Ehm, that is exactly what Cataclysm does, it spams more of everything, it has much bigger patrols and more trigger points for them and bosses and more stuff in events.
And… it works pretty well.
And how about changing that?
They spoke about bettering their communication, but look like everything is back as was before the beta.
I can understand why devs don’t respond much for any game. Since you can’t make everyone happy, no matter what you say it’s going to upset someone. Then it begins a chain reaction that just takes up time and resources.
I keep redirecting every now and then. The topic is all revolving around how 2.0 feels to YOU and, if you were in the beta, whether you feel FS listened to your input regarding game direction
I can guess, but thats just a… guess. lol
Nobody expects a conversation.
But if they told at the start of the pre-release beta that “we will periodically tweak the stagger-related values as to find the sweet spots we are looking for and you can expect it being patched every 3-5 days with different directions in mind” nobody would have raged that 2.0.4. made the game too easy and they should bring it up again.
This kind of missing communication was promised to be fixed after the previous beta, yet did anyonw see a post like it?
Exactly…
FYI if you look at the latest patch it’s evident they are starting to wake up. Abit to late though…
It’s almost like nobody could see this happen…
Hmm, well said
Driffting off a little bit maybe but I guess what I am advertising is people being less judgmental than they are.
Maybe it´s the way you started your topic that made me think you were on the side of WE want 1.7 version back and the listen to your customers sounded like you demanded the changes to be reverted which is why I replied the way I did I guess.
My previous statement still holds true though I think we should give it some time before trying to change something
Also the rules a politician lives by lol
Though… true
I DO wish Fatshark (who is important to me because they have developed and deployed my favorite game ever) would listen more. I am under the possible misconception that my view is obtuse? That somehow these changes should make the game more FUN? I cant see it. How? Its a mistake imo. The bottom line is they are a company, and we live in a capitalist (unfortunately) society… and it seems to me that they will LOSE money rather than EARN it with this kind of consumer ignorance
I’m all for more communication, but I’ve seen countless times when devs accidentally slip into “broken promise” territory and the #*&$ storm that ensues. Just saying I understand why devs go radio silent more often than not. Usually turns out better for them to just work on results rather than words.
i know because the dev’s have said so. both in podcasts and in posts.
for instance on the balance 2.0 post by fatshark on this forum is this quote
“With the systems in place now we have a lot more flexibility in scaling difficulty in a way that doesn’t just inflate numbers, but provides us with a selection of dials we can tune in order to create hard yet engaging combat situations.”
aka …
we had no real way to scale difficulty before without just inflating numbers
all you have to do is READ what they are saying. its all right there. go back to other updates, patches, etc. look at it. they flat out tell you what they are doing and why. all you have to do is READ.
there is an argument made against what i am saying.
“But this is Vermintide 2. If you wanted less on the screen, but more difficulty, you wouldnt use the word horde, or even be playing this game. It would be another game”
and that sums up it quite neatly.
you want them to throw it all at you and the devs are saying this doesnt work. it causes more problems that they cant solve yet.
i get wanting a challenge. we all do.
but the point is that what you are advocating has been directly stated to be an problem and they are tyring to get away from it and to have other approaches to solve the issues. you dont like their method. fair enough. i dont think anyone really does. but the point is that your solution just doesnt work.
so maybe settle for something you arent happy with rather than argue for what just doesnt work. eh?
I’m sure they will get to a better place eventually. It’s just that coding takes time and they have to go through a trial and error process to find the right fit for the community.
Hmm, well… all I have is what I read, so you think that FS in there somehow says ‘Yeah, we didnt listen and took the game in a direction opposite of that indicated by our testers’? Or you think its more like ‘We didnt hear a thing. Because we didnt want to. We have our reasons’. I dont think there is anything like that anywhere on the forums. Oh and again, this is NOT about hyperdensity. This is about implementing 2.0 against feedback results. Difficulty is a product of the games system, and if you wanted to ADD one… then ADD it. How? I have no idea. But, dont change the system to make it a reality. Hyperdensity included.
Its the stagger-to-damage model I have a problem with. The individual tweaks to enemy health, or difficulty vamps in events etc… those are a continual balancing thing. The stagger mechanic? Cant turn that off. Its core. Now, Scottie, remove that damn core and pop the ship! lol
There is no argument in those words. They are simply stating that V2 is a game that REVOLVES around many enemies. Thats it. Horde. The word. Anything other than many enemies on the screen, and its not Vermintide anymore. Again, NO argument
Aren’t they already? They responded to a question like half a hour ago and I think the devblogs and patchnotes did tell their views on the matter well enough.
And I didn’t put forth any suggestions during the public and invitation beta, but I did put forth some suggentions and agreed with others in discussions during the pre-release one and do feel like they listened to a lot of it.
