I don’t really understand your response. I’ll try to give a response but i might of missunderstood.
Why should a boss event or a map event not take longer or go faster depending on your career choices and team comp, if we try and balance skittergate event for example around a comp that has all tank and cc careers and weapons then it would make the event with a ‘normal’ comp super easy. And right now the events discussed here are fine on legend with a ‘normal’ comp and also with a ‘less normal’ comp it just takes a bit longer, i would say if you go into skittergate with bad careers/weapons i wouldnt expect to kill it in 2 mins.
I might of gave an answer completely wrong of what you were asking
Imo when you design any sort of map you should strive for a goal of say… 20 minutes for a run through of said map on average. This is actual length.
Once you add certain events (which can also vary on length) or boss fights that should take the initial timing into account with obviously some variance. Skittergate is both very long and has 2 guaranteed bosses one of which can technically be a 2 stage boss (rasknitt being immune to damage on deathrattler basically equates to 2 life bars depending on which boss you focus).
When it comes to the careers in general they are pretty good event wise but with boss fights you have some outliers when it comes to far too much burst damage to the point of pretty much one shotting a boss (Skarrik Spinemangler/ Bödvarr Ribspreader). This becomes a greater problem when you have Quick Match throwing certain team compositions into a map that may or may not exactly suit them which will then reflect on the time of completion.
The longer a match goes the higher probability of taking damage which is why boss fights are rather imbalanced in that regard.
Imo there should be some sort of formula that takes certain aspects of a map into account and bosses themselves or careers that do a ton of damage to them could be looked at. Like if you have a high burst damage character a boss that is dealt that high damage would lose health but gain temporary health based on the damage which could then be chipped away with further damage or you simply need to avoid the boss to let the temporary health dissipate.
For Skarrik Spinemangler’s case you could have a Bounty Hunter get a double head shot on him and he’d gain a massive amount of shield in which case another shot wouldn’t then kill him like how it is now. A team composition that would more or less melee him to death wouldn’t generate such a big shield of temp health and could get through his base health at a comparative rate. The disparity between class damage wouldn’t then be so huge as it is now and certain bosses wouldn’t be made trivial in some cases. The team comp with Bounty Hunter getting that 2 head shot crit may still finish the boss faster but not nearly as fast and that gap of completion would then be smaller bringing about a certain amount of balance as opposed to what we have now.
When? It’s not as insanely out of line as it was immediately post event changes, but it’s not been anywhere near “nerfed a metric ton” for months now.
If a single finale is causing more wipes than any other in the game, the issue is the finale, not the difficulty chosen. Maps should be roughly similar in difficulty, which they clearly aren’t at the moment.
When you’re just saying “lol it’s easy, maybe they should play on vet :^)” I’m not sure what responses you’d expect.
Ok. This doesn’t change anything tho, it will still take super long if you wanna fight skittergate finale with bad weps/careers. This will just delay a dps comp and make the time gap less severe.
This is the fun and difficulty of quick play, i’m not fully against adding a loadout chest in the beginning of the map to change weapons, but careers should stay.
This is why tanky careers do less damage, and squishy ones can do more damage, depending.
This discussion is going the wrong way i feel, you can answer if you like but i won’t keep answering myself, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I think boss events are always going to be impossible to balance for QP as long as the difference in boss DPS between classes is so large. Hopefully the current width of this gap is something we could all agree is a bit much.
I don’t know how you’d fix that exactly, but this is one possibility that comes to my mind:
Firstly buff up specifically the boss damage for a lot of the worst boss DPS options so if you end up in a party filled with such weapons boss fights don’t become a huge drawn out ordeal.
Secondly put a DPS limit across the board on bosses so classes like BH can’t just delete them in 10 seconds. Note that someone like BH would still likely speed things up considerably, but he wouldn’t be able to solo one in the duration of a decanter conc pot anymore, and thus not trivialise these encounters.
I’m sure there are some problems with this suggestion, and apologies for venturing a bit off topic here, but this thread has really highlighted to me how impossible it is currently to effectively balance boss end events for QP.
BH in particular needs his talent fixed. I don’t think it’s intentional that if both bullets hit he regains 80% of his ult, instead of the usual 40%. If he regained 40% of his ult, and NEVER more than 40%, the talent would suddenly be balanced.
And the fix for shade and BH overall, I think, is dialing the duration of potions.
Instead of making all potions have the same duration, I think speed potion should last a bit longer than it currently does, and concentration potion should last a bit less. Strength is fine.
Or, alternatively, change conc potion so instead of speeding up your ult regeneration for a duration, drinking it instantly recharges your ult. Once. Speed and strength can stay as-is. This would make the potion still be useful for boss DPS without turning it into a complete cakewalk, and it makes it more useful for the careers that have really slow ults.
This version would be tough because suddenly concoction becomes unbalanced as hell, though, so that also has to get taken a look at, and decanter stops working with conc potions… Proxy’s still fine though 8)
BH getting such insane cd reduction is definitely the bigger issue as far as boss damage goes, you can get it down to like a 6s cd for a pretty easy to land shot which is super dumb. I really do hope that gets adjusted, and that buckshot is brought up a bit, so there’s more variety in what his ult does.
