NEW Topic - CONTINUED discussion - Fatshark needs to LISTEN to customers

Before 2.0 and this SILLY stagger-to-damage model, the difficulty level of the game was balanced imho…

But SINCE 2.0, and with respect to the pre 2.0 game, the reality is this…

Legend isnt legend, its Legend+
Champion isnt Champion, its Legend
Veteran isnt Veteran, its Champion
Recruit is still silly easy, but thats the point

Cataclysm!? I am not a masochist, and I never see a game in the list at that difficulty

Before all of you jump down my throat here about just playing on a lower difficulty, I have over 3600 hours in this game and am very familiar with the old difficulties and was very comfortable in even a legend pub with decent players. I expected a NEW difficulty I could practice for, not a totally new game mechanic (the idiotic stagger mechanic) that changes the core game. Perhaps its stagger resistance? Enemy mass? (and therefore cleave) Raised attack animation speeds? Enemy reach increases? I dont know what exactly was done with 2.0, but it sure wasnt a GOOD thing

This is the truth coming from a hardcore V2 player. Just saying… I have less fun playing now

EDIT: I havent bought the expansion, and I see no reason to support this kind of development in a game I used to enjoy SO much more

2ND EDIT: Look, I can complain about balance all day. The fact that it does not suit me is irrelevant really. I can complain about how overly EASY the event in Fort Brachsenbruche was, OR complain about how rediculously HARD it has become in comparison. I am not complaining about balance, that is a slow process, and many positive developments have happened to that end. What I AM complaining about here is simple…











In the end (as I was a day late to the party) the topic was closed. I am reopening it for discussion, and I believe it will help FS hear the voice of their customers.

I have no answers unfortunately, just complaints. I just hope they are heard and someone has some constructive input. I wish I did :confused:


Funny how other people are very upset because game is too easy now.


Am a customer as well. My experience is completely different from yours. After a period of adjusting to new talents and mechanic a bit, the game is not exactly more difficult anymore, just a little different. And in my opinion not nescessarily in a bad way either. Game feels a little more tactical, enemies are individually and in a horde a bit more dangerous. I like that, now you have to respect them instead of consider them walking white health.

I admit there is room for some balancing improvement for certain weapons / classes, and I haven’t played everything yet so I might not share your exact experience, but so far I’m having a lot of fun and I feel the game is going in the right direction. There’s probably a big component of personal taste involved in that as well, I know.

Just thought I’d offer my experience here as well. Don’t want to invalidate anybody else’s experiences, but I am getting a bit tired of all the melodramatics about Fatshark killing the game because they are oblivious, or not listening to people (which they objectively are - you’re just not getting 100% your way). And don’t get me started about the people that cry out about having unistalled the game yadda yadda, and then post that 500 times, pretending like they actually aren’t playing anymore.


For what it’s worth, my experience is kinda similiar. I actually do like how the fight feels now.


LOVED your response. Very good points - well said imo

I hope your optimistic view is correct. I am resistant to change, but hope things improve

I also really dislike it when people use the ‘im not playing this game anymore!’ line, and then play the hell outa it lol

I have a problem with stagger-to-damage. I feel it should be stagger-to-stay-alive lol

Bonus damage for ‘levels of stagger’? Not my cup of tea…


To continue our conversation.

You not noticing that there were people wanting and happy with changes is kinda on you.

Just check WoM Community Poll not everyone is disliking change.


Just gonna add something real quick (cause lul 37 GB i haven’t finished downloading the updoot yet xD)

You not seeing any Cataclysm game in the lobby list might come from the fact that it’s an hard as hell gamemode, and thus require real teamworks (pushed to the limit), so most players that attempt it are going to go in with a full friends party, and not rely on pugs.


Yes, fair enough. But this topic had been kinda one sided before.

Not noticing? Of course I know there are people who LIKE these changes!


During the beta (of which I was NOT a part of btw), was the testers response to game mechanic changes a positive or negative one?

