Oh,I have screenshots and steam profiles, I did reach out to FS on twitter,but didn’t get a reply. Not really sure what(if there even is one) is the official channel for submitting such cases, and naming & shaming on the forums is against the rules.
not the common definition of toxic. i know you know what we’re talking about, stop trying to make it seem like it’s a petty topic. it’s not.
examples of toxic behavior:
- killing players outright because of accidental friendly fire then laughing or insulting and leaving the game / refusing to leave and handicapping team
- being very rude for no reason to players (line after line of abusive personal insults, not just ‘you are bad’)
- refusal to assist with the efficiency of the mission, maybe taking a phone call for 5 minutes and then scolding the 3 other players who are upset over the inconsiderate delay
yea, i’m gonna label this as a crybaby post. you’re insulting and trivialising a legitimate concern while deliberately trying to shift attention away to an unrelated topic.
toxic players ARE a concern for any gaming community - there’s a reason why there are block/ignore/kick/ban functions in many multiplayer games, because some people just find it fun in causing headaches and frustration for other players.
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talking about toxic players…
legend run, we said hi to each other, started the round and then…
maybe it was a mistake or something but he can say sry 
np if you hit me by mistake, rly! (how many sienna F’s did I take) aslong as someone says sry its okay ^^
but I have to say…50 games and only probs with this dude…
can’t see what happened. describe in words?
cant see the video?
dude shoots me at the start of the round ~1/4 hp lost, he lefts the legend run, he said nothing
So, at no point did they insult you or behave inappropriately, and yet you call them “shitheads” and say this was “abuse.” Sounds to me like they were just having a laugh trying (and failing) to speedrun and you could have left at any point during that run to not have your precious time wasted.
THIS is why people are so afraid of this crusade against “”“toxicity”“”. This wasn’t some horrible experience, and the “victim” could have just left at any point. And yet here you are advocating to record and report two players for a harmless prank. Unbelievable.
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er. when they say they are gonna do a teamplay run, this isn’t what people would have in mind. just running past everything and obviously resulting in a wipe because they’re killing nothing, is wasting people’s time. a player can leave when encountering their group, but i cannot believe you are defending them.
Damn right I’m defending them. It was a dumb joke they played there, which definitely is annoying, but to have people punished or even banned for something like this is ridiculous. The appropriate repsonse is to go “Oh, looks like these guys are being annoying douches right now, I guess I’ll just cut my losses and leave their game,” rather than “Oh, looks like these guys are being annoying douches right now, I guess I’ll record their grave crimes against humanity and try to have their accounts suspended.”
naw definitely not to that extent. i get your drift.
Oh my god, this is hillarious! How could you even be mad? How a little prank in a video game can be taken that seriously? I can see why you don’t want to play with them again, but as a single shot - thats cool! I mean, you didn’t get the W, but is it that bad? A speedrun like this coundn’t possibly take more than 15 minutes , I bet even less, and it’s a unike memorable expirience that’s going to stand out for a long time. That’s just great. I see how you can be all grumpy and mad, calling out for teamplay after a couple of bad runs with people doing stupid stuff without realising it, but this is just hillarious! I really want to encounter those guys now! And I don’t see how this is toxic, it’s a humor. And it’s not like they wounded you any way shape or form, or insulted you personaly. If you got into their lobby 3 times in a row, it’s not their fault as well. If you got salty at them, well, maybe it is because they don’t take game 2 seriously, or not as serious as you do. And there is nothing wrong with that.
I think a large part of our disagreement here is because we have different view of what we mean with toxic players.
Currently many think that the other side is too lax on the worse end of the scale and the other side think there to heavy on the “not so bad” kind of trolls.
If we put down a basic premise of what players have to do to get into a category then we can probably more easily agree on what punishment (and if any is needed) is suitable for the act.
I advocate the report and stand by it. If moderators decide to act on it is their call.
Even what I see being called a little prank in this discussion is being punished by the progressive wave of weeding out toxicity.
But I don’t think this was harmless. Consider this, @GrottenOlm and @poplavok418: when something is considered harmless by the devs, it is never censured. Which means it is not considered wrong. For @Mojo, it happened once, but what if it becomes a running gag and 50% of the community begins doing these “speedruns”? Even 10 or 20%.
Let us try and be empathic, and put ourselves in the dev’s shoes. Is 15% of the community doing “speedruns” something bad for my game? We wanted 100% of the runs to be a fun experience for all four players. What was 1% now is 15% and we didn’t tell them we thought this was wrong. Do we chastise them now and risk hearing “but you never said this wasn’t an ok joke”.
If one or two players can have their fun in that way, nothing stops everyone from ruining runs if they see fit.
You say “this was just one case”, consider how quickly things escalate on the internet. Vermintide 2 currently does not have the necessary systems to deal with this.
However, please consider the opposite: if you do a positive run. No “speedrunning”, no hate-speech, no trolling. If everyone does that, 100% of the players. No problem, for everyone, I think.
I agree with @Revius, there is a natural discrepancy between what each player considers griefing and trolling. It would be great if we could hear from the devs a bit more! If you have time, @Fatshark_Hedge , please stop by!
They could have informed people about it,that’s one. They were playing normal until we crossed the wheat fields. They were doing it in every game apparently, and if they were doing an attempt at speedrunning they could have just made a PRIVATE GAME Your argument is invalid.