Your points about pots and BH’s Ult are all good, but even if we removed pots from the equation and assumed the BH was only landing body shots with the Ult, or was landing headshots and only getting 40% reduced cooldown, the difference in boss damage between him with, say, A+F and crossbow, and say, axe + GR RV is probably still too large for balance purposes. Like he’d still be killing a boss multiple times faster, which is pretty nuts disparity IMO.
When you’re just saying “lol it’s easy, maybe they should play on vet :^)” I’m not sure what responses you’d expect.
Interesting, I said that? Oh wait no, I didn’t. You sure like to purposely misinterpret things. If you struggle with a certain difficulty, then the alternative is to play something easier.
When? It’s not as insanely out of line as it was immediately post event changes, but it’s not been anywhere near “nerfed a metric ton” for months now.
You literally say it in this post. Very early after the WoM release. The event spawns like 3 CW’s, in comparison to the like 10+ before, which was still completely doable.
If a single finale is causing more wipes than any other in the game, the issue is the finale, not the difficulty chosen. Maps should be roughly similar in difficulty, which they clearly aren’t at the moment
Where do you get this number? I am willing to bet this isn’t even the case, with the top contenders being Fort or skittergate.
You did, I even quoted it. An event wiping groups more often than any other or just being significantly more difficult is not a situation where the answer to drop back to lower difficulties when people barely struggle elsewhere and do fine for the entire rest of the map.
it was buffed back up after this, hence me saying it’s not been this way for months. I’m pretty sure the ridiculously nerfed version never even left beta branch actually.
Really all it needs these days in my opinion is getting rid of or toning down the flashbang when you leave the circle, adjusting disabler spawns and making enemies move around in a way that’s more predictable, they tend to do some weird stuff and make it painful to kite sometimes. Last two apply to cata as well obviously.
Personal experience, which matches up with the experience of most people I’ve seen discussing the topic. Fort is the same, though skittergate I tend to see more complaints about it just generally being a badly designed fight than the difficulty.
If you have some numbers proving otherwise I’m happy to change my mind, though I guess it could be thrown off by people cheesing it.
Nobody has numbers to prove anything. My personal legend quick plays have all been fine on convocation, if i have bad teams we mostly wipe on the first boss anyway. The flashbang is annoying but thats not what op wants to change here. I’m sure if we compare the spawn code of events that every event is close or has the same amount of spawns, if thats the case, the only difference that could make an event harder is the map or the players.
Fort finale is way too hard for an average party. An experienced crew will breeze through it but an average party will get crushed like a bug. The moment you have to load in the cannon the event turns on a hose of constant infinite spawns. Spawning basic rats in this way would be bad enough because they trickle in from all directions like a never ending ambush. But the game also throws in sv AND monks. If you don’t go and get the cannonball within the first wave of spawns you probably won’t finish the event at all because the next wave of elites will arrive before you kill the current one and that just leads to a downward spiral.
The Convocation event is fine IMO. The only issue I have with it is that the level achievement for staying in the pool is simply impossible on cata. Even if the 4 players can survive inside the pool it’s just a matter of time until a blightstormer spawns and casts a storm from a location the players don’t have line of sight to. It is utterly impossible to defend against that and you fail the event as soon as anyone leaves the pool.
The fort finale used to be really weak, just a trickle of clanrats and slaves. Now (on legend) when you get to the part with the cannonball it spawns an extra wave with 2 SV and 2 monks mixed in, this continues until you fire the cannon or escape out the gate, i’m not sure.
A good party will quickly fend off that first wave and then carry the cannonball over before the next one arrives. But what happened the last couple times is that things keep interrupting us. We go to get the cannonball, one guy goes down and he has the grim. So we go back to save him which takes time, it takes so much time that another wave arrives and then everyone goes down but me. So I have to abandon the cannonball and go pick them up, which triggers more waves and so on.
They need to tone things down so that it doesn’t just dump infinite spawns on you like this. It’s harder than the rest of the level put together and if you drop down to just one active player you may get to the point where enemies are spawning faster than they can kill them.
Isn’t once the cannonball gets fired once, it just spawns another wave if you kill more than a certain amount of enemies, i never had it stack up on me and i have been in situations where we had to fight inside the fort For a while due to twitch boss. The event code which explains how it works doesn’t mention stacking of waves, thats why i ask if the code got changed or only type of enemies, if the timer and triggers are still the same, which from me playing, it is. So how do you get infinite spawns? Thats why i am asking if you have a different event, because i don’t have that, surely you wouldnt say ‘infinite’ if it wasn’t true, so maybe ur game is bugged?
From my experience the only thing that got changed is the composition of the waves.
It’s a bit different after WOM, two trigger conditions for the next wave, either 120 seconds or <10 clanrats and <10 slaverats alive; since 120 seconds is a long time, they are probably killing parts of the wave without dealing with the elites, allowing them to stack up.
“continue_when”,
duration = 120,
condition = function (t)
return count_event_breed(“skaven_slave”) < 10 and count_event_breed(“skaven_clan_rat”) < 10
end
That explains a lot. An experienced party will breeze through the event, but an average party might have trouble dealing with the elites. Especially elites mixed into the regular horde. If they are only treading water and picking off a few slaves here and there rather than clearing out the wave it would explains why more elites pile up over time.
It definitely doesn’t sound like intended behaviour. There shouldn’t be an “exploit” where you can unintentionally farm the event and spawn more elites than there should be.