Return the Passives - Veteran

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Thankfully, Veteran tree got mostly fixed with all its issue, yet in patch 15, many passive perks switched into collecting stacks, making a player strictly playing to gather stacks as in.

  • Middle Tree VoC
  1. Not able to spot for his team as required , even if a more lethal target approach, to not waste stacks.
  • Right Tree Infiltrator
  1. Cant run around with ranged weaponry, as it wastes all stacks gathered, also stacks are very short timed, using a bolter almost removes 50% of stack timing
  • Left Tree Volley Fire/Exec Stance
    Crouching behind your team and lingering behind, while also the main ammo resupplier of the team, is kind of anti-teamwork.

This is the passives that have been removed just in patch 15, not in 13 or 14.

Nerfed Stats: Veteran Patch 15
Confirmed Kill on Specialist or Elite kill 25% toughness instant, and 25% over 10 seconds → instant gain 10% and 20% over 10 seconds. Old Overall: 50% → New Overall 30%
For the Emperor Combat Ability gives you and players in coherency 20% Ranged & Melee Damage for 5 seconds. → now gives 10% Ranged & 10% Melee Damage.
Marksmen Combat Ability gives 50% Weakspot Power. → 20% Weakspot power
Bring it Down old name was The Bigger they are…, Damage to Monsters and Ogryns 25%. → 20%
Close Quarter Killzone 30% Close Range Damage on Combat Ability → 15% Damage now
Trench Fighter 15% Melee Attack Speed → 10% Melee Attack Speed
Duty and Honour Voice of Command Ability Modfier, Over Toughness 100 → 50
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Gutted.

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You forgot that toughness was gutted (literally halved) in patch 13, impractically gained back (100 toughness over 7 nodes) and impossible to get back after P14 (60 toughness over 3 nodes).

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Yeah i just added the nerfs in patch 15,

This post include all we lost as a veteran and not replaceable.

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Confirmed kill nerf was warranted and makes sense in context of it being moved to the top of the tree. It’s still pretty damn good and very accessible.

All the ability modifier nerfs are also reasonable with their positioning changes. The new positions also allow even running all three at once which is a lot of bonus burst damage and was impossible to even run 2 together in the iteration of the tree that had them at higher values.

Duty and Honour overshield nerf also came after a duration buff as well as a VoC cooldown reduction compared to the original value. In fact this nerf was just a return to the previous value. It’s been heavily buffed overall since the original version. It is dishonest to paint this as a nerf overall.

Bring it down nerf is negligible and whatever, maybe unnecessary but unimpactful.

Trench fighter nerf just puts it on par with the identical Zealot skill. It’s technically further down the tree so you could justify a higher value than the Zealot skill I guess but it seems reasonable.

Latest iteration of Vet seems pretty good overall and I’m currently happy with it though definitely need more playtime with it to say that confidently.

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I agree with this sentiment, although I do agree with Reg that melee vet should be more focused on slower, higher damage/rending attacks.

My Plasma Gun build I ran without keystones to get 1 shot headshot kills on all dreg gunners can now get focus target. It is incredibly strong right now, at least on that one build. Need to play more with it in general, but imo I would like Vet to still see a base toughness increase.

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l wouldn’t complain but it feels better to me. Not sure what nodes exactly changed but picking up both +25 toughness nodes and I’m sitting at like 250+ toughness with all toughness curios. That feels pretty good to me and when when forgoing one of those toughness nodes it still feels better than before.

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True its decent, yet only pretty much usable Toughness Rewarder, everything else require either weakspot kills, which directly nullify multiple weaponary, although it require sharpshooter to farm specialists/elites, yet its the sharpshooter job, which makes it rewarding for player while doing his tasks.

Other only choice is weakspot kills, and keystones.

Yet tagging keystone pretty much hard to use, you need to tag weakest target , wasting the damage buff to gain toughness, and also require to gain tagging stacks again, while also not tag important targets until you get the stacks, kinda too much to do.

As for marksmen keystone, i didnt play much in auric with it to test it out completely.

yeah from 10->15 seconds, yet VoC cooldown got buffed, but extra toughness is a node on its own, anf 50 extra toughness for vet, which already lacks good toughness right now is pretty little, try activitng VoC while 1 scab gunner shooting at you, not even the “yellow” is seen, instantly drained.

Issue is that heavy attacks dont benefit from attack speed, the buff was decent going with axe only, maybe if it was a universal buff to heavy and light attacks the nerf would be alright.

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Are you sure about this? The animation speed feels like it increases for sure, maybe not the charging part of the animation?

Out for blood is honestly very solid as well. You should try it if you haven’t.

It’s pretty strong with iron will and seems to have some weird interactions like negating health damage from bursters (might require some TDR too?). I dunno dude I think it’s a pretty damn good node.

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While I agree, and personally dislike CK mechanic, nerfing it without compensation is just bad.

