet feedback write-up

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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Hello, this is my first post on DT forums, even though I’ve been playing solo quickplay Damnation+ for months, lately switching to Auric missions. Only played other difficulties with low level friend who’s still learning and lvling up characters. I have 800 hours in the game and played all 4 classes, even though I enjoyed Vet the most because of their iconic WH40K weapon selection.

Unfortunately, you guys at Fatshark completely screwed up Veteran.

1. Decreased ammo indeed makes the game feel worse, just like other posters said, but especially for Veteran players who rely on ranged combat and ammo availability more than other classes.

Plasma Gun, MY FAVORITE WEAPON IN THE GAME, is now barely usable, because in Auric missions you spend ammo faster than you can gain. Last mission I played with Plasma I couldn’t even restore full ammo unless I used an ammo crate. I constantly had below 100 ammo on Plasma during said mission, and no ammo pickups were in sight… I know it’s considered endgame content and it should be played with the best builds for the best chance of success, but this was not the case before the recent patch.

2. You’ve tried to add more variety to building Vet, but ultimately restricted people to using the same builds again.

Damnation+ players know that now “Lasgun Rending Veteran” is the new go-to build. Since you guys nerfed Vet’s ammo passive, only with lasguns you don’t constantly run out of ammo, especially if there are other players with ranged-focused builds to compete for ammo. Why does the left skill tree path has both the “lasgun ammo save on crit” and “25% additional ammo”? You make so that one weapon type has good ammo efficiency, while others are starving for it, unless you always go for the same talents which some weapons like Plasma Gun, revolver or shotguns desperately need.

3. Support Veteran is kinda fun, until you realize it is ultimately pointless and its design is mostly carried by weapon choice and Krak-grenades, rather than the shout ability and its support talents.

I like the part where you press the ult as a support Vet and they scream, “For Cadia!”. Other than that, this “subclass” feels very weird-- like a worse version of trample Ogryn. Since you won’t be dealing insane amounts of damage during your ultimate and you now also have less ammo, you absolutely need Krak-grenades for this build to compensate for the lower damage output which defeats the whole point of build variety in this new system.

The shout ultimate is great for buffing everyone’s toughness, but the node that lets you resurrect teammates is a waste of a skill point. Sure, it might save people in situations where you’d save them anyway, but has myriad of issues in practice: it doesn’t resurrect teammates if they’re held captive, during a horde you can’t even get to your teammates to use it (unlike Ogryn with his trample), and you’re better off just spamming the ability to give them toughness while they are still on their feet.

At least it’s not as awful as the other resurrect talent in the right path of the skill tree…

4. Smoke grenades and the whole stealth build for Veteran is probably the worst build path across all 4 classes.

Stealth build for Zealot makes sense, because they are already engaging enemies in close combat and are often the ones saving their downed teammates, because it’s easier for them thanks to their i-frames on dodging, sliding and their undying passive. Not to mention Ogryn with their 500 HP with full HP curios and uninterruptible passive. When it comes to Veteran, stealth doesn’t fit all that well.

You want the most squishy class (along with Psyker) to constantly risk engaging enemies in close combat for what? To use now completely underpowered due to ammo economy shotguns? To save teammates when Zealots and Ogryns can still do it 3x better? You want us to use this ability during the horde events to do the objectives? I guess that makes sense, but does it really help all that much with its short duration and high cooldown time, or can you simply do without it?

Smoke grenades have a lot of issues too. They decrease visibility for your own teammates, unless you take a talent which highlights enemies for everyone during your ult. With other grenades, you instantly get their value and know what they are good for, but with smoke grenades you have to constantly guess the best time to use them and wonder if they’ve done anything of value at all.

And FOR THE HOLY GOD EMPEROR, all those stupid melee nodes in the right path… I guess it’s kinda good now since you guys ruined ammo gain and now you have to melee as Veteran much more? I feel so useless when instead of killing specials with precise headshots I have to spam melee on a once long range-focused class…

Remember when several months ago people used to say that Vets who melee too much during fights are really bad players? Well, now every Vet build other than lasguns is like that…

In conclusion?

