I replied to basically this take on another thread so I won’t repeat myself here. It just wasn’t the case. Shooter Vet was just close to trash even before Survivalist nerf.
Peril management which is basically an upside in most cases and charge time that require less than timing your reloads correctly…
Yeah give it a different aura, and give old Surivalist as a passive to Vet, or increase ammo cap by 60%.
Rant
Anyway I tire going through the same points over and over again. Yes Hybrid Vet can do good, 30/70 ranged/melee split go! Only Ranged play allowed is quickswap unless you are an Ogryn or Psyker of course!
God forbid you want to shoot something and not count remaining ammo the whole game. Don’t forget to give a pray to the Emperor the only you need pickups! Good luck scavenging whole game for ammo!
It’s clear neither the community testing team nor FS wants to make Vet ranged play into something enjoyable. The fear that it might come close to the 3 other classes or even Hybrid Vet is just too high. Better nerf Vet ammo cos shooter Vet was already worse than Hybrid!
only if suppressing did work well, currently sometimes it suppress enemy even behind walls, but does not suppress enemy infront of you.
The duration is longer , yet the cooldown is also longer by 15seconds, also that the duration of zealot stealth can be longer by choosing the ulti upgrade “veteran stealth → 8 seconds” “zealot stealth → 6 seconds (with upgrade)”, as for movement speed at the same tree a 10% increased speed.
Peril management is an asset when built for it and playing right. Same as vet managing his ammo and not magdumping into hordes.
Ammo cap increase would be more than enough. No need to give survivalist as a passive.
You might wanna play a different game then. This is a tide game, even more so than Vermintide. This time you’re not even a named character facing impossible odds. You’re not supposed to be blazing 24/7
I don’t know how you’re getting this. Ranged play is massively enjoyable and you can still play 80/20 range/melee split vets without issue. I’m seeing it daily and also had no issue.
Stop magdumping into hordes for cheap dopamine hits
I feel like both you and @Jonn are wrong about Infiltrate/Shrouding field. Both are good defensively, and both are best used offensively while having slightly different uses.
Infiltrate is a lot less spamable of course making it better balanced overall (or weaker depending on the way you look at it).
Neither do I, their upgrades are loosely spread out and with little buffs here and their, they are decent and the cases I survived armored waves with grenades are alot, never said they are weak, but as a grenadier build player, I suffered alot after the nerf with Patch 17.
yet they require many upgrades to give them their true potential, vets are forced to spend 2-3 nodes on grenade buffs due to average by default. especially that you get low amount of nade by default.
Totally agree , yet fatshark are keeping a blind eye, many posts and still nothing new, need to remind them again and again.
pretty much though ammo was still an issue for “some” weapons , especially when they nerfed the “fully loaded” & Survivalist (Patch 13 nerf).
am not really encouraging a rushing with minimal point expenditure, yet with many keystone upgrades and essentials spread out , the only way if fatshark not willing to overhaul the skill tree , allowing a faster way to reach the keystones is a way to fix the issue.
Alright I give up. It’s no worth bothering further. You keep believing what you want to believe and hope that FS will give into pity and buff Vet ammo in some way. Not sure what else to tell ya.
The irony. You provide just as little proof for your argument as you accuse me of doing. Yet my statement is a lie. Since you’re unable to manage your ammo I reckon you enjoy learning to melee. You might even have fun by accident.
I personally think the take that shooter vet was (or is) trash is just outlandish. You could bring a braced auto into a game and just rambo everything down excluding crushers and bulwarks and be basically invincible so long as you could keep exec stance up. Same with the “stand still and just click every head” kantrael builds before the enemy HP buff.
Now you can still do these things but you can also do it to crushers, also the survivability was (rightfully) nerfed and now you have to dodge and slide while doing it. Only significant factor that changed is that now you risk running out of ammo if it’s literally all you do and you don’t efficiently scrounge for it. I said this elsewhere and I agree that’s maybe not the best game design but I think you have to be out of your mind to claim it’s “trash”. I’m literally playing brainless shooter vet for turn-brain-off fun in auric maelstroms and it’s just killing everything and I don’t struggle with ammo. I don’t even know what blessings i have on my autoguns, that’s how simple it is.
This isn’t even mentioning the fact that there’s fully new extremely strong playstyles caused by the powerspike patches, such as columnus IAG marksmans focus gaming. Extremely ammo efficient, kills EVERYTHING in the game including bosses, 0 brain required. The only stipulation is that if you don’t melee, you have to pick up ammo from boxes. Again, you can argue that’s bad game design but you can’t argue it makes the build weaker.
