Ok now this is semantics, polls, no polls, participation, no participation (yes, its a Kung-Fu Panda reference - Im a big kid lol)
There is no bulletproof way of doing it. As you stated earlier, anything you do is gonna pi55 someone off. Cant please everyone was another posted earlier. All true. All we can do is do our best to find out what hardcore gamers think. If you have 1000+ hours in the game, and play it daily, then perhaps there is a REASON you keep playing it? Maybe you have the game experience to explain WHY you SHOULD or SHOULD NOT have such a system. Earlier @flisker said ‘I could write an essay on why the stagger mechanic is a bad thing’ or something similar (please excuse me, I am not quoting here)… and I bet he is right. Now ask someone with 50 hours in the game. He can answer, but I bet his experience limits him to giving an in depth response
I am not saying only those with a lot of in game hours somehow have a ‘more valuable’ opinion. All are equal in that regard, but wouldnt you rather hear a review of a game from someone that actually gave it a chance? Dont you think their input has more collateral weight because of their time spent in the game?
Either way, nothing is certain. I have no answers, just questions.
Nothin in there I disagree with and would endorse it if asked…
I did acknowledge ‘the elephant in the room’ earlier… perhaps a little late… but that list (although recent) isnt the only time FS has listened. I remember a topic I made about glaive responsiveness and this annoying buffered attack that couldnt be block cancelled. Now, I know it wasnt JUST my post that did it, but literally… the next patch (which was the next day in this case) it was completely resolved
I mean, I crap on Fatshark… but I dont MEAN to if you know what I mean. I expect MORE. Damnit I have gotten the best game ever made and now? I want it BETTER! Its never enough you know… lol
Heck, one day I was talking to a friend in my lobby and I we were talking about how people only ever post on the forums when they have bad things to say or deal with… so I went on and posted something POSITIVE. They arent evil… they just make decisions that have a greater negative impact than they anticipated. At least, thats what I believe
I just dont like the stagger-to-damage model. Period. No matter when they rolled it out, Id be all whiney and rollin around on the ground screaming like a 5 year old either way lol
i KNOW most devs knew before the game even went live these things would be issues (density, phasing, phantom swing, etc) because they heard all about it during the original Beta.
I think most devs knew it would be an issue somewhere long before the Beta. I bet they brought this stuff up in staff meetings.
because I can tell that the average fatshark worker loves their product. it’s obvious. they do care. all one has to do is look at vt1 and how much time they invested into fixing stuff when there was no profit from doing so. they did it because they love the game.
so somehow the guys who actually do stuff knew their would be problems had their concerns ignored and they were told to ‘just do it anyway’ and now here we are with these same guys who knew it wouldn’t work being told to fix it.
want to bet the clown that told them do it this way is still sitting in his corner office with nice view and got a hefty bonus out of it has managed to completely remove themselves from any responsibility for their screw up? that’s what I’d bet my left leg on.
There was not a frickin single solid argument on why the stagger mechanic makes any sense as global mechanic applied to everything in this game, and there was long list of issues it produces. So if in that case devs still think it’s amazing well than they push and than they get pain from public like they got on pre-release and like they are getting now.
Either the arguments are good or not, it doesn’t matter if it comes from one guy or 20.
In this case it wasn’t just few people being against it.
So if something is not working well and it’s creating all sorts of issues, it’s wise to still keep it because otherwise it would be too hard emotionaly on the dev who wrote the code ?
Is this all this topic is about?
I thought it’s a discussion whenever Fatshark is listening to their fans or not. I feel like @scottz0rz made a pretty compelling argument to the fact that they are indeed listening.
They do listen sometimes, but this isnt a simple change and in my experience, it has been a negative one. I am not the only one I am sure. Some have agreed, and some have disagreed. This is a forum to relay your thoughts, as @scottz0rz did, very eloquently
This topic is about speaking your mind, and your experience with 2.0 as well as a place where you can say something negative (god forbid! GaSP!) OR positive about these game changing mechanics
My version of that is simple. Stagger to damage. Its a BAD thing. I have heard, and am looking for other beta testers to speak up, that FS had received an overwhelmingly negative response from their beta testers and then did not implement those suggestions. Opposite of good business practice
Question remains still. Why? Why now, but not before in beta. Why go through all the changes and only now decide to for the most part revert quite a bit?
