Consider Removing Kick

Honestly the amount of elitism generated by only displaying character-specific level instead of an account level and clear superiority of certain subclasses to others leading to a “meta first” mentality in a fair deal of the player base is pretty frustrating. What’s more frustrating is that these mentalities lead to quick kicking for no actually good or justifiable reasons and make the game experience much less enjoyable.

What if you’re on your third character (so account wise this could be level 60+) and want to play champ at level 10-15 with max level gear to level faster? Well good luck chances are you’ll get the boot even though you’ll match a good number of 20+ characters if not even exceed their hero power, and already have near 200+ hero power over what’s recommended. No questions asked, no way to even gauge skill (hero power/gear +skill > talents below legend, most people don’t need temp hp on champ much if at all on their 2rd+ go at it) just leads to baseless discrimination. Why should you have to play below what you’re having fun/doing well in?

What if you want to play a “sub-optimal” class on legend like say Slayer? Well get used to feeling the boot because forget being good enough to make it outside the meta, you’re not playing ironbreaker and somebody who couldn’t live without their meta crutch felt their chances of success threatened.

Really these changes might not fix the problems but they could do to lessen them;

  1. Display people account level under their character slot when you press tab
  2. Display people gear score under that same tab

These might at least give players who’re quick to assume too much from too little second thoughts, but also let people clearly know if someones who’s skilled it in their party or if it’s a newer player. Alternatively, consider removing kick altogether. It rarely does anyone good, and doing 1 run civilly with someone who’s unsatisfactory won’t kill you or your time. You could even add a report function with griefing to dissuade players from lashing out if they’re called out for bad antics in MP.

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do you really want to run with people who kick you because they think that levels = skill?

i wouldn’t want to, if i’m kicked, it’s a good sign that i won’t be joining a game with bad players.

that being said, i don’t have this problem cos my chars are all 30 tho.

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Honestly- NYPA.

If you want to play underleveled character on hard difficulty either ask people in the keep or become the host.
This post reeks of player scouting the server/lobby browser in order to join matches “in progress” to be carried and rewarded.

If you want to play a “suboptimal class” also, it would help greatly to create own lobby or simply speak to people about group composition.
You have no right to demand and impose your will on other players, ESPECIALLY when you are the one joining. And possibly impairing the run.

You propose solution to non existing problem.

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There’s an easy solution for your problem - just host your own games!

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I don’t fully agree with removing the “Kick” option, because I’ve had to use it - sadly - against people who were constantly dying, whether on purpose, or because they didn’t understand certain mechanics … or even because they were being a butt/elitest in chat to their teammates (please keep in mind I’m someone who does talk in VoIP and try to explain things to everyone when possible - in a friendly way - and also show where all tomes/grims are if someone doesn’t know).

But I do agree that if a super-under-levelled character is trying a higher difficulty (meeting the bare-minimum requirements to do a Champion or Legend mission) … it would be a lot easier to make a decision (kick or no kick) based on their current power level than just character level alone.

“Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his power level?!”
“It’s not enough to do Legend effectively - kick

Maybe that would be better than just displaying level. I understand still though that certain people who are still “really good” may get kicked, but maybe that would help minimize the problem in some way. There’s no way to tell if someone is super good or not - until they join your game and either completely wreck everything or just throw it.

kick is good for kicking douchebag elitists tho

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NYPC.

And who exactly gets to determine what level is “underleveled” for what difficulty? You? Me? In a public lobby with varying skills and abilities nobody should be able to impose their own subjective perception on other people like that. Get level 300 gear and champ is easy even as a level 1 if you play well. Playing as a level 10 with 400 hero power is excessive of what you need for champ. That’s my opinion and there are enough people who share it, but it doesn’t make it law. What isn’t opinion though is level is much less important then power, gear, and skill below legend, where level 20-25 talents actually make an important difference in function and power. And most people don’t enjoy not-playing the game and dying outside of their comfort difficulty, why do you think they leave as soon as they’re down or dead and so many? I don’t get where you have the notion that people “scout games to be carried in.”

It’s also funny how quickly you jump to assume and accuse somebody of “scouting servers/lobby browser” when I didn’t even mention the method of getting into games (quickplay by the way, you know, the main way most people seem to play, the random placement of people together?).

Further, if you want some super-set formation then start a private lobby or play with friends, the features are there for a reason. Quickplay is quickplay; having some plan or build isn’t a requirement, it’s just get in quickly and play what you want (and hopefully play something reasonable for your skill to win of course).

Nice double standard too, you say I have “no right to demand and impose your will on other players” while at the same time advocating for players with only uninformed opinions to be able to say “change or kick” or “leave or kick” based on somebody’s subclass or level and impose their own will on others.

Also @TravelMug ya I agree and think displaying power level at the minimum would be a nice change. It probably won’t make everyone super accepting and all right away, but it’d possibly make people more considerate.

I’ve been playing beta since it came out so I don’t know whats happening in vanilla, but I haven’t seen anyone being kicked for picking a specific career. Not once. I do legend runs with Slayers and other ‘‘sub-optimal’’ classes constantly, myself playing an Unchained with fireball or bolt, and switching between melee weapons depending on comp. And honestly if you’re joining a legendary match in vanilla and everyone else thinks you can only do it with the Scooby Doo Gang, then you’ve probably spared yourself a bad experience anyway. (On a side note, people are gonna die SO much when beta goes live, even when they tweak the balance, and any sort of elitist discrimination should be made null and begin ab initio)

In fact, I think its your gain and their loss. Hopefully there are plenty of games to fill in that vacuum.