  • Revert the ammo drops change or at least let Veteran gain passively more ammo.
  • Give a buff to shout ultimate to make it more reliable and make its talents more impactful.
  • Rework stealth skill tree along with smoke grenades.
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Some people are saying that vet was nerfed cause some 1% pro-players elitists want it to be so.
But i’m 100% sure such thing like nades that provide nothing realy was some casual player idea “oh ah would be cool!”.

It should give atleast +crit chance/+damage vs smoked enemies, or something

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Or the smoke grenade smoke actually blocking enemy line of sight rather than just cloaking players inside the smoke cloud like the ranger’s ult in VT2.

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They do, but enemies shoot at your last seen position so it gives the impression that they’re still shooting at you if you don’t move. Also, if you move into a position that isn’t being blocked by cover or the smoke they will reacquire you.

On top of all that, people that pop smoke on their feet like they’re cartoon ninjas drive me up the wall. The way you use em is by popping them on the enemy’s position or between you and them. You should only use them on yourself if you’re being hit by a push you can’t countercharge even if you blind the shooters and gunners behind it.

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They don’t, I’ve had gunners track me while I was moving to flank with smoke in between me and them, with neither of us in the smoke. The only time they don’t track you is when you’re standing in the smoke.

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I’m just gonna repost the suggestion for smokes I made in another smoke thread:

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Maybe smoke grenades should have been choke grenades, putting out a large cloud of gas that instantly suppresses and keeps suppressed most enemies that are not monstrosities. I think it would accomplish mostly the same thing as what most are using the smoke grenade for.

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Isn’t that basically what Zealot’s stun grenade is?

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Good point. Choke grenades were the only similar thing I could think of to the smoke grenade that solves some of the issues the smokes have. Maybe hallucinogen grenades then that cause enemies to attack each other.

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Yeah I made a long post about this specifically. You quickly realize the Ability, and Ability upgrade you take doesn’t matter because they all do the same boring stuff - damage and/or toughness in the most flat boring way possible.

And the worst part about all this is they are so bland (15% attack rate) without any internal or external synergies. You can have some crit strike… with nothing else to build off of it. Instead of the Zealot and Ogryn both not only do it better, but they have internal synergy creating new and fun builds to play with. Heck the Psyker has way more internal synergy with his melee talents.

I would love to see his melee tied to his range WAY more, they clearly started that thought with Agile Engagement. Add 5+ more, and make the buffs last longer 8-10 seconds (since you have to swap weapons, short duration buffs don’t make much sense unless they are really strong)

I would have loved to see the same amount of creativity put into the Vet Abilities as were put into the Psyker e.t.c.

For some funny ideas I just jotted down in my free time - like it isn’t hard to think of thematic and AWESOME abilities that the Vet could have been given that would actually mix up builds and change how you play:

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I had this recently, two players who would drop there smoke right on us on a last stand making it impossible to hit anything not at mele range. we were soon swarmed by berserker.

I think an option would be to drastcly reduce attack speed and/or damage of ennemies in the nade smoke so you can go batman style and strike them inside in mele while they struggle to react in time.

maybe with a stagger when it start
Or make the smoke bigger so you can actually move inside from position to position

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Instead of smoke grenades I wish they had just given vet combat stims. Darktide totally lacks potions like Vermintide had, so it could be a fun, unique, and very thematic option for vetern to have.

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i get this , they really should of done something sooner its like the power sword all over, the vet was meant to be a ranged specialist not exclusionist , not taking a step to fix it for a year and actually bring in what was intended ie for ammo to actual be a resource that needed to be managed is just going to annoy people and quite rightly

After all this time of just being able to use the heaviest weapons full auto 24/7 on every pox walker horde suddenly asking peopel to choose when its worth it just isnt going to go over well.

there are though a lot of builds that can still maintain vets position as best marksman and use ranged option for the entire map , you just need to use more ammo conscious weapons, seen peopel use recon , las , hellbores, plasma, laspistols, headhunters etc

2. You’ve tried to add more variety to building Vet, but ultimately restricted people to using the same builds again.

im sorry but this just isnt true, at least in EU we already have vets that are pairing old skill with right keyston for lethal short range bolter builds, hybrids of melee and range running the centre skill and various combinations of bottom legs.

