Yep, they nerfed Cata from what it was on Beta.
This game is about farming and improving as you do so. If they didn’t make it difficult it would become boring after a short amount of time.
People seem to be expecting to play on the hardest difficulties without putting time into getting better. That’s not how the last game worked and shouldn’t be how this one works. A game based on skill should reward skill.
The problem people have isn’t that it’s “hard”, per se. It’s that the difficulty of levels we already had was altered into a sluggish, frustrating state that was incredibly inconsistent and unfair. In fact, Legend now gives me vibes about how this game was on release…
If they had just added a new difficulty above it, Cataclysm, that was harder…we’d most likely consider it a good move and a welcome one. They took something we enjoyed, was fairly challenging, and were used to…and effed with it for some confusing reason.
If the idea is “farming and improving as you do so” then all the people who were farming on Legend now have to either suffer through more and more loss screens because of the unfair, unfun gameplay experience now…or toddle back down to Champion where they won’t get the rewards they were looking for originally and will breeze through without a care in the world. Legend should be where the higher skill tier farms…it shouldn’t be a frustrating exercise that just drives people away when before the update they could farm it, improve, and have fun doing it.
I don’t understand what’s unfair about it. It’s still completely doable, you just need to play at the difficulty relevant to you.
Legend before became so easy, you could pretty much all run off alone, and some careers would almost solo the entire run. On top of that the reward of reds just became nothing, because of how easy Legend was. It was so easy that it became boring, and getting the highest quality items from that made the carrot too easy to get. They’ve just made it how Nightmare felt on the old game.
There’s nothing wrong with playing on the difficulty that works for you. This game has a learning curve, and unlike before, it’s now rewarding to see it through.
It’s the weird effect almost every game is having now where they make the hardest difficulty easy enough for people who shouldn’t be on it to keep them happy. You should be happy to improve and earn the gear rather than being given it in a less difficult version of the game.
Not keeping your word counts?
Funny you say that, I played Horn of Magnus in VT1 this week and it felt like 1.6 champion difficulty. Heck, there were fewer hordes in that particular run.
That’s irrelevant to fairness.
It feels like Nightmare to me. Doable, but still difficult. A good stepping stone to Cataclysm which requires you to start using team play and learning maps. I don’t see a problem with it.
The difference is that V2 is faster paced, but you now have more tools to deal with harder situations.
Such an unfair thing to say. It’s as if you don’t care how many people will lose what they had as long as you get what you want.
Maybe you should take off nostalgia glasses then.
Maybe then you’ll see that taking something away against their will that was promised to people is quite akin to thievery. Which is quite shunned thing to do and viewed as morally reprehensible.
What they had being? A difficulty they can still do with nothing stopping them? Noone lost anything. Stop with your vague moral high horsing.
I’m sure they just took into account most of the people talking about how easy Legend was, and how it made the frontline tanky classes irrelevant, or made tankier classes that could walk off solo go and do just that for the entire game. Teamplay didn’t exist beyond calling for books, and the very odd difficulty spike or deeds.
The nerfs to most classes and temp HP have slowly restored a sense of difficulty and less Ult/range/left click spamming into Hordes while off solo.
It’s supposed to be a team game, and the playstyle on Legend pre-WoM wasn’t that. It was people globalling Hordes and roamers.
The fact that they decided on a different route during development doesn’t seem unfair to me. It made the game feel more rewarding. The top tier gear shouldn’t be freely available to people who aren’t willing to face a challenge. It just leaves no rewards for the people who are. And if you’re going to have a higher difficulty than Legend, you need the rewards to feel more meaningful.
An enjoyable fun game they bought.
Yes, because there’s equivalent of 1.6 legend in current stage of the game. /s
Not as long as FS doesn’t keep their word and there are defenders of such inaction.
All these points are irrelevant, that’s why people claiming “Legend is easy” got Cataclysm. They are welcome to it, even though I already am hearing their dissatisfaction with it being “easy”, but hey, DWONS is there for your “challenge” needs. Rewards? Having a hard game is rewarding in itself isn’t it?
Because it benefited your needs. And what about people who found old Legend just right difficulty that they needed to actually put in work to beat legend? Screw them?
And don’t give me BS that they should go play champion. Why don’t you go play Cata and leave Legend for Legend players?
