Oh, I just wanted to close with smth encouraging and positive… In my opinion no matter how good is the moderation, you should learn how to stand for yourself. And the best way to not get griefed over a game is to remember that it is just a game. Honestly, from the whole post, this was the least thoughtful sentense!
1 Like
You see, I don’t think the players who call for a more positive community don’t know how to stand for themselves.
I don’t think this is a matter of strength of character, or even mental fortitude. It might actually be the other way around.
It takes a strong person to speak out and discuss an issue that some don’t perceive as an issue at all.
But as @Fatshark_Hedge puts it:
A griefer will usually make use of game constraints to cause irritation to players. Without any sort of mechanism to deal with them, you create an imbalance in the game.
It is unfair that a player has to play a patience game with this bridge troll to see who will quit first. If they wait for a wave to wipe this player and a wave never comes, as some maps can happen; or that player is holding a grimoire. This is not how the devs want this game to be played, but the freedom given to players allow it to come to pass.
If they patch that out, after some time, trolls will just find another way to troll. A human moderation team deals with all different issues and ensure the guidelines established by the development team are being followed.
I don’t think this is a thick skin matter.
5 Likes
So when you coming from work after a hard long day and after one our of trying the legend run someone shoots all of you down because he is not ‘cool’ with your playstyle. Or you meet every 2nd game some yelling guy who wanna plays your class. You should say to myself “its just a game”? Yeah buddy I can do that but let me do this 1 month and I will never touch this game again.
I think we all now its just a game but we love this game.
We wanna enjoy it and we know there are trolls. But if you ever played any other warhammer game you know how friendly the community is. With this post I just wanted to know if I’m the only one who is suprised about this toyic behavior.
Now this Post has over 80 replies. Seems there is something to talk about.
Have you ever read a story or watched a movie in which nothing ever happened? There is always adversity. Without an antagonist, there is no room for character development. It would be boring. And boredom leads to problems which lead to adversity/antagonists. People will always disagree. People will always lose patience with one another. Even if there is nothing to argue about eventually people will argue. Its in our nature. The world and the internet will never be the place you describe unless everyone in the world is dead. And it shouldn’t be, because once we stop changing and challenging each other, we are basically dead anyway.
2 Likes
you misread my post. i sincerely enjoy mistakes made by players just trying to learn the game, i wasn’t being sarcastic. i don’t feel they’re wasting my time =)
this is me too =) i generally like seeing people have fun play the game together, whether fail or no, and i prefer it if no conflict happens in my games.
3 Likes
I didn’t mean it. Telling myself that “it is just a game” helps me when I fail legend runs for two hours and then somebody screws me over for no reason when things finally started to go well. I say to myself: this is just a game, it could only hurt me as much as I allow it to. And it helps me personally. If you take it to close, you just going to burnout in a matter of days. You can’t expect others to never do wrong, you have to set some sort of a barrier. And I was thinking: if it helps me, it could help you, and if you are reading this topic, it may be smth that you need to hear. Maybe not, but at least give it a try.
I think a lot of accusations are not worth it. They come from people taking to much to close. Guy shot you in the back by accident (from what we know), felt guilt, left the game to not be target of your anger. Is it worth it to think about more then 10 seconds? I’m not shure. As a standalone, it is not. If it happens with you after 2 hours of trying to get the legend run done? Should he take hit for it then? Again, I don’t think so. From what I’ve seen - idea about this guy deliberatley screwing you over is your fantasy. Here we hear only accusation, but we hear no voice of the accused. And for me it is often not enough to prove guilt. At least in some cases presented under this topic.
Consider it as a friendly advise from a player who has been dealing with all sorts of bad manners for years. I’m not telling you it’s going to save you from everything, but there is a lot of nuisance that is just not worth your anger. It helps me, it might help you.
Yes, votekick is a must in my opinion. But any long-term punishments should not be implemented.
1 Like
After reading a good chunk of the posts it’s clear to me that there are many different opinions on this matter. Some people were even trying to defend a certain level of toxicity which kind of concerned myself.
I think toxicity in every form should be limited to the smallest possible ammount.
