New Weapon Archetypes

So just like my thread about character archetypes, I wanted to consider the idea of new weapons - but not just “whatever cool idea/lore weapon doesn’t exist yet”. I wanted to consider carefully what new weapons might do that could be unique.

I’ve heard it said that the devs said they couldn’t think of many more weapon ideas (I’ve not seen this, myself), but it always struck me as odd.

So I put together a list of suggestions of melee and ranged for every character, at least one in each category that I think offers SOME kind of unique quality or gameplay style. I tried to be lore faithful, though for Kerillian’s melee . . . well, it’s a bit silly.

And yeah, I spent too much time thinking about this.

Bardin
Melee: Doomflail (Slayer)
A dual flail-like weapon with a cutting edge, Bardin would wield one in each hand, swinging them in broad spins angled in / and \ shapes in a repeating pattern. This would have a very broad attack pattern, and hit many targets, but would not have armor-piercing.
The charged attack would be a swinging both weapons down straight in front of him, then ripping them back. The initial swing down would do heavy AP, and the drag-back would also do minor damage, but heavily stagger targets towards Bardin.

Ranged: Throwing Axes (Ranger)
These thrown axes would have a sharp ballistic arc, but deal heavy damage - especially AP. They’d be one of the better ranged weapons for killing Chaos Warriors, having enough punch to pierce their armor. Their ammo would be somewhat limited, but if they could be picked back up, it would allow a good player to keep up some self-sufficiency. However, hitting at range would still require aiming extremely high - I imagine many players would GREATLY enjoy playing around with trying to nail the hit on that distant Stormvermin or Warpfire Thrower.
This weapon would make sense to tie specifically to the Ranger class, as that is not only an iconic weapon for Dwarf Rangers, but also because it will make the class more attractive.

Ranged: Trollhammer Torpedo (Ironbreaker)
A weapon aimed almost exclusively at boss-killing (and only available for the Ironbreaker), this weapon would have very little ammo (I’m thinking like 4-5 shots total), small splash, but huge damage. While it could be said this could trivialize bosses/lords, it’s at a steep trade-off, as you’d give up any reliable anti-special ranged. However, it would work well into certain team setups that don’t otherwise have boss-killing power (if you’re, say, lacking Shade, Bounty Hunter, or Huntsman). It also gives on-demand stun for when the Chaos Spawn grabs a friend. The relatively small area of the blast means it is less likely to do friendly fire.


Kerillian
Melee: Dryad’s Arm
Likely not too lore-friendly, though I don’t believe lore actually rules it out. Coming up with a unique melee weapon for Kerillian is pretty hard; she’s got a massive collection as it is.
Anyway, this is the disembodied arm of a Dryad . . . still alive, and seeking enemies. Even when held idle, it reachs and snaps around, and when used in melee, it slashes and clutches at them.
The most interesting attack would be its charged attack, where the magic of the Dryad summons sharp limbs to grow from the earth just in front of the user, creating a short-lived barrier that deals damage and heavy knockback, but also deals damage to enemies who touch it for its duration. Only one such wall could exist at a time.

Ranged: Averlorn Bow (Handmaiden)
A unique bow for the Handmaiden, this is based off those used by the Everqueen’s Court Guard. It is a magic bow that does not use ammunition, but instead would utilize the overcharge mechanic.
I imagine it as having nice damage and armor pen, but have very minimal pierce - so you can spam into a horde if you want, but you’re not going to clear a wave before you overheat.


Kruber
Melee: Awl Pike
A lot of people think Knight Kruber should have a lance, but I think this is a nice compromise, as an Awl Pike is not only a historic weapon, but one that was very common in the area of Germany. Basically a long stabbing blade on a pole with a circular guard just behind the blade, it would be a thrusting weapon akin to Kerillian’s spear, but with decent AP. It would be a good precision weapon, aiming for headshots for best effect, but also have good reach, allowing Kruber to strike enemies at range.
Despite mentioning Knight Kruber at the beginning, I wouldn’t actually make this exclusive to any career.