I disagree. Your “top tier” gear should be a baseline on which challenge should be given. Skins? Sure. But gear quality should be accessible by any pleb from newb recruit to DWONS veteran.
Pfffff, hahahaha. “Bask at my greatness, noob, for an elite player is gracing you with his divine presence!”
So the crux of the issue is that people, that you view as not “good enough”, were getting the rewards and “devaluing” the significance of that rewards for “good enough” people.
My points still stand.
And why does their perceived mistake in your eyes mean you need to accuse me of saying something unfair when pointing out the irrelevance to fairness that this point has?:
“Not keeping your word counts?”
No, they’re HIGHLY relevant to the choice they have made. If Legend was the same as before, it wouldn’t represent the eventual playstyle of Cata, which it should. The pre-WoM playstyle of Legend was almost solo play because of the lack of difficulty. Now Legend feels like a logical step towards Cata and will prepare people for it.
The teamplay element was severely lacking in Legend, and as I said before, this made tanking roles pretty much useless. The game now promotes more teamplay via positioning and map knowledge, as well as, communication.
As a huge example of my point, look at the people saying they have over a thousand hours played and are now struggling because of the difficulty increase in Legend. This tells us that the playstyle of Legend before was teaching people bad habits and incorrect playstyles, which has led to them misunderstanding how the teamplay in this game works.
You’re supposed to be grouped, assisting each other, taking roles, having someone frontline, etc. You’re not supposed to spam split up and try to solo the game.
My experience on the beta was similar. People tried to run around solo, ignoring Ironbreakers and not grouping when Hordes/Ambushes began.
This was not the playstyle of V1 where teamplay on higher difficulties was very important. The difference being that in V1 you wanted bunker points rather than partially blocked areas you can push out of if necessary in V2.
They also had an issue of a stick without a carrot. Legend was easy enough that reds were too easy to get, and so there was no endgame rewards to aim for. They went from too rare to too common. Now they’re only gated by skill. which they should be. This promotes a longer motivated time investment, which couldn’t be said before.
There’s a difference between accessibility and straight up giving you the items. Aiming for items that don’t effect gameplay in the least is a shallow reward, especially considering that they may add a cosmetic store, where the cosmetics being sold may be better looking than the ones you’re potentially farming.
Way to completely misrepresent or misunderstand my point.
This is mostly why I support legend as it is now, otherwise the skill gap between legend and cata would feel like something from going from legend > DWONS without a step in between. (For context, I’ve done this jump–felt kinda terrible in retrospect because I didn’t have the Onslaught skill-building in between. 0/10 do not recommend, is frustrating and soul-crushing).
As someone who has next to nothing gear-wise on live due to most of my time playing in modded, I will say how hard reds are to get can be somewhat frustrating (though they aren’t inherently needed, I realize), and why I support maybe raising the red drop rate up a tick Champ > Legend levels so there is still some end-game motivation and then people can focus on skill development.
This argument isn’t made because I’m sitting here going “git gud,” it’s because I feel the playerbase, as a whole, can benefit from learning group play and refining their own skills, as this game has quite the high skill ceiling (if not infinite). Vermintide suffers from lack of end game content as there are only but so many maps (even if they add more), so replayability comes from a) loot, or b) self-betterment (and further, doing so in groups, or friends, or whatever floats your boat).
There are, of course, concerns about people disabling the DLC so they can play without beastmen, and that the bugs hinder gameplay, and these should be addressed; but personally I feel the difficulty scaling as it stands, feels fluid and intuitive if Cata is a goal for players. If it is not; and Champion is too easy a game before going up to legend, then those difficulties should be examined as well.
I think the main culprit of the disaster of the reception of WoM is the fact they blatantly ignored, for example, the Jsat’s survey.
They put their effort in forcing a premade-centric approach when PuGs is a very important share of the game experience.
Most people overrate developers thinking they are scientific people who collect data and use them. I think many of the developers are so overconfindent in their creativity they forget that they are also professional and they should really care about their customers.
Even Leonardo or Michelangelo were commissioned to do their artworks so they had to listen their patrons.
The most important evidence of this distorted vision is the infamous quote: “we don’t serve people based on what they want, we serve people based on what they need”
This is a very arrogant and insulting statement because it’s an argument with the customers about their own tastes, dismissing their feelings and telling them "We know you better than yourself " .
