The Crafting Memorial; lest we forget

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1430

Deep Rock Galactic, Baldurs Gate 3 Early Access, Final Fantasy XIV come to mind as examples. All those games are great success in their own category becasue they listen to dedicated part of community that only is present on forums or their Discord channels. “Silent Majority” don’t care about game enough to bother, so there is no point in listening to them. It’s same as in workplace, you don’t want to hear ideas from people who don’t care enough, don’t participate and don’t want to be bothered, but from those who are engaged and who are involved in projects, that care about its success. When you make survey for customers - same, only those that care, are upset enough or want to have better experience will participate anyway. The rest simple don’t care. But that’s why we have “statistical sample” in science.

Your argument is nonsense. All surveys only target people that bother to take part in it. When you make surveys/polls in cities for example, you make them in city centers becasue there is large amount of people there. Obviously that will include more of X demographic (middle-class for example) and have less presence of other class (upper/working class). When it comes to cities for example it does involve additional work (like representation of certain groups) but video games are closed spaces so it’s easier to survey. However if your statistical sample is big enough you will get accurate (minus margin error) data on general popuation opinion. That’s proven by statistic science so you are not smarter than that.

If they did poll here, on Steam and reddit - it would still only include people who would bother or care enough to take part in it. However, that has no impact on statistical result as if statistical sample is big enough - it will be accurate. Obviously like in every survey and poll ever - only people who care to participate will participate.

There is no “Silent Majority” term in Statistics. It’s some sort of false argument players came up with to cope with fact that people seem to don’t like what they like or disagree with them so they say BS like that.

My man, game has barely 10-12k active players per day. It’s really easy to get enough statistical sample for such survey/poll. And you have 3 platforms for that: forum, Steam and reddit. Don’t make something that’s not complicated overcomplicated.

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1431

There’s a sample size calculator^ breaks down why and how you would get a good enough amount of people to represent overall trends in the larger group.

I think you’re right one individual person shouldn’t speak for everyone, but you can get poll data and ask people and once you get enough feel relatively confident in concluding the sample size you got reflects similar, or the same, feelings of the larger group.

And yes you could say it’s a bandwagon fallacy and you should use the rhetoric of your arguments in and of themselves, the issue is if the arguments turn to doing something that appeases a large group of people than it turns into trying to ascertain who they are and what they want. Rather than what’s rationally superior.

Fatsharks a business, I get it, they need to pay for the server overheads… But I think this RNG is hurting their bottom dollar, not helping it a long.

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1432

The silent majority is what pays for your game, not opinions of the vocal people on the forums. DRG, BG3, Factorio, and a whole host of other games listen to their communities but they also double check that what the community says actually makes sense.

Now, I actually do believe that crafting is having people leave in droves, but I can only say for sure for my friends and myself who have dropped the game.

I’m not sure if we are just talking past each other. I’m not saying that you should not voice your concerns. I’m a broken record at this point, but I am saying that all your arguments should be based on your own experiences and not your guesses of what other people might or might not think. Let your arguments stand on their own two feet. Claiming backing from other people can be risky if the company has the internal numbers to show that you are wrong.

Assuming it is big enough yes. I’m not sure what you are saying here. I think a poll can be a good idea, as long as you take into consideration who answers. I’m just not convinced that enough people would answer, but that’s something else entirely.

Anyway. I will continue to speak from my own experiences and stay well clear of putting words into other people’s mouthes. I’d like to see this game fixed, but it’s also clear that Fatshark’s idea of fun is not my own, but I also play games like Borderlands and Diablo despite the mind-numbingly boring loot grind rather than because of it.

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1433

Some very good conversation points here, deserving of dialogue, imo.

These are very different monetization models here, pals. Most of these titles have no additional monetization, or such that’s clearly aimed at supporting the studio, should you wish to.

FS love them some in-game monetization, which is a whole other kind of business. That said, I’m not quite certain the 40$ average price of the game is what pays for it, as evident by the focus on MTX, FOMO etc. As a personal example here - I’ve effectively purchased the game another 5 times over through my MTX purchases. I know some people who barely play the game, but would religiously purchase pretty much every new skin. And I know some who are entrenched, but pretty much every new rotation and still play the game - these can be considered whales, I suppose.

I would love to see a breakdown of the earnings of DT, but that’s never happening.

I’ve given my examples several times, both in terms of personal friends whom I invited to purchase the game at launch, and friends I made through the DT Discord - most no longer play, and the crafting was the largest complaint. Some still play from time to time, and they have either come to ignore the system entirely or still gripe about it. And some never stopped, and continue to gripe about it. I’ve not a single example of anyone who played or still plays, who didn’t mention the system or did so in a positive light.

I myself am a bit of a weird case - the game has no more consistent challenge for me and I too often find it repetitive in a very bad way, but I would definitely sink new hours in it if I could experiment more freely and with less tedium. It wasn’t exactly the crafting that eventually made me leave DT behind, but it sure didn’t help at all.

I another thread I’ve come to call the crafting a dead asset. I can’t see what positives it brings to any level of experience with the game, there are obviously plenty of negatives, and yet it’s maintained.

