80% of those choices in the skill tree where either passives you get by default as just being a level 1 veteran (Ammo, Weakspot Damage) or abilities that got spread over multiple abilities (the bigger they are) (counter fire) etc.
Skill Tree are NOT options when you forced to follow a certain path to reach your goal.
This is options, when i can choose what I want, and not forced to choose passives/actives because some ability is buried down in a specific tree.
because of a single mistake, of an upgrade i dont use you stated that āI dont have a zealot characterā. I used to run Perfectionist with Thunder hammer and 1 tap bosses before the nerf.
both can be used for defensive or offensive, as zealot stealth is much more spammable (can be readied instantly depending on RNG) can be more versatile.
the twin charge is good , but 60 second cool down is too much to handle, just to keep one as reserve.
played both, chain sword/ Power Sword MK 6 with Stealth & Thunder Hammer II/Knife/Evis MK XV (15)/ chainsword. Veteran melee build is fun, but not as good as melee zealot.
no need to take things personal, when you disagree with someone.
Hilariously veteran is together with zealot one of the classes in the game where you canāt be locked out of any talents. So no, Vet actually has MORE freedom than psyker and ogryn atleast, and a tiny bit more than zealot, who has to pick an active ability modifier if he wants to use chorus. So arguably, Vet is actually the class with the most freedom in building. Thereās even viable Vet builds where you can choose not to pick a keystone because his talents are all so good.
No theyāre not, list them. Other classes also had to ārebuyā things they had by default, additionally.
Then why are you acting like you know how much stronger it supposedly is?
Veteran has a good CDR talent too that makes his abilities very spammable
the 6 second cooldown to specials only? yeah spammable vs poxhound wave (hunting ground) . very great usage of stealth ability.
unlike zealot, 1-2 hit with chainsword , Ulti ready again
you have changed what you typed, although I listed some of the examples you demand a relist, also their passives was not removed or nerfed ,or even split as veteran had gotten.
full magazine reload on volley fire?
60% toughness on volley fire?
Refresh when highlighted enemy killed?
(those 3 was single node)
50% base damage to ranged damage on volley fire?
75% damage to ogyrns? (was in package with relentless & The bigger they are) achievable over 3 nodes. but still less damage by 50%.
25% damage to shooters? (was in package with relentless & Counter- Fire) now non-existent
75% toughness damage reduction with volley fire ability?
15% weakspot damage (with level 1 you get)
40% Ammo capacity (with level 1 you get)
4x Grenades (with level 1 you get)
200 toughness (with level 1 you get, cant be regained even if you take all toughness in skill tree)
Ammo Regen Aura with 1-2% ammo regen
what worse can it loses?
how did you manage to group up zealot tree with veteran? i would be happy if they going to make veteran tree similar to zealot , rather than this mess.
You started listing things entirely unrelated to the claim that ā80% of veterans talents are just stuff he already hadā
Even then you listed like 8 of those skills. Veteran has 80+ nodes. Can you do the math and show me 80%?
Additionally, every other class ALSO has talents for things they had for free before the talent trees. But they only have 76 talents on average. Veteran has 99. Does that not mean veteran has more NEW talents?
Some enemies cannot be suppressed, having things clip through walls is nothing new either.
It is to 6 seconds, not by 6 seconds. So the total duration will be 6 seconds.
Yes, offense will pretty much always be better then defense in this game. But if you read the abilities you can see the intent behind the Zealotās stealth ability reads like it should be used as a offensive tool, while the Veteran stealth read like it should be used as a defensive tool.
About me calling both stealth abilities comparable to one another, or that I called the veteranās version a defensive ability? not that it is supposed to be used as strictly defensive tool and using it to engage and suppress shooter groups makes it a potent offensive ability aswell.
also this is going to be my last reply here, as it seems you taking things personal rather than having discussion, as I saw you in multiple forum topic doing the same. have a great day.
I think itās very funny that I ask you prove what youāre saying (80% of talents are reused) and when I ask you to list them to prove itās 80% you say iām taking it personally. Arenāt you the one taking it personally because youāre embarrassed you lied?
This just makes it even more funny that you claim Iām taking it personally, just because you canāt explain how you got to the number ā80% of veteran talents are just recycledā
I notice this is a common theme among people who canāt defend the lies they spout. They start acting like people who call them out on them are just haters
Just calling it a defensive ability. I think the best use for it is to pair it with ādamage boost on ultā and itās own damage boost node to use it as 5-10 second huge power boost or to engage on shooters. I find myself poping it to quickly take out elites faster.
It of course can be used to get out of a sticky situations as Zealot Shroud, but itās kind of a secondary use.
Not disagreeing with this, since I do this aswell. But the reason why I called it a defensive ability is that by reading both descriptions you can clearly see that the intent behind the Zealot stealth is an āoffsensiveā tool and Veteranās version is for ādefenseā, even if it as youāve said that best use is using it as a offensive tool regardless.
So I just got back from a couple Auric runs just to see how much difference it makesā¦and uh, no, lasman vet seems perfectly viable to me, at least using VoC. Will be testing it next week with Lucius/Exec build but VoC lasman seems perfectly viable.
Running K12 with Deadly Accurate III and Headhunter IV, and MkIV chain sword with rampage and bleed. Kraks, VoC, and the basic Marksmanās Focus+15 stack increase.
Itās quite fun to use if you have Raking Fire as a blessing as you can just nip behind a pack and let rip. Though I would say maybe a level 5 tactic rather than anything higher as you donāt really want to be that far ahead of the group in maelstrom.
Executioner Stance could definitely be buffed by making several of its properties baseline, and then changing the other nodes to provide buffs for more than just ārecoil reduction for guns with good weakspot damageā. Thereās a lot of rich getting richer you could list but things like Columnus could have like 30% of that sweet crit modifier lopped off and it would still be insane DPS.
In general though Veteran became one of my second most played classes from the least after patch 13. Mostly because of how actively grossed out I was by his old 1.25s stamina delay, like there was no melee oriented veteran before. But the old Executioner Stance was absolutely gutted, which makes no sense if the argument was it was too tanky since shout Vet is basically 100% uptime and even stronger with gold toughies/iron will interaction.
have you ever heard the tragedy of darth kerillian the wise, its not a tale fatshark would tell you
these devs are simple minded creatures, they have the data on what classes you are playing most, so if people prefers to play veteran over the other classes they balance the game accordingly
for an experienced player point of view they are just making the other classes more boring, and veteran more challenging, it would be interesting to see if the % of veteran players has gone down in these months
shame they donāt care so much about the % of overall players though
Thank you for the input, my idea is not just buff or fix everything i pointed out, yeah donāt want to be the class to easy and OP to play with, or will be no fun.
Yet, the large amount of issues undermining the class, and how cover system is still broken and one-way smokes/gas is common, makes the shooter part of the class just frustrating to use.
This is still useable, sometimes i do similiar build of VoC + Damage over range nodes, as Kanteral gets higher damage to targets at longer range.
It have some breakpoints, as in 1 shot rager if critical hit+weakspot, or full stack+VoC Damage boost node+weakspot+crtical hit to mutant. But not that great, although its fun yet i always perform much lower than other teammates or even my other builds.
