Veteran is just nerfed with every update

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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To this day, every class from the four classes got buffed & unlocked more builds with Patch 13, except veteran, got nerfed down, and became dull.

Nerfs over the updates

Veteran Class History over Patch 13->16 (2023/October → 2024/January)

Veteran potency has dropped hugely after Patch 13 (The Skill Tree Update) having a weird lengthy Skill Tree and lack of keystones, while removing many old passives and actives.

Got promised in Patch 14 as one of the three objectives of the patch was fix veteran, but it only lead to a worse situation , nerfing many passives, resulting in overall less toughness or HP depend on which skill tree.

Patch 15 (Anniversary Update 1) the main objective was to introduce keystones to veteran tree, which made the tree even longer than the already long tree, while also nerfing many of the previous actives and passives and adding it through the keystones.

Patch 16 (Anniversary Update 2) Shovels took a nerf to “Defense” modifier, making it worst modifier to exist right now.

Shovel Nerf

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Defense Modifier only gives 2 benefits with it, making it a lacking modifier for shovel unlike other melee weapons.

Patch 17 grenades took a huge nerf, killing grenadier builds, which impacted both Krak & Frag Grenades, reducing their damage by nearly 1/2, (Average Krak was 13K with Grenade Tinker, now it is 7K, now even with Combat Stim, it’s damage is 9.1K).

Patch Road to Redemption: (Scavenger Nerf & One Way Smoke)

Road to No Ranged, although buffs to marksmen tree (left tree of veteran), yet veteran lost his root, scavenger (ammo regen on specialist/elite kill), also buffs to marksmen tree didn’t consider what is wrong with the tree, as not being able to keep with your team, require to use knife to hastily reposition not to lose stacks, and was just universal buff. With it a new unit that throws gas, which is one way smoke for enemy ranged units, also as for the new gas modifier, which also reinforces the same issue of one-way smoke for enemy ranged AI.

Related Problems:

Issues Related to Veteran as a Class: Issues related to Veteran Class only
Extremely Large skill Tree all 3 classes node average is 76, veteran nodes is at 99 nodes , no matter what you choose you only gain 30% of the tree benefit, unlike other classes you do get 40% of what the class have to offer
Long Tree to Keystone 18 node to reach keystone in straight line is too long , other classes reaches faster and with smaller skill tree.
Large Amount Keystone modifier 6 nodes each with slight buff for a keystone, while with 30 skill points , and with overly extended tree its hard to manage, as 6 points is 20% of available points to utilize.
Ultimate/Active ability upgrades Loosely Spread Ultimate upgrades either gives slight bonus, or gives a debuff
Grenade upgrades are underwhelming/spread widely very limited grenades, while need to compensate within the skill tree, atleast 2-3 points are required for grenades to be effective, a node for getting 1+ grenade in inventory. node for extra damage, node for 5% nade on specialist kill.
Keystone Counters teamwork Mainly about Executioner Stance/VoC Tree keystones. As in Executioner stance you are required to either keep behind your team, ensuring precise hits or you are at risk losing your stacks, in a heavily melee game, losing your ranged stacks because you move kinda weird. As in Tagging, tags getting immediately removed if a player tagged something else, while also managing those stacks are purely passive, doing your role perfectly does not allow faster gaining in stacks or anything , even if a friendly player is in danger, or i want to spot a demonhost, i should not do it, so i wont waste my stacks.
2 Ultimates are still underwhelming Executioner Stance is still underwhelming even in term of damage (it gives 36% Damage Bonus on weakspot) , skipping it , going to VoC and to any Exec Keystones is a better choice, as it got striped clean in Patch 13. As for stealth ability, is quite out of veteran class scope, and just plain weaker and dull than zealots stealth
Keystone stacks requires project management plan tagging does not stockpile on target, you mark a target with 4 stacks, you would need to wait for 10 seconds (gain 5 stacks), to tag the target again , just to apply 1+ extra tag, while also tagging is not sticky.
All Toughness Regen based on kills always need to compete on taking final blow , either weakspot or killing target with melee. kill steal is required to gain Toughness, while also require mix of both keystone toughness and active toughness skills.
Issues Related to game mechanic: General game mechanic that affects shooter gameplay
Cover is Inconsistent Cover do sometimes blocks enemy ranged attacks, while sometimes ranged attacks are all headshots and just instantly breaks toughness.
Suppressing Fire is Inconsistent Suppressing works depending not sure on what parameter, not every time do ranged enemy gets suppressed, even when choosing Suppressing Blessing and 50%+ Suppression from skill tree.
Mobility & Dashing > Cover & Suppression its much easier to just dash+slide and rush into ranged infantry than engage them with ranged weaponry while also much more effective.
New pox smoke is one way smoke allowing shooters to target you through the pox smoke, while you cant see a thing, while also force you to relocate, and it bypass walls, makes it a worse shooter experience.