There was a time for polling, that was about a year ago. We had one poll, for what it was. There should’ve been more. I’ve said it many times, and I’ll keep saying it. At this stage, any results will be inconclusive and extrapolatory.

In this case, FS’ communication strategy is lacking. A good example here would be BG3, who released a recap of the first month (I think…?) of play, with statistics about player choices, character creation data, how many people reached what parts of the game and when etc. I’d very much love to see the same for DTs one year anniversary.

Alas, we can only speculate and give personal examples. None of this has any real merit, past an either decent conversation, or one mired in internet talk and talking past each other.

In conclusion - I think there’s some good value to be had in polls even now. And I think it shouldn’t be up to upstanding community members to keep them, same as it shouldn’t be up to select such to test new patches of the game. These are part of the company’s duties so far as GaaS is concerned.

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1434

Quit being so pedantic in your technicalities.

1435

Most of those people don’t care about tailoring the experience. They’re fine with the broad strokes, and will quit when something bothers them. Sometimes something they can’t put their finger on.

The ones who do care are on the forums arguing about proper sample sizes.

The same ones who also tend to play your game the most ie the core community who keep it alive between the big patches, and growth spikes are the ones who have the most insight into the games flaws.

I remember playing Loadout, and being part of the core community who cared enough about the game to go be on the forums warning the devs exactly what would kill their game before launch, and what would stop them from keeping players.

They of course did not listen. This should be apparent since I’m sure most of you won’t even recognize that name, and the rest who do will go “OH YEAH. I forgot about that game.”

It was extremely frustrating. I’ve seen enough games with promise die even before that one from “you think you do but you don’t” dev mentality, and we can warn them, but it won’t matter if it falls on deaf ears.

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1436

why do you spend so much time on so little to say.

why does this thread still exist. it’s one dude taking people’s usernames down without their consent as far as i’ve been able to see and pretending he speaks for them.

why does anyone bother spending any serious time tweeking their guns. 98% of guns are perfectly usable when you get ‘em on damnation if you ain’t a lil’ bietch. yeesh.

1437

Why do you still keep coming back lol?

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1439

Trolls gotta troll my guy, dude’s gotta make something bad up in his head to justify him being better

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1440

If you bothered, every name I take I respond to the comment that says it hates RNG, and/or came from them liking this post, liking threads about hating RNG or them making a post. And I always @ them so they see their name being added. Go ahead. You tell me which name doesn’t belong after reading through all the threads.

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1441

Bro this is a videogame forum. We’re all here to play with action figures, settle down.

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1442

All I want for Candelmas is a GIANT WARHAMMER TO OBLITERATE THESE HERETICAL LOCKS

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1443

Why are you still here?

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1444

At least Badwin (for as much of a shill as he is) isn’t just a complete unadulterated prick about his contrarian tripe as this one… there’s a reason I’ve popped the latter onto a permanent ignore list and not the former…
I’ve seen literally one positive, constructive post from the bloke and everything else has just been dismissive, vitriolic or needlessly combative.

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1445

Sorry, this is no longer a Warhammer game but a Warshovel game.

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1446

There is a itsy bitsy tiny detail you missed called BREAKPOINTS…

if you miss 2 or 1 tapping specialist by a handful of leftover hp cuz your weapon roll cockblocked a few % dmg or penetration and you really squeeze out every dmg perk from you build its sucks…

but wait you suddenly remember +25% maniac might be fixing the issue, but gosh darn you switched 2 blessings cuz earlier you thought the 20% flak and the 10% reload just fine… and now your options literaly LOCKED OUT.

Well back to square 1 and start farming plastel lubrication for mommy hadron toaster slot… agin…

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1447

A hard lesson. I always check breakpoints before I craft in the Meat Grinder. Learned this lesson in PoE not by breakpoints, but I essentially lost an item because of the way a certain keystone known as Elemental Equilibrium.

Bricked an 11 ex wand by slamming cold damage to spells on it as a Cold DoT build + the exalt used to brick the damn thing.

…Never again.

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1448

But did he do it to himself?

Sure, he pulled the lever but he didn’t put the slotmachine there…

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1449

I’ve seen a lot of dumb crap from you but this is in the top 3 for sure!

CatFish herself said that this thread has stayed open for so long in part because FS wants to see the feedback and discussion happening in here!
Quite literally the best reason to legitimize a threads existance and you ask this banger of a "I have no clue what I’m saying’- question.

I couldn’t come up with a way to make myself look dumber if I tried.

It’s “one dude” that writes down usernames “without consent”

My guy, he informs every single one that they have been added and has actually removed some which wished to no longer be on the memorial.

That point aside, it just makes sense to compile all the threads regarding crafting into one or at least all the individual users that voiced similarly minded feedback.

And he never spoke for anyone else or claimed that this somehow makes him the voice of anything.

Stop taking whatever it is that you’re taking because you’re not just seeing sh!t that ain’t there, it’s making you see the opposite of whatever you’re claiming to be the case.

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1450

i didn’t miss anything, they’re useless to care about unless you’re constantly our of helping distance from your team. you and teammates should be combining fire on any serious targets, not competing for kills.