Vet stealth is way more defensive as you get two charges of it (keep one in the cooker always basically which allows you to ALWAYS have a panic button no matter what) and suppresses every enemy upon coming out and gives you max toughness instantly. It also lasts 8 seconds, the zealot one lasts 6 seconds if you use a talent point for it and has no toughness restore unless you put an additional talent point. Meanwhile the vet one is completely usable with just one talent point invested (or none if you don’t want double charges)
You’re also not reading properly and arguing about things you havent played. It doesn’t increase it to 9 seconds, it increases it to 6.
I truly and honestly don’t understand what people like you get out of whining about “comparative balance” when it’s actually insanely obvious you didn’t play either of these things. If you’re gonna compare atleast play it first to see if it’s really so much better. I’m guessing you don’t even have a zealot character
Braced auto was kinda bad even before the Survivalist nerf. You can run it on Zealot and get more mileage out of it.
To prevent repeating myself constantly here is my most recent Brauto take.
What are you talking about? You already had to do that.
I tested autogun after the nerf playing several games and I could only do that if the team allowed me to take all the pickups, and of course I was running around the whole game from that. It’s not a good experience for a build that wasn’t great even when ammo was more abundant.
This was a ridiculously OP combo I already talked about that I hated, since the whole thing was exploiting Marksman’s focused with it.
Now after the Survivalist nerf it’s also gone the hybrid route. I managed to run out on Dreyko end event just by shooting shooters/specials because the team only managed to find 1 ammo crate and it was dropped before that.
It was a prime target for a nerf, but not by reducing Vet’s ammo count. Hell, I’d still nerf that gun or the interaction at least.
BTW I don’t get this combo take of “You can shoot as much as you want, I’m playing brainless shooter builds constantly!” + “If you can shoot as much as you want it will be just left-click and it’s boring and bad.”.
Nah old exec stance allowed you to just facetank shooters no dodging required so long as you dont run out of stuff ot kill, it was genuinely stupid busted. This was with the old, more powerful shooters mind you. It was one of these things that everyone said was bad because they couldn’t wrap their brains around a veteran actually walking up to enemies, since at the time the camo vet playstyle was the popular one.
I’m also often still magdumping hordes and don’t struggle with ammo (other than as I said, running up to boxes sometimes). The only thing I’m prohibited from shooting carelessly is lone ambient enemies. I don’t consider that a point against the weapon, thats prime melee material and always has been in this genre.
Again the argument that having to look for ammo in boxes isn’t a bad one. But it doesn’t make the playstyle any less powerful. It’d be like saying the laspistol is a worse weapon because of how you have to keep clicking it (sans mods). No that’s just annoying, the performance is the same.
Ah you meant pre-patch 13. Yeah I played braced pre-patch 13 a lot, it was my second most played on Vet after plasma.
Loved it really, matched it with Chain axe against armor, and bleed nade against shields and you didn’t really run out of ammo ever, while not being as stupid as autopistol.
Still, dodging was required, but that isn’t a point.
Anyway, current and pre-Survivalist nerf Brauto is nowhere near pre-patch 13 level, it isn’t even close. I’d really like Brauto to feel good on Vet, but if I want to play it I just go for Zealot.
I’d say offensively it’s even better but it’s a more active playstyle now. You now have the option to kill carapace efficiently with a brauto which elevates the weapon. Plus vets new skills lend themselves perfectly to the playstyle, like the focus tag for killing big targets even better, and literally every active works great with it. You do more damage to everything else overall compared to before now. Its usefulness is also elevated by meta changes like how there’s way way more ragers and maulers around now, and more specials, which the agrippa brauto atleast punches through like it’s nothing.
The only differences are as I said before that you’ve got to dodge and slide now since you no longer have infinite DR from exec stance. Plus you have to pick up ammo a little bit more intently, but it doesn’t get to the point where I mess my team up with it. I can pick up 14 ammo pickups on gunlugger ogryn with no vet, nothing speaks against picking up 14 ammo pickups on my vet with survivalist to reduce the need for ammo for my team even more.
Someone else mentioned this but a lot of the “not enough ammo” complaints seem to stem from the psychological idea that picking up too much ammo is selfish. Especially if you have survivalist it isn’t, you’re literally giving your team 2 ammo kits so they don’t really have an actual reason to complain about you taking many of the small and big pickups all over. Being at orange ammo isn’t bad either depending on where in the level you are, so long as there’s ammo pickups coming up that isn’t a drawback.
I’ve been playing this along with shotgun builds (also often complained about, and I dont even abuse the manstopper/flechette thing) and I genuinely don’t understand the insistence that it doesn’t work anymore. It’s good on zealot too to be sure but I don’t see how it relates.