This is a behaviour which is suicidal in business and in public relations.
In the while the steam reviews for WoM are at 30% positive which is a complete debacle.
They should start to roll out patches and hotfixes, correcting bugs and they should nerf the beastmen , at least as a bandaid fix, ASAP.
I think that Legend should be divided from Cataclysm (in fact, when you choose the difficoulty, Cataclysm is seperated from the others).
We don’t demand another 1.6; it’s enough an half way. Legend should be still hard, but a strong and expert player should have a good win ratio also in QP. Currently, without a premade, can’t be any progression. You are forced to farm dust on Recruit (ridicolous) or play a totally boring Champion.
An endegame player has lost his spot.
I feel like people are exaggerating 2.0 difficulty a lot (apart from bugs and specials). Since I got used to the changes I have found solo legend to be stupidly easy on most every map, even more so than 1.6 legend. I can do it blindfolded if I do a no book run. Easier than champion QP. Beastmen get a lot of cheap shots in, but still not much of a problem (other than on Omens when banners start stacking). Certain finales are definitely tough, and most specials seem to be twins.
Haven’t had a lot of time to play since 2.0, so I just now did all boss maps solo to unlock cata. Only part that was slightly difficult was Rasknit since bots like the taste of gatling bullets. Haven’t been able to do a solo cata game yet, need more practice. I normally run as BH (being a special sniper is key when running with bots) with IB, merc, and WS, but might need to find something better for cata.
The entire theory that the playerbase needs to learn new tactics to fight the tougher difficulty falls completely flat - and is actually fairly condescending - when;
A) People have already spent hundreds of hours getting their skill to a point they could do Legend in 1.6. All of that time is now disregarded and pointless. Why bother going through that again? People either can’t or won’t dedicate the time to get better - or they have hit their skill ceiling anyhow so those players are now doomed to a horrible experience or drop to a lower difficulty that offers virtually no tangible rewards -either in challenge or in-game loot.
B) The move from Champion to Legend is now utterly horrifying and completely soul destroying for most players looking to make that jump. It is seriously punishing for players who can do full book runs in Champ to get completely flattened in minutes in Legend. When they do finally get the fourth attempt to the finale of Righteous stand and get completely f*cked over they ragequit. Completely understandable.
C) Who’s going to teach or carry these new players through their first crushing games in Legend? Are YOU going to go back and spend a frustrating evening of failure trying to drag the playerbase up to Legend standard? Should you have to? Thrashing someone with a harsh-difficulty-stick only teaches them to turn their back.
D) Everything worth having is gained in Legend. This is why people want to be there. Give a load of cosmetic rewards at Champion and some of this problem would go away.
People are enjoying the new version of the game (not many considering the review bombing) and people are completing the highest difficulty.
The greatest complaint across all difficulties I see, and hear in game, is that it’s just not fun. Even people who complete CATA successful runs involving shield-slam and Push-Stab to victory are not much fun.
Some people think that having intimate relations with yourself while wearing a sandpaper glove is fun, and although that might be ok for them, it certainly isn’t representative of the majority of people.
The majority of players, via BETA responses, Steam Reviews of WoM&VT2, on Reddit and on these Fora are not very positive about the whole thing and they’re the ones most engaged. It’s just not much fun for many reasons for many people.
How hard is it for people to get their head around?
You’d be surprised. I entered beta WoM on a controller, and then went from ground zero with no mouse and keyboard skills and had people facedrag me through various difficulties because I had no clue how PC mode of input worked. The community (on Twitch and Discord, at least), pretty much banded together to help me get Cata ready and offered me advice upon advice upon advice. I specifically remember people watching me tank damage in the tutorial offering me tips to make things less painful.
I would not underestimate the power of this community on helping those who are struggling. The resources and people are absolutely there for those who want them and reach out.
That being said, if the move to Champion to Legend is soul destroying, that means Recruit > Vet > Champ needs to be looked at, not that Legend needs to be adjusted, because then Legend > Cata will feel like Champ > Legend. I’m envious of newer players who started on 2.0 and have no habits/play to unlearn. It takes time, but isn’t undoable.
It’s important to note that people kneejerk to change, and it’s always more impactful/fun to leave negative reviews versus positive ones (ergo, the human brain remembers negative scenarios more than positive ones as a self-protection measure). This happened during 1.3 breaking ranged meta as well.
