People kicking because of low hero levels

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
61

Personally i got the impression OP was talking about Veteran Difficulty. I answered in that context. Veteran is not a lot harder than Recruit and it’s totally possible to play it with a lvl 1 twink Character without having any problems.

I would just not recomment joining champion games and above with low levels, because the lack in talents becomes a noticable handicap for the whole team there.

So, yeah i get where you are coming from Naskoni. But OP was talking about Veteran or lower mainly i think, and to me that’s still easy mode. No problem or reason to kick low lvl ppl there. At least for me there is none.

62

Everything above Recruit on a lv1 career is already too high of a difficulty. If you are so good go solo champ with bots a couple of rounds and come back to me for all I care… you don’t need others to carry you, do you?

63

If you are even relatively proficient at playing legend, recruit and even veteran will probably bore you out of your mind if you hero power is sufficiently high even on a level 1 character (which it likely is if you are playing legend).

64

Don’t forget there is something like hero power lvl. That alone changes difficulties over time and allow high tier heroes to get back into lower difficulties to carry a lot easier. I sometimes farm lower difficulties for crafting ressources and to help newer players. It’s my kind of fun from time to time…

The solidarity you can ignite by being a good teacher is awesome.

Edit: Naskoni. If you still have a lower power level and struggle to keep your head above water i totally get your opinion btw. It is totally understanable.

65

I’ve wasted quite a few hours of my life trying to carry people on Nightmare on the Horn of Magnus with full books. After having many such people fail, miserably, on the tower defense I stopped doing that. Me and the people I played with started kicking lower levels before they could even join - our experience improved tremendously. Just because you could, by chance, get a non-moron lv10 join in does not mean I should waste my time in 90%+ of the cases by getting what you usually get - a clueless noob. By pure empirical experimentation we determined what levels even stand a chance to maybe be proficient enough as not to be auto-kicked by default. It worked much better.

When I, myself, play on Recruit to level up a new career I don’t mind playing with completely clueless people - that’s what Recruit is for. I do not however tolerate such even on Veteran. If I play on any higher difficulty I expect people to know what they’re doing - I’m not a coach or a trainer. And I’m not going to waste my time finding out whether they need training either.

66

I really despise seeing a level 1 on Veteran. That means you’ve played 1 or fewer games on that character. You’re not going to know how to play them; exception being those who played beta but given the size of the current player base we can assume that’s unlikely now. Sorry I’m not going to risk you (not you but you understand right) being that one special snow flake that can actually play. The director in this game can turn on a dime and ramp up the difficulty, I don’t need a level 1 who doesn’t understand their hero adding to that.

Now that being said on Vet I wont kick level 5’s or higher. That seems to be about the point where you’ve either learned your class and understand how to play them or you’re likely never going to.

I was leveling Kerillian yesterday, she was 12 at the time, and we were running Vet. The group decided to try Champ. We did fine. This was a pub group that decided to take a level 12 with them to Champ though, I didn’t Quickplay into it looking for a carry.

I’d be fine with seeing a level lock on the difficulties in addition to the power level, somewhere close to the point you unlock each class for a hero.

67

“Everything above Recruit on a lv1 career is already too high of a difficulty.” is absolutely wrong. My friend and I switched from our lvl 30’s to level alts in veteran at lvl 1 and we did great. With lvl 300 items you have more than enough hero power to destroy veteran.

68

Right, I’m not arguing that you don’t have enough power. I’m also not arguing that you don’t have enough talents, since most are lack luster. What I’m saying is that the majority of players don’t know how to play the game at level 1 and don’t understand that hero. This problem will only get worse over time. From what I’ve seen most people that played V1 and Beta are leveling a few characters. That means the chance of finding a level 1 that is good at the game a month or two from now will drop.

Again. I feel there should be a character level requirement for joining a Quick Play game. I couldn’t care less what difficulty you choose to play on with your friends.

69

I think it is fine that you feel that level restriction would make it “better”. It could even and I don’t find it that unlikely (on average that is). If Fatshark want to implement it, then so be it. What I don’t like is players in the quick queue making up their own restrictions and imposing them: I should be able to tell if I will get into a game when I join the queue without being abused by other players for being “too low level” or “playing the wrong class” or “picking the wrong talents” or “having the wrong trait on necklace”, which are their own arbitrary restrictions. If you want to pick who you want to play with make your own non-quick-queue lobby.

