Inefficient. Takes too long. Risks the cycle of powercreep’s continuation and further degradation of non-Meta options that go untouched. Unacceptable.
Nerfing Players is the most efficient and logical course. Gets it done and out of the way in a timely manner, while eliminating the risk of leaving non-Meta options behind.
I agree, but like I said they’re already on the course of buffing every class to Ogryn and Arbites standards. I do not think we have much a choice here anymore because this decision was already made, they’re very likely already working on them all as we speak.
So if that’s here to stay, because I do not see them reworking them yet again to make us weaker, then what we need to ask for is more meaningful enemies, and less spam. Unless someone has a better idea, I do not claim to know the best course but I this realistically the player nerf ship has already sailed.
Are you trying to say the NPC companion should be cosmetic only? Like the veteran bots we have right now? The dog would still be stronger due to not wasting medstations alone.
It ideally should be a simultaneous nerf to player power and overhaul of game pacing (Director spawns). It doesn’t need to be a giganerf, incrementally could work. Start with the major outliers like Concussive Talent, cut dog bleed in half to 4 stacks on pounce, Ogryn Batter bleed only on Push Attacks, cap Soulblaze stacks at 16 max, no more VOC gold toughness etc.
Yeah, the cynical part of me says we’re not getting meaningful nerfs and that they might, at most, start raising elite health to insane levels to counteract player power.
Hope not, doesn’t an enemy HP buff have a good chance of negatively affecting weaker weapon breakpoints? Might be a quick fix but not a good fix.
It’s the worst possible way to fix the powercreep
A major reason that people do not engage with your posts positively is because you seem to have a habit of making the most disingenuous reading possible of what someone says and showing very little effort toward understanding the people you’re trying to argue with.
Hey, remember when FatShark got Winds of Magic out for Vermintide 2 and increased the health pool of all enemies ? With also the addition of automatic damage bonuses for staggered enemies etc. to compensate ?
Wasn’t that a good update that got great reception and super good Steam ratings ? /s
Buffing enemy hp in a significant manner doesn’t always work great in tide games. In VT2 fighting the beastmen felt pretty terrible before they were nerfed into normalcy.
sadly the effort does not lie with the one being carried but due to the class´ abilities him being easier to “babysit”
i wager a lot team compositions are not “random” but contain 2 or more buddies.
the weakest link not being as weak immediately increases the chances of (undeserved) success 
had a few good 40s today, all non arbites, each playing really well, some failed.
edit:
here´s one of the failed ones, i had more fun though than with any easy going run
end edit
so far, and from playing arbi in havoc 40 myself, the class alone could have kited 2 bosses far more efficient thus taking pressure of the team, which then ultimately ended both runs.
honestly, i´m more “proud” of good clutched losses than an easy win if they are based on physical skill, reflexes and player abilities rather than numbers behind pixels
the “funny gap” is between auric maelstrom and havoc 35+
the former no one gives a crap about the odd man out, if he stumbles every 5 meters i guess the rest are having a good laugh and move on, nothing of “value” lost.
bad players un-babysitted tend to fail with arbi as well.
less often and less pronounced but the lower bracket still performs horribly.
the difference is no one “needs” him to be alive to make an auric maelstrom come to success.
in havoc though everyone is focused on not losing his ticket and get demoted, so everyone looks out for the others not to f-up and in case one still does, pick him up fast or salvage the situation.
in this “protected scenario” its by far easier to keep a toddler arbi on his feet than any other class due to his toughness regen alone.
all he needs to do is stumbling forward and keep whacking, i wager you´d find that even in the most limited abilities 
while thats not the proclaimed “goal” (and i guess most don´t even have a grasp beyond their “horizon” of “i just wanna play the game”) the twisted idea of every difficulty being by default suited for everyone starting the game, no matter the effort put in, is turning the game for the worse in my opinion.
if you remove certain requirements for a 1st place in any sports so suddenly a couch potato pot belly isnt far off from the mark, the “win” becomes meaningless.
pvp or pve, no matter the game there should be levels of difficulty no casual should ever reach lest it loses meaning to those putting in real effort and striving to better themselves.
i wouldnt want to see myself placing anywhere in the mr. olympia ranks given my physical limits or any sport really thats far out of my league and not in my wildest fever dreams would i have the audacity to demand scaling the requirements down so i wouldn´t feel (rightly so) like a flea on a dragons shoulder.
“a man´s got to know his limitations”
Yes, but I’m cynical enough to think they’ll probably go for it
Yeah me too
^
I’m just quoting for emphasis here, I’m at a loss why people keep repeating that weak argument (barring the sarcastic mention of it here), and that you two even needed to reply to it even with a paragraph just to be on the safe side, or that others need to rebuff it, ever.
I’m still flabbergasted that the leaked DS+PG memo negative review brigade repeated it…though I guess it makes sense in a weird South Park “rabble rabble rabble” kinda way.
Imo for Arbites i think they could remove some of his Toughness Replenishment Ways. Like you are constantly restoring Toughness with him. Use Stamina? Restores Toughness. Near Dog? Restroes Toughness? Kill Elites/Specials - even more additional Regeneration + DMG Resistance etc. while with others you have to actively kill Enemies or dodge Attacks / quell Peril and don’t have all those additional Regen/Resistance on xy Stuff (except Ogryn). For Arbites to be so tanky you should be more required to take the Shield with you.
The Dog shouldn’t have any AoE at all. Imo the targeting of Elites/Specials, kicking off Pox Hounds and knocking back Poxbursters etc. is all fine but the AoE is quite Overkill and where you stack up all the DMG with the Doggo.
Lone Wolf shouldn’t restore Voltaic Shock Mine. Else i wouldn’t nerf it more Voltaic Shock Mine would be still amazing but you wouldn’t be able to use just at any encounter whenever.
Shotgun…it just feels so good blasting away a whole Squad of Enemy Shotgunners with 1-2Hits…but imo the DMG against Flak/Carapace should be reduced, Shotguns ain’t known for their Armour Penetration anyway and for those should force you to make more use of its Special with the Electric Shot Stuff against those Enemies and not just continue blasting.
I can’t speak on Arbites Shock Maul; never played it after mastering it.
Shield and Shock Maul is fine imo.
Shield + Revolver should cost more Stamina or allow Enemies to still hit your Head; else kinda strong to block while also able to shot the powerful Revolver.
‘Buff’ Crusher i.e. give it a second Mark with dedicated Horde Light ATK and Single-Target Heavy; kinda annoying that in both Light/Heavy its the two mixed.
For the Game as a whole to be more challenging i think it can be done relatively simple and that is by changing up what spawns with what. Like if a Horde has guaranteed Bombers/Flamers spawning alongside it while further ahead you got Gunners/Reapers; i think thats the most difficult encounter you can have. For example i had an Havoc 40 which took us 70 Minutes (we lost at the end..xD) and we had to move so carefully from cover to cover because the entire Map was full with Gunners/Reapers and each Horde spawned with Bombers/Flamers/Poxbursters (we later died cuz one was dead and two got thrown out of map by an flamers tank exploding…wasn’t me shooting it..and i wasn’t experienced enough to clutch Solo against the whole Spam and then got sandwiched in corner) but after that had another Havoc 40…did it in like 30-35 Minutes…piece of cake even tho they were more Enemies but it was mainly just Melee Elites, barely any ranged or bombers…those two alone were like worlds apart in difference just alone due to the type of enemies which spawned and in what combination…
and to remove some of the whole perma-stagger / stun everything stuff…maybe chorus can be as it is but it most definitely shouldn’t have the Cooldown Reduction…even w/o it would be powerful but then you’d have to use it more careful at specific encounters and not just 24/7 spam it…don’t have anything against being powerful but being able to spam it whole time kinda busted
smite feels to good for me to call for nerfs for it…but imo could be nerfed so that at least crushers / reapers take longer to get stunned by it
AI in this game needs rewritten. All the hitscan, synchronized shooting and specialist waves feel unfair and uninteresting. Number tweaks on enemy health and damage do nothing to change the difficulty of the game.
You run around taking 0 damage until you instantly die to some wildly unfair trapper net through a staircase or 10 shotgunners who 1 tap you from behind with a synchronized volley (who didn’t exist 3 seconds ago when you turned your back).
I assume the people who say the game difficulty is great play on 30 or less ping and abuse spawner notification mods.
At this point, I can’t really tell where our viewpoint really differs outside of your strong desire to stay civil and respectful.
Everyone, or damn near, are asking for tree reworks as beautiful and fun as Arbites (and Ogryn before it). Seriously, when I can’t decide what to do with a handful of talent points as I round out a build, I wish that was the case for them all.
But we want the numbers on some of these nodes brought in line.
Bully for all of us if FS figured out (or hired someone who knows) how to design a great tree.
The pressure doesn’t need to be on them to "put a bigger effort on meaningful difficulty"but to dial back the power these fantastic new trees allow.
Something never-nerfs seems to overlook or intentionally ignore is the engine limitations. We are pretty much at it. They can’t add much more density. And the difficulties already were meaningful before space cops dropped.
So, the idea to buff us then buff enemies - can you explain to me how that’s different than nerfing us? Last couple times I’ve asked, that is conveniently ignored.
As opposed to pro-nerfs bringing up break points and TTKs and other things that would suffer. You know, tangible, experience based proof rather than fee fees.
I swore a long time ago that I would never do math to play my video games. But some people do. And they support nerfs.
how is you not checking your ISP quality BEFORE you move in anyone elses problem?
thats literally the first thing i checked picking my place of residence 
I think they did a great Job with the Arbites Tree but it just has some busted Stuff. But excluding that i think the Tree is great because you can actually pick any Combination of Blitz, Ability and Keystone you want and its viable; same with Ogryn now.
Meanwhile with Vet/Zel/Psyker you basically only got like 1-2 Builds and if you want to go anything else (like Psyker Assail you miss out on CDR Node; Souldrinker and you going to miss multiple Points for other stuff; zealot loner just tax nodes above it and loner sucks anyway, chorus with crit/cdr to busted, 99% of all builds having blades, go for immo/ss grenades alrdy ~2 points spend on tax nodes etc)
Litrally my point Dadadudude
Yeah this one of the most obvious things that needs to be nerfed, arbi is just swimming in toughness.