I think everyone agrees that building patch 13-14 vet was basically “Pick CK and IW and go”. While there was the possibility to do other stuff it was always weaker than just picking CK.

This isn’t much different now, and with CK nerf some power Toughness sustain should have been a bit redistributed or a new node added for this.

It’s my opinion that CK’s frontload toughness was nerfed to give place for the Tag keystone toughness gain node, and it just feels crap this way.

These just don’t work outside boss-busting. They are just generally weak nodes right now outside of very, very specific uses.

The middle one is the worst offender with its measly 10% bonus and 5 sec duration, Close Quarters Killzone is just a worse version of Anoit in Blood used with guns and Marksmen is just what was cut out of Exa stance, but also working with melee (but not with VoC due to enemies getting staggered to the floor).

If you take one look at Zealot Capstones they don’t compare favorably at all. These are just very conditional nodes with questionable bonuses.

I agree here, I find this fine. I think cutting the value in half is super heavy-handed, but the outcome is completely fine.

Boy, would I love to have stun immunity permanently like Zealot instead of lasting only 6 seconds every minute…

I mean god damn as useful as Get Back in the Fight is you start comparing thing like that and Vet instantly looks like crap.

IMO this change was incredibly bad and feels horrible. Make it capstone if that is required to make it 15%, and also make it affect activation time for PS.

Build diversity was helped a lot, but things like right-side melee Vet are still bad.

I mean seriously Cheerleader and Grenadier Vet got a lot better, but I’m sick and tired of it. Sure, let’s play team support for the OP classes that’s the way. I feel like an aura bot from an ARPG which was fine for 2 patches, but I kinda had enough.

If you are surviving with 3 toughness curios congratulations, but that’s not what I would call a good option. Again, my damn Ogryn builds have more toughness than my Vet builds at base while having more TDR than Vet with IW up.

Let that sink in. The Ogryn with 3x eHP and +1 wounds also has more effective toughness, it’s just madness.

Rant.

BTW I’m kinda just pissed that the side keystones are a piece of crap. I might just drop the game for a while. Got tired of making it work having to jump in hoops to get close to anything else the game has to offer while being forced into stupid playstyles that don’t feel good at all, while people on forums keep b-tching about the ranged class while Ogryn and Zealot remain absolutely busted.

Smoke Vet was the most fun I had the last month that build is downright crap that now has 1 more point to play with unless you drop Duck and Dive which just makes it less special. The whole build only goes for WS to load ammo into plasma, the thing even works better if you just drop the keystone and pick something else up.

They even managed to mess up the plasma making it “missfire” which just makes my all-time favorite weapon super sh-t to use.

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Here is a test, bottom is without 10% melee attack, top is with 10% attack speed.

yeah the 3.5% is decent, remind me of old vet with base 7.5% regen, yet its for melee kills, and new vet toughness is too brittle , barely toughness able to survive 1 burst of scab ranged infantry

They even managed to mess up the plasma making it “missfire” which just makes my all-time favorite weapon super sh-t to use.
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Even without ironwill, it drops your toughness to 1, its that VoC is kinda a failsafe to poxbomber. Also iron will is kinda of bad, with how low veteran toughness is ,and iron will require 75% toughness for 50% toughness resistance. before with old “Confirmed Kill” it was good, now not anymore, also with keystone update my toughness dropped from 197 → 177.

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Plasma got nerfed? for real?

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It’s not a nerf. They kinda fixed the damage inconsistency with the Charge rate, which as a side-effect makes the weapon get stuck in the shot animation or something. You still deal damage, but the animation janks out and there is no visible projectile.

Plasma feels horrible to play due to this. It happens in every game multiple times for me.

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I tried plasma lately.

I understood what you meant exactly, i encountered it.

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I haven’t tried it yet because I really don’t like the right side top quad node. Vanguard is fine, but Tactical reload is just a worse version of Volley Adept (unless you’re using a shotgun or Zarona) and out for blood only helps if you’re in melee, unless you spend more points elsewhere.

It does apply to Ex Takedown and CK right?

Or killing groups of melee elites. Which there are lots of right now. Making it pretty good.

This is wrong.

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I’m not sure I understand sorry. It’s just 3.5% toughness on any kind of kill. Helps out a bit while counter firing gunners. Helps a lot to recover quickly while fighting hordes. Gives you nice bursts when throwing shredder nades around. Stops enemies dying of bleed on a bleed knife setup from cucking you out of toughness due to dying of bleed.

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I thought it was more toughness gained on kill when you would already get toughness. I’ll try it out later. Probably not tonight though.

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Yeah no lol it’s actually hilarious when you compare it to Zealot’s blood redemption.

Blood redemption: 5% → 7.5% toughness gained specifically on melee kill.

Out for Blood: +3.5% toughness gained on any kill. So melee kills 5% → 8.5% but also nades, dots and your ranged weapon kills 0% → 3.5% toughnes gained. It might not be a lot per kill but the consistency and flexibility of it means it’s extremely consistent value on any build.

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