Also I think I should define here, what toxic behavior or toxicity means to me:
Trying to worsen the experience of other players (trolling, flaming/insulting), overreaction and the excessive use of swearwords, forcing other people to do what you want (in case of V II -> skills, playstyles, weapon loadout).
It is not toxic to point out that a partymember did a mistake or criticize someone if it is done in a constructive, non-insulting way.
That said I don’t think that forbidding toxic behavior has anything to do with censorship or that the internet needs a certain level of toxicity. If you’re looking for that there might be places you can go and then you’d choose to go there.
When I play Vermintide II I do not choose to get insulted or trolled by someone else. It’s nothing that the game promoted and therefor it should not be seen as a part of this game/community.
Some even compared the issue with reallife and that you wouldn’t care/cry there so why bother in the internet where the person who is toxic towards you even is anonymous.
That might be true but I dont face toxic behavoir on such a regular basis in reallife then I do in the internet. I mean outside of gaming/the internet the amount of toxicity in my life is limited to less than 10 times I’d say. Moreover there are strict laws what you can or cannot do in public. If I’d walk around outside and act like some people did towards me on the internet I probably had to pay a fine up to several thousand Euros…
Well to be fair much of European countries laws concerning speech are pretty messed up at the moment so that doesn’t say very much.
I have to say thou what worries me most is that the punishment will out weigh the crime. I would put most vocal actions quite low seeing as they can be muted. A punishment of lower rate on good drops for a time period would be my suggestion.
I would include exesive swearing in here as long as it isn’t targeted at other players . Some people uses games like these to get out there frustration and anger. And swearing when other people can hear it is incredibly therapeutic.
As for team kill or vocal slander joint with team kill or similar disturbance of the game should be punished more heavily. But the hightest should be TIME ban. Throw them out for a month or so.
Perma ban should only be used for the worst of repeated offenders. It should be used most sparingly.
There should also always be the option for appealing the punishment . People are biased, and there will always be those that use there power to strike at there political opponents or a category of people they hate.
Fatshark can’t double check every punishment, so there must be an option to call out if you think you been unjustly punished.
1 Like
Good question.
This morning I was grouped with a dwarf who kept running ahead of us. We mopped up mobs he ran past and cleared out hordes attacking from the rear. Near the end the dwarf was hooked (again, for the like 7th time) and went down. Despite there being literally 3 healing potions / medkits just 5 meters behind us he kept running forward while on white-health, knowing full well there would be no more heals between where we were and the final fight.
So I asked him, why are you running off with white health?
His reply?
“You guys never keep up. Everytime I am alone up front, and now I am mad!”
So he ran off with white health, got downed twice more before fight was over but luckily the rest of us at least played as a team so we ended up winning.
This is just one case, being the one most recent.
I think the game simply has too many kids in it who think they can just do it solo and that everyone should adjust to how they want to play.
Put simple, Vermintide 2 got a lot of attention which attracts new players and apparently a large amount of those players simply don’t understand just how much teamwork matters in this game. Sure there are game that are listed as “Co-op” games out there, but not many require the level of working together that Vermintide has. All it takes is one disabler to screw you over.
Anyways… those people will slowly filter away from the game. So right now I just ignore them. If they want to be disabled 8 times in a row while cursing out their teammates as if that will make people want to help you at all then go for it. Worst that happens is that we lose (which doesn’t matter too much to me, I’ll just start another match).
Sometimes it’s also fun to deliberately make someone toxic get screwed over too though.
E.g. if they keep running alone ahead of the group then the remaining 3 should just stop and wait. Eventually the toxic guy is going to get grabbed and disabled.
Here is the kicker though.
When you get to where he is bound and you can “Set Free” the player.
Don’t.
Just leave him there, bound and gagged, and roll on with 3 players.
That serves them right. Also funny to hear how aggrevated they get when they are literally being left behind when all they want is to run ahead of everyone.
2 Likes
Overwatch is a competitive PvP game, with ranked matches containing dozens of players and different mechanics for intended player interactions. VT2 is completely co-op focused and has no ranking aside from difficulty. The scenario in which Overwatch players abused the blacklist (getting rekt by enemy players who are only playing the game as intended) doesn’t exist in VT2. Blacklisting a player who’s always killing you in Overwatch was abusing the system, while blacklisting a player who’s always killing you in VT2 would be proper and expected use of the system.