Ranged: Hochland Long Rifle
A very accurate rifle with a SCOPE - this is the ultimate long-range weapon. It would have a higher-than normal headshot multiplier, but also have a slower reload than even the standard handgun. This would give it a niche in not just picking off specials, but severely damaging Chaos Warriors at range (if you can land the headshots, that is). The slow reload, however, will mean it will have bad pace if you RELY on it. It would have almost no damage drop-off, making it very consistent if you build for bonus damage to be able to one-shot specials.
I wouldn’t tie this to any particular class.
EDIT: Perhaps it could be unique in having great penetration of even armored targets (and shield-piercing, of course), so that a well-lined up shot could kill multiple Stormvermin. I still don’t imagine it being able to one-shot Chaos Warriors (maaaaybe a crit headshot) without using something like Hunter’s Prowl or a Strength Potion.

Ranged: Carbine
A shorter version of the handgun, the carbine differs in that it is equipped with a bayonet. This means it cannot be aimed. To compensate, it will have a tight crosshairs, meaning that skilled players can hipfire approaching specials. It will have a more severe drop-off than the standard handgun.
The Bayonet is the most unique feature; it will be a single-target thrust attack that works similarly to dagger or rapiers; relatively low damage, but excellent headshot damage. This means the weapons is not useless when unloaded, and is perfect for hipfiring one approaching Stormvermin, then using a precise thrust to kill another. It cannot block, however, so it is inferior to a real melee weapon, but could be used to help compensate for lack of armor-piercing on your main weapon, to an extent.
This obviously can be compared to both the current handgun and the blunderbuss, but I feel does unique things from both, while remaining very lore-friendly. For one, unlike the blunderbuss, it cannot wipe a horde of a wave easily. Second, its melee attack is a precision one, instead of a sweep.


Saltzpyre
Melee: Comet Flail (Zealot)
Combining several ideas into one, the Comet Flail is a two-handed great flail (common to the Germanic/Slavic region in the time period WH reflects), but has TWO heads that are actually on fire to represent the Twin-Tailed Comet. This means it not only does damage, but can light enemies on fire with each swing. The light attack pattern would be basic diagonal slashes, which can again ignore shields, but either have none or minor AP. Where it gets really interesting would be in the charged attacks.
The first lets Saltzpyre swing the Comet Flail in a circle around him that hits all enemies in a 360-degree area. While the damage isn’t high, the stagger is good. The cooldown lag means it cannot be spammed forever to keep enemies permanently stunlocked, but can be used to buy a little time. This facilitates the nature of the Zealot in rushing into the fray, and deal with potentially getting surrounded. The second heavy attack is a lunging overhead that slams the flail heads into the ground, dealing heavy damage, including a lot of AP. If chained after basic attacks, this second attack can be utilized quicker, skipping the first charged attack, allowing it to more easily be used against armored enemies.

Melee: Sigmarite Hammer and Book
Kind of a Warhammer staple, not sure why it doesn’t appear in any form. Especially such a devout Sigmarite as Saltzpyre should get a hammer!
My thought is that in one hand Saltzy wields the hammer, and in the other an armored prayer book. The primary attacks would be sweeping attacks with the hammer - I’m not sure what pattern, but I think starting with an overhead and then going into sweeps would be useful, especially if continually swinging kept up the sweeps instead of just repeating the whole pattern.
The charged attack, however, would be unlike any other charged attack; instead of attacking, Saltzpyre would recite a prayer to Sigmar, imbuing his weapon with the Blessing of Sigmar. This buff would have a duration of 10-20 seconds, and make the weapon gain AP and improved sweeping (able to strike multiple armored targets without stopping). This means that to effectively use it, you’d have to dodge in and out of combat, pulling off prayers as needed to help you deal with armored enemies. I feel this could create a very unique dynamic for the weapon.