^ The answer to that question as I have surmised, and heard, and read is the very reason I started this topic

Firstly, I was NOT there. Though, all that I have heard is that it was overwhelmingly negative, and the game was deployed with the changes as is… and I can not speak for everyone of course, but neither can you. This is a place we can all have a say and maybe some things come to light?

EDIT: Just noticed your link to the poll. Interesting. So its not overwhelmingly negative… its just MORE negative than positive? That seems to be a problem

Yeah, absolutely voice your opinion and your grievances. I don’t want you to not say anything when you dislike stuff. I just wanted to show that the reception of this patch is at least mixed.


Had to edit it in since I didn’t want to give you misleading numbers.

I kinda have to stress that people who enjoy changes are less likely to participate in discussing them instead just playing the game.


Well, no truer words were ever said…

To paraphrase, if I may…

How the HELL do you get people to say NICE things on the forums!? They are PLAYING the GAME! :wink:


Pre 2.0 I used to mindlessly farm legend solo while watching tv. Now I have to turn off distractions and actually pay attention. That is a good direction IMO.

I don’t understand why people are so resistant to dropping down a difficulty. Like that somehow makes them, less than. There is no shame in it, play whatever is the funnest. Although, challenging yourself is the best way to learn and git gud, and failing repeatedly is a part of that process. Just have to take the failures in stride and don’t get too frustrated by it. It took me like 20 failures in a row before I started beating legend post 2.0 (granted, my characters were still lvl 30 and a lot of those were crashes XD lol).


People don’t like dropping the difficulty for at least one reason: the rewards are worse.

And why should they get worse rewards for same effort they needed to put in now than they did before?


Hmmm, makes sense. I guess for me personally it’s all about gameplay and not rewards. 3000+ hours in L4D1 and 2 with no rewards whatsoever.


I guess I feel like I shouldnt have had to ‘change’ anything. Difficulty or otherwise. I had hoped to ADD a difficulty I could practice. We didnt get that tho did we? We got a bump on all difficulties, and then another one (that you dont see in lobby lists because of its insanely high difficulty imo - btw, a friend pointed out to me that because I dont own the expansion, I wouldnt SEE those lobbies - lol - BRAIN FaRT!) on top. This isnt really about difficulty tho is it? Its about a core mechanic that was added to the game against the majority of customer wishes

Imagine. The expansion being just that. An expansion. Not a complete rework to the core game

I have played more champion lately than I ever have. Its just a word, but thats not ‘pride’ talking btw, its a cliche… but its the principal. It SHOULDNT have been changed in the first place

If FS had listened to their own customers DURING the beta, Id have nothing to complain about would I? I mean, why make a change that your customers DONT want? That was with the beta… and now LIVE, you see a link @Bankrotas provided that reaffirms this. Why make that choice? I know I wouldnt

The fact that we may feel differently about the game, or how it feels or balance or what donald trump wore to dinner yesterday matters not. What DOES matter, however, is understanding WHY this road was chosen

Going against more than half of your customer base (and with respect, you may be represented in the lower percentile category if you feel this is a GOOD thing) HAD to make sense somehow. I just cant see how it could

We all have opinions, but FS has answers…


Sure, but when game’s progression is tied to drops, you can expect human greed to play a decent role in motivation of a player.

This! So, the game became harder? (I still doubt that since last patch, but for the sake of argument it did.) And now you have to drop down a difficulty, because old Legend = new Champion or something. That is not a bad thing! You’re just as good as you were. Now you have more room for new challenges. You suddenly get 2 new difficulties instead of one! :smiley:

Just accept the wipes, especially in the first period. It’s not you; it’s the game. You’ll get used to the new situation eventually, and then you’ll actually hav gotten better. Change and challenge is how you get better! Just stop seeing a wipe as a failure. Learn to have fun even if you lose the round, and you’ll keep having fun, and then you’ll only have more more when you suddenly find you can beat the challenge as well!


Well, I can’t speak to what “most” people do or don’t want like a lot of people seem to be able to do, but I did want these changes.

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Accept the changes… well… we kinda have to huh? I like you optimism, but I certainly dont agree lol

Its not about difficulty. Its about why it was implemented against customer feedback in the first place

But, I digress lol