You mean before the release right? And they did that, WoM released yesterday. Beta is there to test and adjust, of course they won’t implement it before the beta.
Edit: missed the “in” in “before in beta” but point still stands, they did change it when it was still in beta.
Yes, Chaos, but it shouldnt BE there in the first place
Stagger should be a stagger-to-keep-enemy-from-attacking thing… not a stagger-equals-extra-damage thing
Those talents? They shouldnt BE there. If you wanna rework talents, DO it, but dont add a mechanic like this that changes the core game. If it was WoM only, fine. You BUY into that mess. But for GODS sake, dont make the rest of us
As I understand it, the power talent makes you do roughly the same damage as before 2.0, and the stagger talents give bonus damage to blunt weapons to make them more viable. Since blunt was really bad before.
I don’t like stagger and I agree for the most part on why I think it’s a poorly-thought out mechanic. If I had time, I would write an essay about it. Let’s face it, you know I would.
I’m getting ready for work in the morning right now so it is difficult for me to carry on a conversation like this.
Without digging up and citing specific examples, there are a lot of times where developers push changes they think are for the best, and the users initially react horribly to the change. Sometimes it’s for the best, sometimes it’s not. It could be an issue with the actual implementation/execution of the idea is poor, or it could be an issue where the idea itself is bad.
I think you and I stand on the side of “stagger is intrinsically bad”, but we could be wrong about it. As a global mechanic that needs to be explained from level 10, it seems weird. If it was more limited in scope and effect, it could be a decent mechanic.
Design decisions aren’t that simple. People may be outnumbered, but their opinion may have more weight to the decision if they’re more informed on it.
There is such instances where “mob rule” shouldn’t come into play, in all aspects of life. Just because the majority think that’s the solution doesn’t mean it’s the best solution. The majority may be stupid. That’s why we have checks and balances in the US government to insulate and protect smaller groups and ideas that are infringed upon by larger, louder voices. A purely democratic system doesn’t work to drive the best decisions always: it can be manipulated maliciously, it can be manipulated as a prank, or it may just generate a lot of responses from people that have only the mental capacity to click a multiple choice option on a survey.
Light-hearted example that I won’t link: look up the “Dub the Dew” campaign to vote for the new Mountain Dew flavor and ask “why didn’t Pepsi just go with the most popular option?” It’s funny, if you’re not familiar.
So if something is not working well and it’s creating all sorts of issues, it’s wise to still keep it because otherwise it would be too hard emotionaly on the dev who wrote the code ?
I am reading this as a loaded question. I do not know if that was your intent. I will answer it as a genuine question.
You’re slightly misunderstanding the point. There are many reasons, some may apply in this scenario.
If a senior developer made a decision and stands by it, you may be reluctant to contradict his design decision. What if the CEO or a game director likes/dislikes something when he plays the game? It’s an appeal to authority fallacy, sure, but it’s a very common one where lower level employees don’t like contradicting their superiors.
If a person who is no longer at the company made a decision and we rolled with it, we do not have that person as a resource to look at their code. It explains a lot of “legacy systems” that are bad, but it’s hard to justify the development resources to go back and clean them up. In the case of stagger, it’s new, so it’s probably not this. But, it would explain other issues…
If it was a good design decision, but a junior developer did a poor implementation of it, do you want that same developer to the re-write to fix their own code? Or, do you want to share some knowledge within the organization so that maybe a more tenured dev can take a crack at the implementation to get the spirit and letter of the changes to be more accurate.
TL;DR - I don’t like stagger, but I’m a dev so I mean I kinda empathize with the plight. I could go on, maybe I will later, but I’m going to work. Ciao.
Thats a good question but I have no experience in that field. I only tested on the dummy in the keep lol
Some people do it right. They load up modded realm and get to some testin! This new damage is NOT what it was 1.7. I read someone say breakpoints are pointless. I didnt fully understand what they meant, but its likely related to the 20, 40 or 60 % damage multiplier. Cant build for a definite if you cant be uhh… definite
Changes are inevitable, but I believe THIS change… the stagger one… has had a more negative effect than even FS realizes