70

Not playing the meta class or not having the proper item isn’t the same as kicking someone over their level. At Legendary sure, meta the f out of it.

The majority of level 1 players in a Vet or Champ game are not very good at their character. Congratulations, you’re the exception.

Here’s the difference though. I can actually do that. A typical level 1 can not. They can’t carry the bots on a Vet or Champ at level 1. It only takes a couple games to get up a few levels. Everyone seems to be coming up with different reasons as to why they shouldn’t have to play 3-4 Recruit matches. I’m playing the intended difficulty for my level. A level 1 in Vet/Champ are not.

I will continue to kick people until a fix is implemented where I no longer feel the need to kick people.

71

I am not going to play recruit ever again and forcing people with 310 power to play recruit from lvl 1 to whatever you think is the required level is simply stupid. Someone who has played the game to higher levels on one character can translate that skill well to another character, hell they may have even played the character in V1 as well.
You are complaining about everyone’s excuses for not having to play on recruit but I don’t see you giving a single good reason why we should be FORCED to.

72

Playing 3-4 recruit matches is your standard. When do I know I have met everyone’s standard and I am not a “selfish *hole” for using the quick queue with a “suboptimal character” (by their standards)?

I’m playing the intended difficulty for my level.

If there was “intent” it has to be from Fatshark. Fatshark have not level restricted difficulties. It is very hard to argue it is not intended to play level 1 in vet or champ due to this. This is your personal restriction you are imposing on other players in quick play mode. I am arguing you should not be able to do this. Lobby for more restrictions from Fatshark, that’s fine. But the restrictions that are used to should be official, so people know the standard they need to meet and the standard is not defined arbitrarily any given time.

edit: I just realized you did lobby for level restrictions (which is how you should approach this IMO). But you also mentioned you kick people below level 5 in vet, so my post is still kind of on point on that regard.

73

When they stop kicking you out. We can safely assume that higher the level, lesser the chance of being kicked due to the level. :grinning:

Fatshark isn’t forcing others to play with you either tho. There isn’t even penalty for leaving. Neither is there penalty for being kicked.

You are arguing that once you pass the requirements you are entitled to play with the people in the lobby and you want FS to enforce that… well the other players aren’t paid to do it - tho you could try that! Offer them some sort of payment and I am sure they would gladly carry you - or kick you anyway, because some people don’t care about money. :sweat_smile:

The most reasonable solution to avoid the low level kicking is to give players option to lock the lobby for certain level range - and to allow players to search for certain types of lobbies. It may increase the search time, but that way you wouldn’t end up somewhere you aren’t welcomed - or at least not because of the level.

74

Not forcing. They do hide information that people could use to (unjustly) discriminate against me. They have done that to hero power, talents and equipment choices. They could do that the character level. If they remove kick option you are still not forced to play: You can not play if you do not want to be “forced” or you can make a private game and play with bots.

There isn’t even penalty for leaving. Neither is there penalty for being kicked.

The penalty for getting kicked is wasting your time and possibly not getting loot/exp for your effort. Would you be fine with me deciding to not play with you and kicking you off at the end of the match? I should not be forced to play with you naturally, it being the end of the match does not change that, right?

You know there are no penalties for intentionally tossing a grimoire and then quitting either. Or for intentionally downing your team mates with friendly fire. I could go on. There currently not being a penalty is absolutely not an argument for something being OK, UX-wise.

well the other players aren’t paid to do it - tho you could try that!

Plenty (most multiplayer) of games “force” (do not let you select) the players that you play with on you. This is often done in a separate queue. League of Legends, Call of Duty, etc. all have queues where you don’t get to pick your team; it is given to you. For example in League most queues are like that and you get a penalty for leaving. And you don’t get paid to play League either.

Likewise in Vermintide, I think in quick queue you should just suck it up and adapt. If you want to be picky make your own non-quick-queue game.

The most reasonable solution to avoid the low level kicking is to give players option to lock the lobby for certain level range - and to allow players to search for certain types of lobbies. It may increase the search time, but that way you wouldn’t end up somewhere you aren’t welcomed - or at least not because of the level.

This is something that could be implemented for non-quick-queue matches, if at all. Quick queue is meant to be quick; You shouldn’t have to tick boxes and check requirements.

75

Kicking someone at the start of the match and at the end is entirely different matter - vote kicked players should get loot if the run is successful imo.