Melee: Plancon Cannon
This very unique and brutal historical weapon was a spiked club with a spear-like blade on top, and 1-4 tips at the tip that contained gunpowder and shot.
I imagine this as fitting well into Saltzpyre’s predilection for firearms and being a nice method of bashing.
Its basic melee combo would be bashing, ending in a heavy thrust with AP. Its charged attack would be a two-handed overhead, followed by a thrust that fires one of the barrels. Perhaps this could also be fired off with the third attack button. I imagine the burst as being a shotgun-like blast with very short effective range and wide spread, making it useful for staggering lots of enemies in front of you (or if pressed right up against an enemy as in the second charged attack, a very powerful single-target hit).

Ranged: Duckfoot Pistols
Functioning like the Brace of Pistols, the Duckfoot Pistols have a wide horizontal spread of shots with decent piercing to give Saltzpyre a nice horde-clearing ranged weapon. Of course, they can also be used to put five rounds directly into the face of a Stormvermin as well.
The secondary fire would not be the same as Brace, however, but involve an overhead bash with the metal-plated butt of the pistols, a single target attack, but one easy to headshot with.


Sienna
Melee: Dual Sickles (Unchained)
I feel like Sienna’s melee options really need to be better - especially for Unchained - and I think one thing she needs is a reliable fast weapon. Her solo dagger is very fast, but lacks much CC, so I feel that these dual sickles could be good slashing weapons with a relatively good attack speed and targets hit, to give her a way (appropriate to Unchained) of cutting through throngs of enemies.
When I describe these as sickles, I really mean more like Tomb King khopeshes. It may sound odd, but I just imagine that many Tomb King artifacts end up in the hands of Wizards (often being magical), and so this would give a unique look, while also fulfilling a role for Sienna.

Melee: Flame Scythe
The Flame Scythe would be Sienna’s heavy guns for melee. The blade would be made of flame, and attack with broad sweeps. Due to its magical nature, I imagine it to have innate armor-piercing, but attack relatively slowly.
I imagine the charged attack as being very slow, an upward sweep that is sort of the reverse of the Executioner’s Sword overhead (including a high charge). This attack wouldn’t get much out of headshotting, but be very slow and so hard to pull off, thus giving it high base damage should be okay.

Ranged: Sanguine Staff
Light Attack: Magma Bolt, a slow-moving heavy attack that deals high damage but also lots of stagger.
Charged Attack: Summons Sanguine Fire blades around Sienna, that can be shot out in rapid succession or saved for key moments. The longer you charge, the more blades appear, up to five. They last for a certain amount of time and could even be some kind of buff while retained, giving some kinda damage resistance or something. I imagine that fully charging creates a lot of heat, however, but maybe shooting off the blades actually reduces heat (by a small amount, not a ton). This means that you could prepare the blades in preparation for heavy combat, but you’ll also be filling up your overcharge meter, so you can’t just then spam light attacks.

9 Likes

haven’t read through because i’m at work but…

i want a whip.

I hope to get your thoughts when you do get a chance to read through. :slight_smile:

I did not mention a whip (I assume a fire whip for Sienna? I’ve heard that mentioned a lot) because I wasn’t sure what it would do that would be unique.

Just gonna run through it fast cause I got no time

Love it

Love it, especially with the RV passive, you can make them few ammo with no fear, this way it punish spamming them, but it does reward good players with incredible damage

Yes sure the small spash limit FF, but if a mate goes in front of you when you charge, that’s the freakin end for him xD The idea is good overall, but I’m not sure it would fit this easily into the game

I’m really unsure about this… I know for sure I wouldn’t use it, but I can’t tell why x’)

This is really good, would just necessitate to change the Handmaiden “Bonus ammo” talent to a “Bonus ammo / Higher overcharge cap”

Basically a two handed rapier (gameplay talking only) ? I like that.

