This whole thread is funny as OP tops scoreboard with ds4+plasma dealing almost equal ranged/melee damage but the plasma gun is still bad for some reason.
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me when I donât know how to use the double-barrel and can only hold m1 with recon las
Nice assumption there buddy.
I mean, good gameplay and mechanical skill (aside from using the cringe cheat mod) on the vid, but if you play like that with DB you can perform even better with every other weapon that doesnât restrict you to close quarters combat.
These weapons are less fun to use, simple as.
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the guy in the vid is clearly a zealot main, breaks every rule dont need any of the vet crutches to pull trough
a true vet main is like the other one getting downed by being in autopilot and fail to adapt to new situations, like a second vet with shout but no gold toughness, even if he noticed his autopilot still thinks that he can rely on that
its the same with me when i play zealot, i go flame grenades because i hate throwing knives, and then i bring bolter to compensate the lack of throwing knives, and sacrifice a cuple of zealotâs cores, because i never relied on them in the first place, and still do great, iâm more confident on my zealot than my vet for havoc
You just take chorus and spam F to be useful on Zealot
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So you have more than enough time to understand how good of a gun youâre using. Just maybe not how âbadâ it used to be and how insane it is now. (my hot take is that itâs never been bad)
There are multiple problems with this.
You cannot account for playstile and have that bleed over in your assessment of a weapons viablility. A weapon can be good but utilised poorly, giving you the wrong impression.
How does doing 60% of your damage with a good melee weapon and vets strongest damage tool (yes thatâs the bleed nades) make the plasma gun bad?
It can one-shot every single enemy in the game except bosses, consistanly. If someone actively tries to get more damage out of the ranged weapon to make it look better, that vet is playing worse. Getting more damage with a ranged weapon does not mean itâs better than another one.
And lastly, the âI have not seen it(yet)â argument is just a different wording for confirmation bias.
There is plenty of DT footage proving how good the plasma gun is.
The plasma gun is my 2nd most used ranged weapon in 1600+ hours across all patches. I am consistanly either the best or 2nd best player in my squads. That also mean that Iâm painfully aware of the average quality of your random teammates. Most of them I question how they donât drown in their bowl of cereal every moring.
My point is; apparently, I have way more experience than you and I can personally attest; the plasma gun is fantastic.
To put this short; youâre saying that the plasma gun is making you play in a sloppy fashion.
Thatâs not whatâs happening to me when I play but that previous sentance is not a sign of a bad gun. Itâs a sign of a really good, maybe even too good, gun.
Think about it. If your kit was bad, you would have to play better to win. If your weapons are so good that you can get away with playing poorly, it has to be good then, right?
I donât know why you made this post about the plasma when itâs really more a rant about bad teammates in disguise.
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Ok.
Plasma isnât the best pick for special sniping. Itâs great at other things, and outside Havoc totally broken (in the OP way) with its cleave values.
In general I think you miss the point of player roles. There is no build which can do it all. Especially in Havoc. Whatever your are a horde clearer, CC king, support, special hunter, boss killer etc etc. If someone else brings a set up which fulfils the same role as yours, you are likely to feel more useful by filling another gap 
In my experience, I havenât found the PG to be particularly overpowered, particularly at ânormalâ difficulty levels (not Havoc or Auric/Maelstrom). At these levels, the opportunity to Cleave through 12 Elites that all spawn on the same spot doesnât exist, and ammo isnât so rare that the PGâs Cleave becomes clutch for clearing groups of enemies at range.
With the way the Sweatmodes are built, largely simply increasing enemy volume and increasing durability while reducing resources, between CDR and Cleave, it makes VoC and Plasma builds feel dramatically more capable than they do at the ânormalâ modes.
For people really good at the game, they can exploit the PG at higher difficulties to do much better than a similar build would have done at a lower difficulty level. That said, with the PGâs firing & projectile delay, requirement for headshots on many enemies to one-shot kill, mediocre sights, and long reload animations, Iâm certainly not able to pull off things others are able to, I donât typically see most PG users dominate scoreboards, and I find running Autoguns and Recon Lasguns to generally be more functional in my hands, though Iâm also not running high level Havoc games.