And regarding the low lvl careers in champ - people just don’t have any info on your skill level other than time played. More time played, probably better, obviously not guaranteed. So it’s really a matter of including more information, such as Power level, like you yourself concluded, rather than removing the kick function. I’m sure they’ll include that info soon enough. Maybe even next patch, who knows.

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i lolled at scooby doo gang

same, actually i see the class quite often in legend quickplay, it’s pretty good too since there’s so much armor to hack down.

That really sucks, I’m sorry you’ve ran into such sh** folks. I’ve generally had good experiences but definitely a few like you described, especially when playing Shade. If you want some good folks to run with just shoot me a PM for my Steam name, I’ve got a group of 4 folks that all play for fun and keep it positive.

I do disagree with you about removing the kick function, but I think that has more to do with my own experience than anything else. I’ve had several games with friends where we would get joined by one random person who would intentionally try to kill us by FF, or constantly go AFK for several minutes with no warning, or just being super toxic in voice chat. Being able to kick in that situation is really nice.

At the end of the day some people are just going to be ass hats, and if they’re going to be elitist ass hats and kick you over something like being level 15 in champ or playing slayer, you probably don’t want to play with them anyway.

Best of luck finding better folks to stab rats with!

You have already seen it here.
Just be the host.
I dont know where this mentality to force other people to play with you is coming from.
And dont act like it wouldn’t save you a lot of trouble to generally kick out everything that could be bad. I dont care if level doesn’t ALWAYS equal skill. What I care about is that the chance to have a weak spot in my team is significantly higher when I play with people around lvl 10 on champion.

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The general consensus of the group, or the host. Simple as that.

Hero power is fine, but very often high level skills are if not crucial, then at least very beneficial to the group’s survival.

By encountering a fair share of them. And some joined multiple times, just to appear again for a while and shoot my group for kicking him.
( Wherever you are, lvl 9 kruber the back-blunderbussing kid, i hope you never win any match)

Why funny? People actually do that. Maybe it’s only bad experience shared by few. I hope so.

No double standards. If you host-you decide. If you join-you conform. Simple etiquette. Host/Group you just joined has the right to refuse to play with anyone. You have too. Difference is host/group can kick and you can only leave as a joining player.

Hundreds times this.

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No please no. kickvote is bae. If someone behaves like a bad bot, I wanna kick them. End of story.

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No. On older patches maybe, but on 1.05 your 420 hero power at level 10 or whatever isn’t enough for champion with the new scaling. you need the full 550-600 lvl 25+ or else you are just a liability and you are imposing a burden expecting higher level people to carry you. especially on certain classes like slayer/mercenary that only really shine with all their high lvl talents.

I’m not doubting your personal skill, but in champ/legend those talents really are important for saving the day in clutch situations. and you’ll just be much weaker in general in attacks than you were in 1.04.

Anyway, if fatshark removed kick host would just disband party and rehost, or just quit game and restart. they really have no obligation whatsoever to play with you.

And if you don’t like it then host your own darn champion game. Or make friends who will level up with you or carry you.

Or you could just stick to veteran until you are 25. You get lvl 300 gear on Veteran now. Only thing you’re missing out on is a chance at reds, which you’re unlikely to get with a group carrying a low level who sucks up all the heals and ammo because they don’t have lvl 20/25.

The elitism really is coming from you yourself thinking you’re so good that you won’t be a burden to the team at a lower level without your strongest talents. The people kicking you are making rational decisions based on experience. 1.04 and back I had no problem carrying some lower level people, but from experience on 1.05 beta and live you just end up with more wipes or lost books from carrying people like you.

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wrong. if i’m hosting and you join my game, you know what? MY computer is serving that game. If I don’t want you in my game for ANY reason, I kick you. I kick you if I don’t like your level, your name, your class, your voice, your 420 weed bro attitude, anything. If you don’t like it, THEN HOST YOUR OWN FREAKING GAME AND SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS

I GET TO DETERMINE WHAT IS UNDERLEVELED BECAUSE I AM HOSTING THE GAME.

You were accused of “scouting servers” because the simple solution to your problem is to HOST YOUR OWN GAME, and you can go have fun with whoever you want, take a full team of level 8 witchhunters into halescourge and have a blast.

This isn’t one of your freaking Marxist schools or corporate campuses. This is not your safe space. You do not get to DEMAND that other people play with you, pal. GROW UP.

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Well there is currently dozens of people who will instant kick evry non meta class (kick on join)

in their tiny little brain they think, only meta classes can complete legend (they are so wrong) , also those guys regard evry class which cant collect circles as inferior…

Dear meta guys, just ask yourself… if you struggle to complete legend as meta class, and there is people who do it with off-meta… how good player you are? Really stop instant kick people on join, before see someone in action.

This, most of the times with my group we “normally” draw the line at level 20 for champion or up. But if a player just joins in on our game we very rarely kick anyone, the most cases we’ve done it is when a cheater or a “Let’s skip his event” player joins.

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You have confirmed this by either kicking or being kicked for stated reason?
Or is this assumption because you got kicked?
( Maybe they were saving spot for a friend? Maybe they didnt like you, not the class? Maybe they lacked a role and you refused to change weaps etc? Dozens of possible reasons)

Yep

Yep x2

Exactly this. Kick serves a great purpose. It’s softer, more reliable, more refined solution.
Remove kick and host punishes 2 possibly innocent people and himself because of 1 misfit, who could be easily removed otherwise without any repercussions to the already-formed-and-going party.

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What’s wrong with 420 weed bro attitude D:

Kick 3 sec after you join the game, while you are still in castle… Those guys just not with their grps to be formed offmeta

They don like my class, they probably read somewhere than whc sux, or maybe got bad experience once… I got kicked like this 1 per 10 games…

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu