If you ask me just remove the loot system and make it like L4D where you play just for the game itself.
But
apparently Vermintide is a job for some people. At least if you are reading the forums. If people are not getting rewarded, they don’t see why they should play anyway. A very prominent Shade of this is “Why should I play Cataclysm if the reward is the same as Legend?”. The sad truth is that people expect to be rewarded for their time investment. And it has to be specific rewards. Nobody cares about blue or green weapons although they are a reward. If they lose a round it is the same as not having played at all. People call this “progress” for some reasons.
Which brings us back to the red weapons and/or red dust. In a hypthetical scenario where red weapons wouldnt be a think or exist in heavy overabundance people would no longer consider them a reward for their investment of time. However, they still want some reward. With the weapons out of way, people might say make cosmetics the reward as they do not influence the gameplay. However, there we have to face realitiy that we have nowhere near enough cosmetics to cover rewards for a long time unless you make the acquisition rate so terrible that you will just have shifted the problem and this very same thread will rise again (despite them not influencing the gameplay). The arguments might shift a bit but in the end it will be the same.
If we accept it or not, this is a spiral which will stay and to a certain degree has to say. Because it is a simple calculation. The grind will in average prolong the time people stay with the game. Even if some are turned away by it, in total it will prolong the playtime for most users. Because realistically spoken, the grind is not the breakpoint for players. If they like the gameplay they will tolerate it. If they say they stop playing, even if they specifically say it was because of the grind, the reason lies somewhere else. They just hadn’t fun with the gameplay. This means the grind will not go away. Then while creating these systems you have to make sure that you have different level of grinds which you can target at different stages like:
Entry-Grind - Character Leveling: Easiest to see and most likely the easiest to remove without to much consequences although it is meant to force you through the lower difficulties to learn the game. People having a faster growing rate are casualties.
Mid-Grind - Item Power Level: Terribly annoying but it keeps player going, could be faster. But this will stay as well to control player movement.
Red-Grind: The topic of this thread. The arguments are very clear that it hinders progress and fun. But in reality it is one of the most intense driving factors in the game. Of course you can ask everyone and all say they hate it and it is stupid. But in the end they let themselves being guided by that.
The unachievable-grind: Shillings and Cosmetics. They are there to give you a goal you will never complete so that you can never put that longing checkmark behind the game. They will stay hardcapped. And if you get more ways of Shillings, the prices of cosmetics will just increase.
There are also other forms like achievement grind, etc. All of this topic is just a matter of psychology (although badly explained by me). The main statement is: It will not go away because it is not the breaking point for the game. So no matter how much we complain it will not change.
However, what can be achieved is to get more control over the grind. Meaning we get ways to determine what we get. The prominent example for this is Lohner’s Emporium which is still heavy grind but gives us choice. Another example is the ability to get any red weapon for the cost of 5 red dusts. In that regard FS is ready to give in.
So if you want change, concentrate on suggestions on how to get more control. Example here would be that for playing a certain number/set of Legend+ Weaves would enable you to get a red of your choice. So let’s say you would need to finish 10 different ranked Weaves of said difficulty. You would invest more time (and maybe skill) than just playing adventure mode but you get a certain choice instead of random reds out of the 10 Emperor’s Chest you would get by playing the adventure mode. Again, the grind will not go. Because unmoved by us accepting it or not, it increases the average player retention time.