Maybe its different in your area it takes a while for ideas to spread but there are definitely builds there to find.

3. Support Veteran is kinda fun, until you realize it is ultimately pointless and its design is mostly carried by weapon choice and Krak-grenades, rather than the shout ability and its support talents.

how about the shout isnt a support ability for a support build its an “oh poop” get out of jail free card and your not a pointless support your the frontline pusher not just top tier in melee but also able to snipe specials also the first contact using your speed to avoid and precision to remove before the back line snipers can even get sight on .
turn entire packs of ai shooters into poxwalkers to chew up with the frankly game breaking op smoke grenade or pop oggies and monstrosities with awesome krak grenades , now your carryine one more , regenning one a minute and 5% on any elite+ kill you have grenades for days
im saying hes not a back line support play it differently use the huge durability aggressively he has speed , lethal in melee still has access to the best long ranged guns , hes apoint man not a medic.

4. Smoke grenades and the whole stealth build for Veteran is probably the worst build path across all 4 classes.

i think you have a solid point. Infiltrate looks so bad it is currently the only class skill in patch 13 i havent tried i just cant even conceive of that being any use.

but the ol smokeys dont need to be used on stealth , they have to be the best thing added this patch. bit of a skill floor but a great smoke user controls a run.

You want the most squishy class (along with Psyker) to constantly risk engaging enemies in close combat for what?

its the game design philosphy tide games are hybrid systems melee and ranged.
For risk
for pressure - challenge - partial fail state.
to increase variety of gameplay
expand the skill set

games often feature undesirable states they exist for good reasons, if you couldnt die or run out of ammo it trivialises the game. likewise a ranged class being forced into mellee is like a mlee class getting pinned down, it brings in a chance to fail, winning at chances to fail pretty much describes gaming. it ads reliance on team mates it fosters co ordination it gives more reasons to look about and see how the team is.

and vet is in the top 2 for durability i think you could argue him or ogre and make a convincing argument.

And FOR THE HOLY GOD EMPEROR, all those stupid melee nodes in the right path… I guess it’s kinda good now since you guys ruined ammo gain and now you have to melee as Veteran much more? I feel so useless when instead of killing specials with precise headshots I have to spam melee on a once long range-focused class…

sorry no way to say this that does come off as a bit harsh but if you have no ammo to kill the special your there to kill you made bad choices. thats working as it should.

i am not sure how you are building your ranged marksman build but i didnt take any of those right hand melee leg nodes in mine. i did heavily with my Hybrid builds, i leant hevily into the right and used a lot of the middle that seem to be good for both.

its like you have choice and diversity or something

Remember when several months ago people used to say that Vets who melee too much during fights are really bad players? Well, now every Vet build other than lasguns is like that…

No, no i dont vets had the single most powerfull melee weapon for like a year and could delete entire hoards with ogre and rager packs mixed in by face rolling around the keyboard. is this really a good faith argument?

i agree about infiltrate. but sorry nothing else. i do sympathise for the loss of the infinte ammo days. all just personal opinion of course :wink:

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Go to the official Fatshark youtube and watch any video you like that showcases the vet and isn’t trying to show off new melee weapons or whatever. Pretty much all of them show the vet blasting away into hordes of trash with full-auto autoguns or las weapons.

They’ve advertised that sort of gameplay from the beginning. It wasn’t a mistake that needed a “fix”.

I’ll accept that some weapons, like the bolter, were too accessible given their raw power output, but lesser weapons like autoguns and lasguns and shotguns should absolutely have enough availability (ie, ammo) to be considered primary weapons. I should not have to contend with my teammates to see who gets to have fun this run.