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yes, unless you have to carry
no its my take aswell, i used it pre cleave buff, i probably liked it even more, but the density of enemies was different back then
well no, due to the large projectile hit box iâm landing tons of limb hits, probably because havoc buffs messes its breaking points, but i really mean it when i often wish i had a bolter, and its never the case the other way around
plasma gun is bad, because its situational, and those situations where its good its redundant with the job of all the other big players
the problem i have with it is that i canât find a role for it other than just a sorta flamer for vet, but its redundant with its own kit, frag grenades and such
i saw some of those and i wasnât convinced, not impressed, maybe i need to look harder
this argument is fair, but misses my point
absolutely not, i like trowing jabs to zealots and such, but i truely believe plasma gun is more an hindurance as a tool for the veteran class, maybe not a player trap, but bolter is better
I currently use bolt pistol out of pure enjoyment but my time with Plasma gun is next to carry levels.
Heres a tip, hit them in the face!
Thats a great ice breaker, how do we learn to communicate when the door is already closed?
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thing is iâve been spoiled by 2000 hours of bolter and when iâve decided to commit to the plasma a bit i found that underwhelming in relation to the forum talk
if the plasma gun is overpowered because of its cleave then its the same with zealot flamer, but nobody wants to see a second patch #7 for him
(iâm not mentioning purgatus because that should be out of question)
and donât kid yourself, i donât like cleave on pg aswell, i was fond of the old 4.5 cleave mass it had before, the thing was usable
i had similar feelings with bolter aswell, they just took different paths to overpowerness, PG literally went from 4.5 to 100 in a single patch
bolter had 3 buffs on its belt before reaching it (patch 14 damage buffs, along many other weapons including PG, the ammo reserve increase and lastly, the bolt rounds overhaul that came with the crafting update; that also included more damage buffs; namely +10% more penetration and the damage to infested buff)
i dropped the rending blessing from my bolter for puncture and i can still plough trough crushers with the worst modifiers in a pinch
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I prefer the bolter too, the delay on the pg light shots messes with my aim (yes that is a skill issue on my part I am well aware).
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LMAO
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"They must nerf everything i want cuz i cant get more kills and scores than another player on the scoreboard modâ
âcuz i cant be the top guy in the team, every vet must use las pistol instead of plasma gun so that i can get more kills and scores than another player on the scoreboard modâ
"If you disagree my point of viewďźthat just prove i am the right one and you are wrongâ
what a nerdďźlmao 
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You main plasma, very obvious.
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Yes Zealot flamer needs to be nerfed again what are you saying? Same with Rumbler. Stuff that ignores hitmass or has infinite cleave is stupid and should be nerfed or changed.
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Flamer, trauma, plasma, purg, rumbler
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I can agree with the vib but ânot the executionâ, though reading through the entirety of the thread (because sometimes my fixations just do that idk why) I get the feeling the main âissueâ comes down to how YOU play veteran, on top of what YOU view as your role and how best you can accomplish it.
Youâre the vet with the ranged weapon glued to your hands, you want that thing cleaning shop, you want it all to yourself, and you donât want to ever have to take a break from it unless youâre tossing a grenade. This, to make clear, is totally fine, as you obviously make it work and you deal with what you need to. But not every vet is the same, they are quite good at being multifaceted, and many (me) actually like using their melee weapon to great effect while bleed exploding the horde and helping with the heavily armored targets that get too close before then transitioning back to pot shoting the shooters.
I know for me, I rarely find issue killing far off targets with the Plasma Gun, I at most might need to take a shot or two to kill a sniper thatâs super far away, but I chock it up to my old Halo 3 days and running around trying desperately to get the Spartan Laser achievement (never had a perfect multiplayer moment for that oneâŚit still haunts me to this day). Far off hip fire shots are of no issue to me, and to that end the Plasma gun functions like a meaty Revolver in my eyes. It lets me ignore bulwark shields, do pretty good damage to everything, and also have a âpanic buttonâ that can be shot through the wave and melt most of it if others fail to do their job.
And I feel thatâs another thing to bring up, Plasma works great in a rando team, because you canât depend on your allies to function unfortunately. Sometimes things will get through because you arenât communicating/they are just bad/etc etc, and the Vet will then have to make up the difference or fall over. Plasma builds allow you to do that by focusing more on dancing around with your long stick (DS) and getting up Shredder grenades to clear the horde, keeping it off you and your team so you can then pot shot the targets you need to at any opportunity thatâs afforded to you. Thereâs a reason I tend to use Blaze Away + Shattering Impact on my Plas, because more often than not youâre sinking shots into the oncoming armored hordes to weaken them for your team to then quickly deal with, before pot shoting the final shots into the far off gunners and reapers with stacked Blaze Away to melt them crispy. You then vent a tick or two before helping with the melee hordes/throwing nades, and then swap back to it when gunners and other specials reveal themselves and you need them gone NOW.