The idea is good, but I do think it would be unpractical… Too high reload time are a bad thing imo, cause it means you’re useless during that time, and even more time if you had to swap to melee to defend yourself. I’d prefer puting just a really small amount of ammo, with an only slightly higher reload than handgun.

Why not… Don’t really have an opinion on this

Love that one

Move the prayer special move to middle mouse button. And I’d love to see the push attack being a small wave of sigmarite light

Not really sure about this one :confused:

Goood

I’d more see chains as her fast crowd control weapon. Like, litteral chains with spikes and little blade around it, waving it everywhere, not dealing huge damage but good cc, and they start to deal DoT damage when you’re on high overheat. The charged attack could have some reach by throwing chains right in front of her

Really enjoy the idea, plus a Scythe is a good weapon to give Bleed effect, so this would be a really DoT designed weapon, with slow attack but both Fire and Bleed DoT activating on attacks.

I like the Magma Bolt, not really sure summoning stuff is a good idea tho

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I love the Sigmarite hammer idea. Saltzpyre needs a hammer, no questions asked! I could see it working with a light attack chain similar to Sienna’s mace, but not the charged attacks which go on indefinitely. (that just sounds OP to me). The “charged attack” on the hammer would be an interesting change, and a good way to differentiate it from the other hammer. It would probably have to have a short cooldown or something though.

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Thanks for the thoughts and feedback - seeing red hot chains for Sienna would be a really awesome idea! That would be more fitting than the sickles/khopesh.

Here is the plancon cannon, btw. I think it could look cool and is a pretty unique type of medieval weapon, which is why I am a proponent of it. :slight_smile:

The Dryad’s Arm is . . . well, all I could think of for a melee weapon for Kerillian that would be unique. XD It’s really straining, I fully admit.

As for the Sanguine Staff - I tried to think of something very unique that fits the lore. :slight_smile: I imagine after charging up the Sanguine Blades, you can shoot them off by right-clicking again. Maybe it wouldn’t be the most useful of her staves, but I think it’d be a lot of fun.

This is my favorite idea. I would like more weapons in the game that have both melee and ranged functions. Right now we’ve got the grudgeraker, blunderbuss, and rapier. One of my favorite mechanics in the game is restoring ammo on critical bashes with scrounger grudgeraker or blunderbuss. It’s so satisfying to hear that crit sound when you bash into a horde and see your ammo count go from 0/0 to 0/8. Same with picking off rats with the rapier pistol, or getting a shot off and dropping an enemy as you block. It feels like you’re getting away with something.

This would be hilarious. I’d be alright if they copy/pasted shield and hammer. I want to hit enemies with a book.

This is a cool one. Something like a 15 round max limit would prevent spamming, while the bash + scrounger would keep it relevant.

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I find most of this egregiously unlikely, but the carbine does seem like it has real potential. Kruber desperately needs a new ranged weapon, as does the dwarf, and this here is actually quite promising. I mean, it won’t happen, but it’s no longer just the grenade launcher that may happen for him!

Also, hammer&book is so damn obvious that I can’t believe it hasn’t been done. Oh wait, I can’t, it’s shartfart. Still… Though the book should really just be a shield substitute. I mean, okay, it should be a special attack, but they really want us to forget it exists.

Whoa, dude, you almost sounded positive there for a second, be careful. :stuck_out_tongue:

I feel like if the Sigmarite holy book was used as a literal shield that’d be a real waste of its potential . . . And probably sacrilegious. I mean, I imagine it’s armored only to protect it from harm, not to be used as a literal shield. I don’t think it’d be as penalizing for mobility, either.

While i’m sure new weapons are far from the forefront of Fatsharks priorities, throwing ideas at them couldn’t hurt and shows our interest in the game and highlights what we want. Theres two fo your ideas I really like and want to expand on. The Averlorn bow and throwing axe.