Summary:
With all those issues related to veteran as a class and ranged gameplay as a mechanic, really makes playing as veteran a frustrating unfun experience, not being able to perform your role and doing roles that other classes do much easier better and with less micromanaging.
Either than even caring about what they broke, we just got Hotfix #37, as if no post exists on their official forums, steam, reddit or discord.

we have seen:

  • Zealot not using any Ranged Weapon (except throwing knife)
  • Psyker with 0 Melee Damage
  • Ogyrn not leaving his left click

but not a veteran, its better to melee build as veteran than ranged build from how bad it is.

Many Similar posts has been written all over the forums but none has been addressed from October/2023.

References:

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide - The Traitor Curse Part 1 Anniversary Update - Steam News

OUT NOW: The Traitor Curse Part 2 Anniversary Update :: Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Events & Announcements

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide - Patch #13: Class Overhaul - Steam News

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Zealot’s stealth ability is for playing aggressive and Veteran’s is defensive in play. Unsure why people rate is lower though, the duration, movement speed and ability to suppressing enemies when leaving stealth makes it good for when you don’t want to rely on teammates. One of the upgrade nodes is just tacking on another form of Iron Will talent.

Stealth might be the best ability for a melee veteran, especially when combined with power swords or knives.

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Some of the stuff you wrote here is inaccurate and incorrect in some cases: 18 points to reach a keystone is about average across all classes, vet simply has a bloated tree with options you dont have to take. Not all toughness regen is on kill. I also see a lot of personal wishes how some mechanics worked and how powerful specific abilities should be in YOUR opinion.

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I would also like to see further Vet improvements but I can’t say I agree with much of your assessment on the issues.

I don’t think grenades are weak (well 2/3 anyway), I don’t think they need investment beyond the 60s regen talent to be very impactful, and I don’t think a bigger tree is inherently bad for him, what really matters is the cumulative bonuses you can get for investing 30 points into the tree, and a lot of the talents presented are strong, just some particular areas that need work.

Generally I think the keystones and left branch still need adjustment. Left branch has just a few too many talents you are forced through on the way down that aren’t impactful enough. I’d like to see some better gun usability buffs, I feel like Vet is would love access to spread/recoil reduction outside of Exe, amongst other things. Draw speed, fire rate, cleave, there are quite a few stats that could be played with that would help make it feel like you’re genuinely elevating your guns by committing to this path. Long shot, kill zone, catch a breath, and opening salvo are all prime nodes to rework into more impactful and interesting options IMO

Keystones have been talked to death, ammo sustain needs another look in after the survivalist nerf and that’s also been talked to death. Exe and possibly infiltrate too need some adjustments to be more appealing.

That’s my take on where the focus should be on improving Vet in the future. I don’t think there’s a heap wrong with the post ult branches of the tree besides Keystone issues. If anything you’re currently encouraged to rush down there with minimal point expenditure since you get so much value out of spending your points there.

13 Likes
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This. Weapon specialist knife veteran with invis and some of the red buff nodes an ability use can dish out some insane melee damage, way surpassing Zealot in a lot of cases. I’m surprised very few veteran players go for that playstyle though. Guess they’re married to the idea of it being a ‘shooter’ class.

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I can only speak for myself - I find the vet a powerful and fun class to play.

The weak keystone mean in return that you can ignore them without sacrificing to much. This frees up a lot of points for cross spending which can generate very powerful combinations.

At the same time the keystones are powerful enough that you can choose them for specific builds that focus around them.

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They’re almost there IMO. MF needs some mechanics tweaked to make it powerful with marksman guns rather than mostly just being the Keystone that makes IAG go brrrrr.

Weapon specialist could use some tweaks to smooth it out. On melee hit/trigger pull would be better triggers to make weapon swapping feel more natural with it. I’d also like to see the buffs apply with those triggers regardless of what weapon you’re holding, hellbore getting to use both bonuses without swapping would make for an incredibly enjoyable and unique build.

Sub nodes especially for weapon specialist could also use a look in. WS sub nodes are almost never worth it to my mind.

Edit: Oh and 5 seconds duration on WS ranged buff feels a bit stingy for a mid buff with a (relative to most effects) involved stack building leadup. Like 8 seconds still wouldn’t let you benefit much from keeping your ranged weapon out beyond emptying 1 mag but it’d feel less bad at least.

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Yeah, basically this. Whatever good Vet had have been just murdered.

  • Granadier builds? Murdered.
  • Special removal? Everyone can do that.
  • Being good against Shooters? Even hybrid Vet is better of dealing with shooters in melee than a dedicated lasgun build.
  • You want to shoot? Lmao, better scavenge the whole map and pray you are the only one who needs pickups. Shooting non-stop is not okay on Vet, it’s only for Ogryn and Psyker.
  • Impactful Ranged Blitz? Nah, just give it to Gunlugger.

All this somehow okay because you can play a competent support and melee build.

Oh, ranged builds on Vet are already subpar? Let’s just nerf Survivalist by 80%. Just give a 5 sec reduction to Exa stance which is horrible, that will fix it! Maybe also buff the Out for Blood too… Which was already great.

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As someone who’s been playing a lot of las gun vet recently for penance grinding+wanting those shiny new skull rewards…I don’t really feel this?

Like yeah Exec stance needs a buff and a bunch of options in the tree don’t work, but I can cruise through my usual level of Damnation play without dying to anything except Sudden Armor Chokepoint that would’ve killed me anyway.

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This is a thing I also miss very much. Moebian rifle squads used to be dangerous - I enjoyed the intense firefights with them. Even used to take a vraks vii hh on my zealot to deal with them. Now they are barely more dangerous than a walker horde. At the same time spawn behaviour has been tweaked to always have melee trash in your back so one can’t concentrate on firefights anymore. Pity - I enjoyed that very much about pre 13 DT.

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despite you’re through explination, it remains a skill issue.

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I remember back before patch13 seeing Zealot with a lasgun was a pretty normal occurrence to snipe specials and to deal with shooters when their skills or melee choice wasn’t up for a task.

Problem start at Auric where the density makes using las weapons just weak and a horrible experience. Add to this that melee is constantly around you and the game has a habit of spawning disablers targeted right at you if you spend more than 3 seconds in ads.

Even if you are a real sweatlord with twitch reflexes there is basically no payoff for the playstyle.

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Yeah then no wonder I feel fine. I still get some elements of melee backline trash depending on how good my teammates are at the ‘don’t let them near the ADSing vet’ thing (spoiler: Ogryns are great). Auric is probably a charlie foxtrot.

I also kinda miss the fire-fighty feel, melee used to feel more impactful with determining how and when to approach a gunline.

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Imo vet talent tree has a ton of fun options, unlike other career’s.
As psyker for example I always have points to move around (but that’s not a great thing) while if I had that amount of points to spend I’d cause absolute mayhem as vet.

You might be right about the pox gas, but than again vet is the only career with a counter to it limiting vision.

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So were you going to provide an argument as to wether or not the trees add up to the same powerlevel? On its own this makes no sense. Everyone gets the same amount of talent points to spend.
You’re literally spinning the fact that veteran gets more options than other classes into a negative.

I’m honestly not even gonna keep reading, seems like just the average vet player whinge thread. The more of these I see the more I am convinced Veteran is the new elf, and not zealot like people often suggest.

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People were just incredibly bad at everything else.

  • I play a lot of Zealot and it was hands down the greatest class for clutches and completing missions fast, especially when you duo.
  • Ogryn was hilariously overtuned. I’ve even made a post about it.
  • AB psyker could solo clutch to some insane level doing upwards of 800k-900k damage.

Vet had some ridiculously broken stuff too, mainly Autopistol, but it wasn’t far above everything else like everyone wants you to believe.

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Always has been. The reason zealot got a lot of hate first is that most Zealots were bad at engaging ranged enemies. While vets could just keep shooting from safety.

The fact that ammo spam has been toned down massively, forces vets to engage with melee. And a lot of those ‘muh ranged class’ amateurs suck at hybrid combat, hence the never ending vet salt.

Personally I think that vet is in a fun place except for his keystones. Weapon specialist is the only really good one. It makes up for that a bit by being extremely strong and buffing the melee output massively. Even without it vet can get insane hybrid setups due to all the options.

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I feel like Vet is targeted by some stupendous amount of hate for no reason.

I mean come on:

Never seen anyone saying the same about psyker which just can get 90% ranged play.

I mainly played Hybrid Vet since patch 13, and I just don’t get why it being available is a good reason to just nuke Vet ammo.

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Eh I think people have been saying that certain psyker staves are absolutely busted OP and have been for a long time. What’s the weakness of the voidstrike staff again? How many times did assail have to be nerfed again? Smite is also commonly accepted to be terrible design.

I think Vet gets the hate because Vet gets feedback like this thread often. Genuinely complaining that there’s too many talents but vets only have the same amount of talent points as everyone else. Like what does he want to be the solution here? Does he want less talents? Does he want “5% chance to generate a grenade when killing an elite” to be rolled into the talent that gives you CDR when you kill a special? Or does he want more talent points than every other class so Vet is finally on even ground? This kind of thing is typical and eventually you really start wondering what the damage is.

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Not the type of psyker I’m playing, but sure. Psyker has to manage peril, charge time and uses staffs that have far lower dps compared to vet’s ranged options.
The fact of the matter is that there was way too much ammo floating around. You could basically hodl left click with 1-2 ammo vets in auric runs. So yeah, a nerf was warranted.

Not what I said, mereley that spam left click isn’t a viable play style in a hybrid combat game. Vets not having to watch their ammo was the issue. Now they have to and I’m seeing a lot of competent vets in auric mael doing just fine. I also had no issue playing columnus/plasma vet when I farmed the penances.

The loudest people crying about the ammo nerf are the ones that never bothered to watch their ammo and kept spamming away because daddy survivalist took care of that. I’d rather the vet get a different aura tbh.

1 Like