But i do have to say if they actually do nerf Stuff and make the Game more challenging with less OP Abilities/Weapons and make the Enemies individually more challenging and with that less Enemies as a whole just being spammed as a way of difficulty i think they do need to add an type of difficulty where you have the current Spam/Density of like higher Havocs but enemies with less HP/DMG Output as that would be a great Spot for No-Nerf; just play for Fun to feel Powerful and for fun. Kinda like if you go in Auric MTT Ogryn Twink-linked Stubber+PBB/LuckyBullet+Death Dealer Indulgence…its no challenge at all but damn its fun when you can just blast 24/7 into everything not having to worry about Ammo and shred everything.
Maybe they should be a Thread made adding all the intakes here together with Polls to vote on
I am based in England, and play with people like @Reginald who is US based. So I get 140ms, special waves are based.
Wouldn’t those people be more inclined to say the Game is to easy?
At this point all these conversation mostly serve to entertain ourselves and as some Festivus-style airing of grievances, not sure specific polls are all that useful other than to us.
FS is aware of what’s needed and what’s not, maybe there’s room for feedback as to severity or urgency, and that’s what these discussions may provide, but at the end of the day it comes down to a willingness to commit and that involves resources, and those free resources may be thin at the moment if we read the tea leave correctly.
As theorized by many, it seems like many if not most of said resources are working on the next *Tide UE project or something, and that’s why we’re a bit starved for content and timely changes, as well as things being fat-finger broken and taking ages to fix.
There’s certainly still room for improvement in the “work smarter not harder” dept. and that’s where I think think our grumbling may help, this topic of balance being an important one and my little pet peeve regarding player agency, opening all maps to all mutators and letting players pick them.
Maybe there’s a sliver of hope that the FOMO shop infused some cash for additional resources that can relive some of the pressure, and or some reviews of the last year’s foibles can help avoid them in the future etc.
Fingers crossed, a more meaningful balanced and challenging end-game (this topic) is high on the list for many of us.
About the nerfing us point, I do agree it’s the better solution that having to redo the whole game, but it’s simply not the way things are going it seems. The big numbers just have a bigger impact to someone opening a tree for the first time and skimming over it. They just look better.
My idea to buff enemies wouldn’t be to just pump up their HP or outright make them immune to certain tools we have only, but to add more mechanical complexity where possible.
For example take a Crusher, most experienced players know its moveset, they know that overhead is a potential down, they know now how to dodge around them and what animation means what. Add new elites with new animations and different weakpoints. Less but tougher.
Turn regular enemies into bigger individual threats like I said a while go, give us some more elite troopers to fight us, give them a squad leader that buffs them, make those squad leaders acts like slightly tougher elites players have to be mindful of. Give the enemies new weapons, let them inflict bleed on us maybe, give them a sword and gun archetype that’s not a pushover etc. These new enemy types can be restricted to higher difficulties only.
I just think that’s the direction the game is going in and I believe we will have better results if we ask Fatshark for a more meaningful changes going forward. They might not listen and mess it up, or they might listen, and we might get what we all want, as much as possible.
So I am saying maybe it would be productive if we try to shift the discussion towards accepting this change, letting the power come to the player, let those who want the power fantasy to have it and find a way to give those who want a challenge something meaningful despite the power levels.
I don’t think FS is lacking ressources. They got more employees than some AAA-Studious (Wukong was made by not even half the Employees for most of its development and even at end has less than FS) and they got Tencent as the parent-company (…or maybe thats the problem…).
Seems more like an issue of willingness and i guess as you said working on new Title. But i don’t get that choice at all. Even with just but a handful more Devs actively working on DT it could be so much more. Like DT stills holds itself up good compared to new Games, the Gameplay is great, the Setting is great and people want to play it. But it just lacks content/variety and challenge for dedicated players, the slow drip-fed updates once in a blue moon are also a major turn off and the lack of nice cosmetics too. all just recolours/reskins and FOMO Shop is just bruh especially the weapon skins…man do i want to get me some nice weapon skins but its just 1-2 available each rotation and most look like ass and not rly worth like a thousand aquillas…
Like just speaking from a sheer business i.e. greedisgood perspective…DT could make them a TON more money if they’d only attribute a handful more Devs working on it…this Game would be sitting at an average of 50k players instead of 10k and just spiking with update then going back to pre-update numbers a week later if it had more content by now…mortis trials with more than just one map and more indulgences…iconic weapons / weapons as a whole added more frequently like hellgun/heavy stubber for veteran that alone would make me play veteran for a hundred hours…just those two weapons…new enemies and new enemy faction like genestealer…i’d even pay for genestealer DLC and imagine if we had genestealers by now…i guarantee with that alone game would have double to triple the players by now…but instead prolly going to take another 3 years for them to be added and at that point…game as a whole maybe not that interesting anymore for many
And whats the new Title going to look like…is it going to be like VT / DT? And then take like 3 years to be like in a state where one could say it should have been at launch? Tbh even if its something amazing im never going to buy another Game from FS at launch and probably not for the first 1-2 years after that knowing how they made/treat VT/DT
Yeah balance issues aside, I think Arbites is so loved because it’s something genuinely new, new class new weapons, dog, all that. We haven’t got much lately, some rare missions now and then and Mortis Trials while it’s nice, it’s just not so fun as Chaos Wastes.