Bow of Averlorn:

This is the perfect addition for the handmaiden as it’s the signature weapon of the sisters of Averlorn, the handmaidens of the Everqueen. But to stick to lore I think it should be a hard-hitting weapon that ignores armor. It could fill that niche of a low spammable anti-armor ranged weapon that opens up handmaiden more to not use an anti-armor melee weapon.

Functionality:

Make it do the same armor and unarmored damage (even against CW). I love the magical overcharge mechanic idea. This gives the Handmaiden a good ammo sustainable ranged option. But balance it so you can’t spam it. 2-3 shots before you overheat, but when you overheat you don’t blow up, instead you have to wait till it naturally vents to zero (it punishes you with no ranged option instead of death). But you get no slowdown with overcharge. Furthermore, while you have infinite ammo you only get a few shots before you have to vent, sacrificing hp to try and spam. Make the overcharge meter color light blue so you know it’s a similar mechanic but different and less deadly.

Also it could be cool if it could be guided. It could follow your cursor like a wire-guided missile in other videogames. Give it a kinda slow velocity but allows you to hit stuff far away if you keep aiming. Or you can cancel it (leaving it on that trajectory) by letting go of mouse1 and click again to start a new one.

Damage:

Should 4 short CW, so ~30+ dmg per shot? Double or more to ‘monster’ armor class, so 60+ vs bosses and packmasters? It should have potential to one shot body shot stormvermin with investment of pwr vs armor/skaven.

Could be interesting to give it no head shot multiplier but then play around with damage numbers.

Utility:

  • Completely ignores shields, as its magic and ignores armor.
  • Should pierce enemies of less than ~30 hp doing dmg from a pool till all the dmg is applied to something or it hits a wall or ground.
  • Also it should have no ‘bullet drop’ as its magic and not subject to aerodynamics.
  • Could also play with giving it zero stagger but higher damage (maybe 1.5x).

It would be the spiritual successor to the truflight of V1, but in function it would fill a different role.

Throwing axe:

This could be just what ranger Bardin needs to make it more viable/easier to get good value. I’m imagining a high damage, high utility, low range option that is fairly spamable and the main way ranger presence is felt.

Functionality:
Make it a low ammo count option, 6-8 with ranger ammo buff, that has built in sustain with the thrown axe pick up idea. Maybe if you press ‘e’ over the thrown axe you get it back, and only works on dead enemies. Except bosses, if you can look at one of you axes sticking out of a boss and press ‘e’ you get it back. This would encourage one to throw at short-range targets/throw forward along the map. If you spam long-range targets off the map or well out of the way then you will run out of ammo quickly.

Damage:
Needs to be high damage. 2-3 shot body shot maulers (2 with 10%> pwr vs chaos/infantry). One shot head-shot stormvermin, and with like ~25% pwr vs skaven/armor one shot body-shot SV. Have no dmg difference for CWs, making it a 3-4 shot body shot against them (3 with 20-30% pwr vs chaos/armor). Basically the damage should be about low-mid 40s for unarmored targets and low-mid 30s for armor targets. Maybe give it berserker increase so it one-shot body shots all berserkers w/out any help.

  • Idea is for it to be single target elite killer.
  • Also could have good headshot multiplier.

Utility:
Based on the real life Francisca (namesake of the Franks I believe) it could be an anti shield option. Franciscas were famous for bouncing off the ground or rolling along the ground then climbing up a shield wall and wacking people in the head.

  • Therefore, have it break wooden shields of marauders and let it climb over the shields of stormvermin, to functionally ignore them.
  • But also have them bounce or ricochet off the ground and still do damage (limit to one bounce so they stick in the ground on the second bounce)
  • Maybe if it’s a direct hit it breaks the shield or sticks into a SV shield, but if you bounce on the ground it climbs over and ignores the shield.
  • Also it would be cool to give it a taunt/fear effect where if it kills something all non-special/elite enemies around the kill will cower in fear or run away for like 3 seconds.
  • Give it a lot of stagger. Let it stagger CWs, maybe even interrupt some of their attacks (just not the overhead?). A head shot on the Chaos spawn will force it to drop a grabbed ally?