Itâs very good at âcontext switchingâ, while encouraging the vet to use their entire kit, which is fun AND forgiving for most vets, so they enjoy the playstyle, on top of getting better survivalist procs (to a degree) thanks to the 145 ammo pool.
But, even with me saying all that, I will also say a Puncture Boltgun can be used to equally as good if not better effect, my fav one I like using basically fills the same role of Puncture + Shattering Impact. The only main difference falls down to being less efficient against Bulwarks and not being AS fast acting as a good âquick drawâ plasma gun hipfire as you gotta ADS if you donât want to waste a bunch of shots. But it can be used to an even grander effect (especially in a coordinated team) as youâre spreading bleed around on top of still having most all the benefits of a Plasma gun, so you will naturally get kills in roughly the same level of shots thanks to the bleed cleaning up the rest, while also being able to dump shots into the wave and âtargets that get throughâ in a panicked pinch when needed.
I think at the end of the day Plasma gun âforces restraintâ, basically think of the hip fire of a Plasma gun as the ADS mode of the Boltgun but enforced all the time. You CANâT overspend with the Plasma gun, where as the Boltgun BEGS you to overspend with itâs satisfying mag dumping hip fire that just cleans things out so good. So as most have said in here as well, Plas functions as exceptional âtraining wheelsâ that also lets you F up while still performing, while the Boltgun requires your 2k hours within itâs sweet embrace to know proper âtrigger disciplineâ along with when and when not to âlet it looseâ, so it isnât as often talked about even though itâs just as good if not better depending on how itâs built. I know I have both builds, a Boltgun and a Plas build, as I enjoy both and swap freely between depending on my mood.
But you prefer the Boltgun, and thatâs great. TBH I honestly feel the cries for Plas to be nerfed to be overblown, the gunâs largely just good at enforcing itâs niche and thatâs about it, maybe drop itâs cleave back down so people have to aim with it again (like said aforementioned Spartan Laser) and it honestly becomes totally fine in my eyes. But, itâs âeasyâ, so itâs temporary ubiquity causes continual outcry, even if itâs honestly âabout as good as any of the other heavy hittersâ. Thereâs a reason you hear coordinated teams also pulling out the Helbore lasgun of all things, Infernus + infinite ammo is honestly all you need, Plas just does all the work for you while giving you ârando f upâ forgiveness, so people tend to clutch onto it like itâs their specials pearls, and then shoot to often at the targets they probably shouldnât leading to others complaining about it, cause itâs hard to miss the massive F you laser puncturing the crusher right in front of you youâve been poking and watching it drop dead.
(also to a random comment point about Psyker bubble, itâs used heavily as a crutch more often than not for sure, but a good Psyker uses it as âcover extensionâ because 10% toughness regen per second is a hell of a drug, and the mark of a good verses bad bubble Psyker is there ability to place it in a way that still protects against shots but also has the bubble last the full 25 seconds, allowing your melee fighters to basically do their job for free because âyou canât take chip damage if youâre toughness is always at 100%, especially with constant golden toughness on top of thatâ. Itâs an insanely useful support tool, again mainly useful in rando teams where âevery mistake blocker countsâ, but often youâll see Psykers just drop the things in the middle of the open battle field and then it dies in 2 seconds and youâre like 'thanks Iâm happy the rally point you chose was OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD!)
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You know what, that oneâs on me.
Yeah it doesnât 1-shot enemies on havoc. Itâs still meta regardless because of itâs cleave allowing for way higher damage and ammo efficiency than any other ranged weapon.
So⌠thatâs been changed on the plasma a long time ago. If you hit both a limb and head, the headshots get priority.
Then Iâm afraid I donât understand what your point is. ^^
Fair enough. I donât see many facts to support that opinion but itâs an opinion.
Boltgun certainly feels better. For me boltgun and plasma are the top 2 vet ranged weapons. Iâm not going to disagree too heavily whichever is put ahead of the other.
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Same. Its my default pick on zealot. Extra mobility, Run & Gun, bleed. Whatâs not to like? Sadly the DR mob modifier in Havoc broke many of the old breakpoints, even on specials, but I can live with that, for now.