Imo Mortis Trials would be still great if at least it had more than just…two Maps…and some more Indulgences..
They could still have made it so it is in Sefonis Mind and a training ground for you to become an Mortis Operative but also be like Chaos Wastes in VT but you just go through different instances/path of Sefonis Mind and whatever path you choose different modifiers on that match etc. (well just like chaos wastes…but in sefonis mind..) but if they keep it as is now…just add some more maps…some more indulgences…and it be great and fun too…
Not to discount your complaint my friend but you do not want asynchronus shooting in volleys. Synchronus shooting means you do 1 dodge slide and can dodge all the shots.
Asynchronus shooting means all 20 guys shoot slightly offset and you die the second your slide is over.
it would also be a mess of desync
why do pro power creep people like you constantly and deliberately miss the point? “dog only” should not be a playstyle capable of duoing missions. if you can carry missions with weaker weapons like the shredder autopistol, that’s purely down to skill. but there’s almost no skill involved with doing a dog only run (no offense to harridas).
at the moment, “dog only” can serve as a complete replacement for your melee and ranged weapon, which is the entire problem. it does too much by itself, which is why dog only is even possible
Remove any AoE from Doggo. Problem solved.
Nerf Chorus. At least remove its CDR. Can be powerful imo but shouldn’t have Cooldown Reduction.
That’s also how you get a crusher overhead that lasts longer than your dodge window when 6-8 crushers stack on top of one another.
They’ve already clearly stated that the DS and Plasma will be nerfed, so buffing everything else up to the level of Arbites or Ogryn is completely backwards.
If they try to balance things after buffing everything, there are only two ways to go: either make enemies stronger (by increasing HP or stagger resistance), or spawn even more enemies. Considering how the previously introduced “Elite Resistance” was quickly scrapped due to negative feedback, it’s hard to imagine they’ll go with stronger HP or resistance, though knowing Fatshark, there’s always the risk they’ll repeat the same mistake.
As I’ve said before, if they go with the “more enemies” route, that would likely push things past performance limits. On top of that, flooding the game with enemies will just make certain weapons, like TH and Chain weapons, even more useless than they already are.
When discussing balance, the most important factor is how deeply someone understands the game. I know this sounds harsh, but the opinions of the average Reddit user are completely worthless when it comes to actual game balance.
As you said, what we can do is keep pushing back against this “buff everything” approach and make it clear to Fatshark that it’s the wrong direction. If they only listen to casual players, sure, it might bring short-term profits, but in the long run, the game will die off even faster.
another example of the left tree without some of its functions…
i wonder what it´ll look like when they “fix” it 
I think realistically pushing back against the reworks to the class trees will only lead to wasted time and frustration because as far as I can see these changes are already in the pipeline and coming anyway.
Adjusting weapons should happen yes and it’s also easier to do, compared to a big talent tree you pick 30 options from though. Different kind of effort and easier for them to tune this.
I do not want cheap difficulty so that’s why I think we should ask for better not more enemies, but also be realistic about the direction the game is currently going in. Most of these average Reddit players with “worthless” opinion want the game to feel fun, so when a weapon feels fun they stick to it. Truth it Fatshark has failed in making some weapons fun and has overstepped with nerfs before. That’s at the core of their pushback to nerfs. Not saying it’s justified to not nerf, just clarifying their perspective.
Some really good veteran player WILL make the classes go above and beyond, but this simply isn’t true for for the majority of the playerbase, it’s just not reality, you won’t see it happen. Maybe Arbites will push the player past a hurdle they could not overcome before, but it won’t get them to the top alone. So balancing things strictly from the experiences of a few players is also wrong.
Despite what some claim, both sides of this discussion resort to hyperbole, you can see some claims in other discussions Arbites will just carry you to victory blindfolded. This doesn’t happen and it doesn’t help the discussion, it cheapens it. We should be realistic about what’s going to happen and what we can all do and ask for to make it better in the future.
Like I said before, you are better at this game than many others, what you can do in some cases is currently way out of the reach of many players and will likely continue to be. Not saying this to discredit your experience, I am just asking more people here to try to consider things from the opposite perspective too and forego pointless off-topic mud slinging (not saying this about you specifically).
This info was grossly misinterpreted because:
- The amount of matches with Ogryns was severely less than with other classes
- Out of these matches, most of the Ogryn matches were pre-mades.
It is statistically inaccurate to claim that “Ogryn had the highest winrates” when the sample sizes vary that much.
My point being that Oldgryns were actually playing Havoc 40 how it was meant to be played.