I know these would be a pain in the ass to program and animate and whatnot but I think the community would appreciate interesting weapons with unique mechanics and utility. I am imagining a bunch of extravagant animations for the axe in how it bounces and rolls. Make it look scary to be around. The bow could be this hard hitting laser that snipes key targets but can only be used so much. If we got one really intricate weapon like these with a DLC i feel the community would be happy and appreciative.

TLDR:

  • Magic bow for handmaiden that is anti-armor and uses a form of overheat mechanic instead of ammo.
  • Throwing axe for Ranger that has low ammo count but you can pick it up. Is good against armor and shields.
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All very nice ideas and everything seems lore-friendly.

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Would love a simple two handed flame sword on Sienna ^^ Or an chain weapon like a kusarigama.

Okay, an awesomely stupid (or stupidly awesome, your pick) idea just occurred to me. I don’t really know how feasible it would be, and how well it would work in practice, but…

An exclusive melee weapon for Unchained has bee requested from pretty much day one. And there have been plenty of suggestions, some more useful and sensible than others. I’m not claiming that this would really be any more sensible, or even better than many others, but I think dual-wielded Flame Swords could be a fitting option for Unchained exclusive. I think an all-rounder option would be best for UC exclusive melee, as her other melee weapons aren’t that strong in any particular part anyway, and I think she needs something that’s just a bit better than her other options (kind of like Dual Axes on Slayer).

Visually, I’m thinking of a style that’s more brute-force than Sienna in general, to go with Unchained’s general idea, looking so that she’s just picked up another weapon and swings around wildly. I think that would pair up well with the weapons being a mismatched pair. Light attacks for crowd-clearing, wide sweeps, possibly with DoT; Heavy attack for armor, either through heavier sweeps like Empire Two-Hander, or through headshots; push-attack for headshots or stabs. Could well be combined with a power-up mechanic of some sort, through Overheating or Weapon Special (or both).

Sigh. This kind of sounds like the posts I usually pick apart in these threads. Oh, well; I blame a spur-of-the-moment idea and being somewhat tired for that.

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It’s okay to have fun!

@Winthiefow
I had another thought regarding the Hochland Long Rifle; perhaps it could have good piercing, even of armored targets? Imagine lining up a shot and taking down four Stormvermin in a patrol with a single shot . . . that would be pretty damn useful. I don’t imagine it could one-shot a Chaos Warrior (without some ability active like Hunter’s Prowl), but it would give it a unique niche for a ranged weapon, being able to pierce armored targets.

Looks cool, but what if you throw half swording into it ?
Middle mouse button, she grabs the sword to increase the fire on it, and deliver a pointy stabby stab for nice headshot and DoT
(Or just put it in the charged combo, and add mix-up to her combos. The first two heavies would be large sweep, the first two light small sweep, the third heavy is the pointy hald swording, the third light is the weird sweep-from-the-same-side they thrown into glaive and some other two handed. You can go from light/heavy n to any light/heavy n+1. Completely rounded up)

@BizarreSalp like the piercing through units, but it means one hunter prowl and two shot could kill a full patrol :confused:

If it was four max penetration, then two shots would only kill eight of the patrol, AND they’d have to be lined up - they’re only going to be that lined up for prolly the first shot, after which they tend to spread out. If you can pull off another quad in that situation, you deserve it! :smiley:

Sorry to double post, but it seems my idea for the Dryad Arm is not THAT much against lore . . . while not the arm of a Dryad, per se, this has a very similar effect to my idea:

Alas, Kerillian doesn’t use magic. It’s maybe lore friendly but not character friendly (if you get what i meant to say)

Would be a cool new carreer though.

True, a magical stave isn’t for her, but it does go to show that it’s possible for things from Athel Loren to remain living even when they logically shouldn’t!

I would love to see a Spellsinger career for her, though. :smiley:

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