“IT’S JUST A PRANK BRO!,IT’S JUST A PRANK!” - this is like the callsign of every shithead.
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Really simple: turn off voice chat, I had to after I was told to KYS during my stream yesterday.
You guys are making mountains out of molehills. I am not defending people ruining others’ experiences in a mean-spirited way by bullying or harrassing, but the only one slinging insults here is Mojo himself. I am just very uncomfortable with the idea of players being persecuted because they “didn’t play the game right” according to someone else. Some guys doing some dumb stuff a few times doesn’t immediately ruin a community, but everybody being afraid of ever doing anything fun or even silly because they could be persecuted for it surely will.
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Bullies use this phrase or similar wording to publicly validate their shyte behavior. and I keep telling people not to let them slide when they say it the phrase above or similar because it will just give them an excuse to do it again.
BS your actions do have an impact on others you should be more considerate. I know your parents taught you to be considerate.
stop trying to validate bad behavior…
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I understand what you mean, that you can ignore them. But check this post from the community manager.
There are things you can’t mute it out.
I’m sure there is a discord between what people think is playing it wrong and playing it right but, in the end, it is Fatshark who will decide. Not “someone else”.
@GrottenOlm, I don’t think you should call it a persecution. Real positive players won’t harass others.
But if the devs implement a moderation system, I’m sure they’ll line out exactly what is allowed and what is not. If there is a grey line, and someone falls within it, I believe they’ll be allowed to discuss it in a civilized manner with the moderation team - as it happens in other games (like this and this one).
And I think everyone should always think their actions through before following up with them. If it’s fun or silly is irrelevant.
If you have any real cases of a community being ruined by everyone adhering to user guidelines, please post the source for reference.
Okey, let me explain myself on this one in detail, and why I think that it is marginal, but fine. And then I’ll go into what I feel “toxic”.
I’ve played a lot of V1, 900+ hrs over almost 2 years. That’s a great number. And I play for fun, not win rate. I know I can win as much as I want, but it’s not that satisfying to me now. I find my fun in experimenting with different weapons, strategies and playstyles. I am very exited for game 2 having 15 careers on top of almost 60 different weapons! As a next logical step: I like to play with weapons (and now classes) I am bad at in order to figure them out. And you can imagine that often it turns out relatively bad for my teammates. As such, I’ve been offended for playing handmaiden over waystalker just yesterday (and yes, I was bad that game). So, if I play with class I know I am not good as, with weapons I struggle to figure out, and, as a consiquence, I am an achor for my team, should they blame me for wasting their time? Shuld I only play in private games if I question my skill with setup I want to learn? Or is it fine to play publick quickplays in unconventional way? And if you say “yes”, but think that surprise speedrun is a bad behaviour, how do you draw the line? (they could have told you, a bit of rudeness there, but on a low scale) In general terms it is almost the same thing. They played game unconventionally and their experiment failed this time. And if you disagree, than what the point of 15 careers and almost 60 weapon choises?
I reaaly think there is no such thing as playing the game in a right way and in a wrong way. If I would encounter smth like this, I would love to try it, because it’s fresh.
Mistakes and doing bad (often because of the luck of experience) is not a toxic behavior in any way. And yes, you can once again say that they are wasting your time, but is it a bad behavior or just a bad play?
Then what is “toxic”? For me it is verbal or ingame harassment, doing or saying things that you know are going to hurt others because you want them to feel bad. (In case of upmentioned speedrun - I agree that it is marginal, but I would call it harmless) I actually left DotA because community was extremely toxic. I had a year break from the game and just couldn’t get back, because people did not tolerate my rustiness and were extremely rude to me. Outright swearing, or pushing your allies to “death” by your actions for no other reasons other then to offend them - toxic. Making mistake that leads to your team losing the game - totally healthy. Keep in mind, sometimes it is hard to draw the line.
I’ve heard about the case of (if I remember right) german pal, who had been reportet by other 9 players in DotA pub game for not speaking russian, when he was on EU server. Sounds absurd, but I don’t think that any kind of “report bad player” feature is going to do well. It is abusable, and people are biased. Without the “court” it is hard to resolve comlains like this. That’s why I only want to see positive feedback (like a GG feature in gwent), where you can show your respect to a good player, encouraging people to be prosocial over system that punishes people for being rude.
Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to share my oppinion, that seem to be different from what I’ve read so far. Hopefully it was helpfull and less provocative. And don’t forget, that it is just a game.
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I dont see a rise in toxic players… just a rise in elfs tanking in legend…
Now when we get an elf replacing the bot elf… #DownGradeIncoming
I understand and respect your opinion. There are levels of toxicity. It is why there isn’t any automated system to deal with it. It’s usually reviewed on a case-by-case by a moderator team.
I hope more tools are implemented into the game soon, to deal with toxicity and griefing. I think it is currently in a state of balance, but we can already see some posts popping here and there.
What exactly do you mean? I’ve seen this in the past referred and interpreted in different ways.
I agree with the sense that we should not go aggressive over this. But then again, there’s rarely any case where a community is best served by its members losing sight of reason and tolerance - not only in games.
However, I disagree that, because it is a game, it is not worth being discussed seriously.
A great many deal of people worked really hard to create this game, pouring their heart and dedication into it. To trivialize a discussion striving to improve its value is uncool.