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I think you might have lost your marbles friends. VoC vet is pretty durable and you can play engage, but holy crap it doesn’t even come near Zealot or Ogryn. Not like the rest of your post is any better.

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Sounds like a case of “skill issue”

Stealth is incredibly useful because you get immediate toughness and no aggro, always lets you revive one person for free.

Lasguns are far from the only viable guns in auric damnation.

Melee is the base of the game you’re gonna have to do it at some point, pretending you have to melee because you can’t find the time to hit weakspots with a gun is impressive.

The class is no longer the sit in the back camo turret and you actually have to press more keys than m1 and consider more teamplay to stay alive? wack

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Stealth is incredibly useful because you get immediate toughness and no aggro, always lets you revive one person for free.

Stealth by itself doesn’t let you revive anyone “for free”, that’s not realistic. On Damnation+ hordes can be so big you literary can’t get through enemies to res your teammate, since stealth still has collision. If they’re surrounded by ragers, maulers or even bruisers, you can’t help them up before killing all of the enemies around them. Shout ultimate is way better than stealth at this. You can wait for it to go off-cooldown while blocking the attacks on top of a downed person to get them back up without being locked into an animation.

Lasguns are far from the only viable guns in auric damnation.

Never said they are the only viable gun, just the one that doesn’t run out of ammo constantly if you’re doing your job and not waiting for everyone to catch up on killing enemies around you.

Melee is the base of the game you’re gonna have to do it at some point, pretending you have to melee because you can’t find the time to hit weakspots with a gun is impressive.

Yes, good Vets only melee if common enemies surrounded them and their guns run out of ammo. In Auric missions where multiple bombers, mutants, snipers and tens of shooters spawn in each area sometimes without a break, who in the right mind would melee instead of using their ranged weapons on a class not designed for melee combat. Even in stealth as Veteran you’re always SHOOTING after coming out of stealth, and not using insane melee oneshots like Zealot.

On Damnation+ you always have something to shoot, unless it’s a horde without any specials (barely happens on Damnation+ nowadays). There’s a difference between using your melee when needed, and being FORCED to use it constantly because you’ll run out of ammo.

The class is no longer the sit in the back camo turret and you actually have to press more keys than m1 and consider more teamplay to stay alive? wack

This was never the case. Everyone had to dodge enemies, everyone had to complete objectives where enemies come from all sides and you had to move. Not to mention, I’ve never used Camo Expert, only ever ran the passive that gives you 75% damage reduction to tank shooters for the team. But since you’re so passive aggressive for no good reason and think that every Veteran sucks other than you, I decided to skip through one of your recent stream to find a moment where you die in two hits as Veteran, just because you let some of the weaker enemies get too close.

00:54:20 Hab Dreyko last sequence, if I embedded it incorrectly.

So much for a class that needs to melee.

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the mistake i was refering to was in not fixing the ammo economy sooner, by leaving it this long people have taken it as intended and now they move to “fix” it its going to rightly annoy people. its the power sword all over again peopel got used to the crutch and when it was taken away…

i completely agree that unloading a bolters should be a spectacular and effective thing.

this is called going ad hom , by making me insane , it automatically invalidates my point of view, it is usually used when you cant win on facts , ecause im just plain nutso he doesnt have any burden of logic or proof to make his case. thats brilliant!

i say the vet has better toughness, more relaible damage reduction and regen as it functions both on ranged and melee i would also rate the vets pushback to be better than the zeal charge but i can see that being argued . the zeal wins on health and depending on path has the death dodge talent.

offensively the vets right there on melee he has some nutso talents atk speed and rending the zeal can stack damage , but the vet still has the better ranged mix up

i can see either making a strong case.

but also bear in mind this is a shifted goal post my post was made against the Ops claim of

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I don’t care what OP posted, saying VoC Veteran is the top 2 or maybe the best durability class is just plain insane, and

I call a spade a spade.

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You dont need krak gernades, frags are fine but other than that you are spot on

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