You want FS to allow low level players to exploit high level players without it being hinted before the match start - which is btw. similar to throwing away the grim, beucase you lose XP per hour that way and you get less loot per hour.

That’s not cool in my book even if other games support that. Why should the others do the work for you? Do something that is fun for you but isn’t fun for them? That doesn’t seem right.

In cooperative game all the members of the party should know what they are signing for. In this case they know you are lower level than they want, so they kick you. The issue isn’t that they know you are low level, the issue is that you ended up in their lobby when they don’t want you to be there.

Quick que is what it is. It should help players to find groups quickly - groups that share similar goals. I would even say that there should be grim and no grim check box to improve it.

If you want to play with level 1 character legend then you should have the option to be matched with players who don’t mind doing that, but you shouldn’t force others to do it when they don’t want to waste their time.

76

No. I want that if I join the quick queue everyone participating knows that they are being randomly assigned players. Those players can be bad or good players. Those players may have high or low power. What is known however is what they do have: minimal requirements. I do not want that players in QUICK QUEUE get to start to decide what their standard is. If they do not agree to that they can use the lobby browser. In short I don’t want people wasting my time by kicking me when I meet the requirements to play, but they still think they know better.

In cooperative game all the members of the party should know what they are signing for. In this case they know you are lower level than they want, so they kick you. The issue isn’t that they know you are low level, the issue is that you ended up in their lobby when they don’t want you to be there.

That’s on them, not me. I am perfectly OK playing with nearly all players in the queue (verbally hateful *hats and trolls aside). I accept the fact that sometimes I have to carry, because that is the nature of the quick queue. If at some point I don’t want to accept that I would make my own (perhaps private) game lobby.

If you want to play with level 1 character legend then you should have the option to be matched with players who don’t mind doing that

Sure, in a perfect world everyone would get to decide with whom they interact. I don’t agree that the players in the quick queue should be able to make that decision once a person has joined, because they agreed to the rules (ie. minimum hero power) when they pressed the play button. Kicking people based on your personal preference is, in such a queue, IMO very close to trolling, but that can be debated of course.

Kicking someone at the start of the match and at the end is entirely different matter

Kinda. The difference is that people want loot. But you’re still forcing people to play with other people. It’s not their (kicker’s) fault Fatshark doesn’t give players kicked at the end of the match any compensation. If they think they have a better chance at the finale, then by your logic, isn’t it their right to decide that they don’t want to play with a “suboptimal” player?

If I want to just play and the automatic queue throws me into a game and I get kicked because some arbitrary requirement that wasn’t known before joining the game, my time was wasted. If this happens multiple times I can spend a lot of my (at least to me) valuable time trying to play the game whilst adhering to the rules set by the devs (have more than requisite HP). This is very bad UX and I don’t know how anyone can disagree.

I can see how someone could see multiple queues as the answer and maybe they are the answer. But according to whose arbitrary preferences do we gate those queues? If I want an “no elf” queue can I have one? If I want a “no swedish players” queue can I have one? Etc.

77

This entire discussion reeks of entitlement and I don’t use that word lightly, don’t really know about anyone else, but I at least have courtesy of getting in a few levels on a new characters before bumping up the difficulty.

Not to mention that it’s a safe bet most of us don’t want to risk and carry dead weight or take a chance at it at all, even if veteran is easy once you figured out he basics.

There also should be hard level restrictions for Champion at 20 and Legend at 30 if you’re not a full party but but using matchmaking.

78

And then you realize that the people whining, and then some, here how they don’t get carried by others from lv1 onwards, could have spent this time to play on Recruit instead, level up, and not have the problem anymore… But I guess whining endlessly is way more attractive to them…

And I absolutely support the idea for hero-level requirement as a prerequisite for higher difficulties.

79

If you were to not used boosted gear from another character due to the loot level being account wide could you play that difficulty? No? Cool you’re not at the intended level for that difficulty.

I do the exact same. It’s a coop game, not a pvp game. I do my team the courtesy of waiting until I’m a decent level before moving on regardless of my power level.

80

The problem is you think that hero level for players on veteran, champ, and legend are going to make such a huge difference. I’ve got news for you, my fully geared bots are more useful on veteran than 70% of the low skill players we queue in with even when they are level 20+. Also, the people here that are “whining endlessly” are clearly those of you who want to add level restrictions to difficulties. I’m only here because I don’t want your whining and trash idea’s to be implemented in this game.