I think a lot of people are expecting the exact things they are talking about to get into the game but it’s not that easy. I am sure they are balancing all the suggestions with their own intentions and plans for the game.
Oh GOD do I EVER hope you are right @Chaos5715. I am very pessimistic in nature, and love it when someone else… ISNT. lol
Ok enough. I need to acknowledge the elephant in the room.
Yes.
Fatshark has HEARD what players have said. AND implemented changes to that end
The stagger resistance reduction, the talents (that you already had) being hidden behind a level wall you now need to climb again etc. And I am sure those arent the only ones
My problem isnt as I have said, something small. I can gain that talent I lost. NOT a problem. My elf is +580 or something in level? My Saltz is +450 or something? My Dwarf is +420 or something. Another 5 levels? Not a problem. But hey! This STAGGER to DAMAGE thing… Can I DISABLE IT!? Nope. lol
And now you have people that like the mechanic, so what do you do?
Disable it to everyone? That would anger a few people, not just players but also possibly the devs working on it.
Disable it for some? Well talk about a balancing nightmare, I thought balancing was the main issue with the stagger here.
You can tell they are now trying to change it so everyone is at least content if not happy.
LOVE this question, because for ONCE I have an ANSWER!
EASY!
Find out what their players, no, CUSTOMERS think. ASK them DIRECTLY in a HUGE poll whether they should completely remove the stagger mechanic from the game. Then DO it.
I may be under some sorta misconception here as I previously stated, but Id be willing to bet my LEFT LEG that those who ask for its REMOVAL will GREATLY outnumber those who wish it to stay
^ But, as illustrated earlier its pretty hard to know for sure what people think. Thats what these discussions are for. Id be willing to bet, based on my experience, that Im right… but what the hell do I know? Maybe I AM in the minority?
Imagine though? A REAL answer from the players.
Such an easy answer. Do what makes your customers happy…
No matter if I like it or not…
Polls aren’t that bulletproof either. There are a lot of people that don’t participate or even know about them. Now one day they find out the new mechanic they grew to like isn’t there anymore.
And like I said, ot also needs to be balanced with the intetions, plans and vision of the devs.
Hi, it’s me, the guy with constructive input usually.
If you had asked me 3-4 days ago about Fatshark listening to customers, I would have had very different things to say.
However, given this information:
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Level 35 talents are back at level 30
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Amulet of Ashur is global to all characters
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Various changes reducing influence of stagger since 2.0.3
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I saw the first example this morning of a community post from the beta, to my knowledge, directly resulting in a gameplay mechanic change reflecting the suggestion itself, according to a developer that says it’s scheduled for a future release: Just reward (Bounty Hunter's lvl 30 talent) needs a reconsiderstion (as a side note, don’t scare off a dev by spamming him just because I linked his post in a positive way)
Given this information, I am able to at least give Fatshark the benefit of the doubt that they are listening to customers, but their exact process is not too transparent. Once you release something and have significant dev/design time around a feature, it’s hard to justify throwing that work away outright. Especially imagine from the dev perspective “oh yeah they hate everything, just chuck it and rollback everything”. That’s very demoralizing for a dev. It’s demoralizing if it was their idea and it’s demoralizing if it wasn’t their idea, but they were the one assigned to implement it. It sucks having features pulled from the live environment because people hate them.
So far, they want a compromise solution to stagger that will hopefully make everyone happy, but it takes time to find that balance.
To be honest, I think the big 2.0 release should have been broken up into smaller releases. It would’ve allowed more directed feedback to the individual issues: Cataclysm, stagger, Beastmen, talents, weapon changes, and Weaves. Individually, the problems with each of these things are not too bad, but they snowballed into this mess where suddenly everyone hates different things in 2.0 and everything feels like it’s on fire, so everyone is fixing something in house.
If it was something like:
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Stagger = 1.7 patch ~ maybe late April or early May
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Cataclysm (free update tbh, feels weird to pay for a difficulty) = 1.8 patch ~ mid-July, maybe accompanied with the betas for new stuff as a separate thing
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Talents/weapons = 1.9 patch ~ based on feedback driven from beta above
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Winds of Magic (Beastmen + Weaves) = 2.0 patch ~ based on feedback driven from beta, given more time to fix WoM-specific stuff instead of just the talent reworks and weapon changes.
I think the changes would have been more well-received and they could actually observe player numbers and feedback directed at each individual things, as opposed to “oh god people are just angry about everything and frothing at the mouth”. It also would’ve just been nice to have an update thrown in every now and then to show “hey we’re working on stuff, try out some changes”.
The jump from 1.6 to 2.0 was jarring for a lot of players.