VT1 has a player blacklist via mods, and it would be nice to see something like it officially in this game, even if it’s as limited as “block the player via Steam and you can’t see or join each others’ lobbies,” or maybe “votekicking a player will prevent them from rejoining your current session”. Either option would allow hosts in public games to stop a troll from following them around and constantly griefing, which is unambiguously toxic. It would also allow players to avoid being matched with people who do mean-spirited things like kicking right at the end of a match to deprive someone of loot.
2 Likes
giggles in HotS
This attitude right here, blame, whining, complaining, is one of the reasons why I think we end up with toxic players. The ones who talk about “growing tough skin” don’t even have the tough skin to post a valid reply without lashing out in anger.
I have had toxic players, I managed to avoid things getting worse by just posing easy, polite questions to guide their behavior without making them feel attacked, threatened, or like their ego/pride was at stake. These are the types of people who are likely to be aggressive.
2 Likes
This angers the soi.
But I agree, if you play with some fuggheads - just leave the game. That’s the best solution there is. An “avoid player” list would also be a great addition to the game if FS actually implenets it.
2 Likes
And yet here you are answering in kind, laying the problem you see on him and his way to express himself.
We can’t go around tone policing everyone. Just the same as we can’t demand that they agree to our point of view.
While he might said it in a crude way his opinion holds merit. Just because you disagree with it and the way he said it doesn’t mean me can just discard it out of hand.
The fact is that we have on our hands a generation that is much more sensitive then those that came became before it.
They have held protests in schools against words and demanded a ban on certain opinions for crying out loud. If we indulge them they will never learn and the rest of ous will have to suffer the consequences of a game where any emotional reaction can risk a punishment.
Some people get angry when playing video games, some voice that anger. That’s good for them. It’s an outlet, sometimes the only one they have.
And some people like to mess around with other people. That’s also fine. Pranking is ok as long as no one gets hurt. If all you lost was your time and your ego, then it’s okay .
If we needed everyone to feel nothing but happiness at the end of a game then competitive games would all be at fault. Because in them there’s always a loser. Someone annoyed and let down because another player. And that’s okay.
If we find ourselves in a position where one person is all ways doing it against ous then a blacklist is the best option. A few clicks and he can never do it again. You can lock yourself out from the players that offend you and leave them to those that can take it.
And guess what? That’s also OK
Not in this case, no. The topic here is that there are significantly more toxic players in this game than there were in V1. Which is partly due to the game simply having a larger, more mainstream audience. But just saying “deal with it, get thick skin, ignore them” does not address the issue of the OP. It says nothing about why there is a rise in toxicity and is pretty much a pointless post complaining that people are complaining about the issue. So in this context, his opinion is irrelevant to the issue being discussed and is just aimed to belittle and insult anyone who has acknowledged that the community is in fact, growing more toxic.
1 Like
He never states that there weren’t more toxic players. Only that he thinks it’s a non issue.
In his eyes this most likely is similar to kids whining that someone is mean to them because they don’t play the game the way they want them to play it.
And such In his opinion they simply have to learn to deal with it.
I dunno, maybe it’s the time of day I play at or I’m just very fortunate, but I rarely see anything negative. Let alone people being open hostile over another person’s playstyle. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced that or witnessed it happen.
1 Like
It was a toxic comment and flagged as one (or crude as you put it). I just used it as an example.
We could use a black list system for people we don’t want to group with. I’d go a step further and say I’d prefer a temp ban on vote kicked people to prevent them from jumping back into champ/legend and TKing.
I haven’t encountered anyone toxic yet. This is just from what I have read, but I don’t see the problem with having options.
Oh I have no problem with his comment being flagged, he probably did break a few forum rules with it. I’m just saying that you shouldn’t disregard it because you don’t like the way he said it. And insulting him back simply puts one in the same position as he is.
As for the temp ban on vote kick. Well think like this. You take three friends and then just sit in a game vote kicking everyone that ends up joining. How many do you think they can get time banned before there discovered?
Keeping all this in mind - You very well could be a terrible player and do terrible damage with your playstyle, don’t just blame everything on mean people.