Why bother going through that again? People either can’t or won’t dedicate the time to get better - or they have hit their skill ceiling anyhow so those players are now doomed to a horrible experience or drop to a lower difficulty that offers virtually no tangible rewards -either in challenge or in-game loot.
Because that’s what self-improvement is about. A question, that people on my home platform (PS4) have considered because we’re still on 1.6. What do you play for when you have all the loot? All the skins? All the paintings? People have berated Fatshark in the past for not having endgame content, and yet, here we are with Cata, where there’s a new goal to acheive. Further, Fatshark has mentioned that Legend is the endgame and Cata is the challenge difficulty.
I don’t think anyone is trying to be condescending when they say 2.0 needs some adaption if you have a large number of hours in 1.6 (at least I’m not and certainly hope no one else is!), just stating the tactics are slightly different. Nothing inherently bad or good or about that. Just different.
So you can bring further insight into your perspective, as it is different than mine, what does endgame look like for you?
D) Everything worth having is gained in Legend. This is why people want to be there. Give a load of cosmetic rewards at Champion and some of this problem would go away.
Yes, agreed. There does need to be some reward for the lower tiers to help foster motivation.
Disclaimer: Shouldn’t have to put this, but this isn’t a dig at anyone saying “lol you’re so bad at the game!” Far from it! Just me framing my viewpoint and asking for clarification on yours.
The way the internet works is it tends to slant towards the negative rather than the positive, as that’s always the more fun to read/write about.
Well, as you say Legend is the end-game, hence people getting thoroughly annoyed that through changes to difficulty they are excluded from the end game because they simply can’t make it further than the first horde without someone getting downed. CATA is paywalled and having something even more brutal is absolutely not any kind of end game content for me, and it is tailored for those who already found DWONS not challenging enough. CAT is only new content for those it is specifically designed for - elite players.
The end game, for me is about being able to use different builds within the difficulty I am comfortable with while enjoying some new skins/frames/weapons/titles for my time. I don’t want to have to better myself to overcome a whole new level of difficulty when I was having a huge amount of fun as it was. There needs to be some reason to keep coming back and that used to be the combat that was just good fun. In Legend it’s just a slog through treacle now running with bots. It’s bloody awful in QP and there is no hope for anyone who isn’t hugely invested in this game to receive any kind of help in QP.
In VT1 there was the contract board with a more guaranteed method of getting the red you wanted at ANY difficulty. Have some little buffs for your time too. That kept me coming back.
You’d be surprised.
I’m not surprised that the target market for the whole thing as described in the Blog Post - a handful of elite players - are pulling together to enjoy the content designed for them.
What about the vast majority of players who aren’t on Discord and don’t want to get involved in any of that in depth nonsense? Or can’t ?Or just see it as a pastime and don’t want the massive investment now expected? People play games for entertainment and when the only target for the games latest patch is those who find their entertainment in harder and harder challenges you ostracize those want to play something to relax, and have fun. Surely 60%+ of players should be in Legend and able to achieve some of the stuff to get frames?
If you want the extra difficulty then good for you - but we’ve ALL got increased difficulty, and the expectations are miles outside of what most people are prepared to invest in a game.
Go back to Champion is the answer I suppose and not see the end-game content(Legend), don’t get any event frames, have a 4% chance of a glowy weapon, probably cruise through it bored.
When people go bowling for entertainment they often aren’t looking to find ways to push themselves and excel at it. They just turn up at the bowling alley to have a good time, relax and play bowling - in fact often those who make it hyper-competitive are ridiculed for ruining the feeling of the evening for everyone else.
In VT2 that chilled out feeling of doing something together with others online to relax and have a bit of fun is gone.
Is this a joke?
Secondly. End game? What is L4D2’s endgame.
Oh
That’s right
Fun.
Over a thousand hours and I just got my second pickaxe. I still don’t have the hat I want. And if I want to avoid rerolling hell for trying out new builds I need to maintain my copies of charms, necklaces, and weapons. Because our just absolutely stellar equipment system is the most fun the least amount of time you have to spend engaing in it.
I’ll say that again. 1k for 2 (TWO) red pickaxes.
Didn’t require a time investment they say! 
So create two difficulties 
Actually increase the rewards for them as well
I can think of 100 alternatives than mucking up the established game feel and you can too.
It’s not as if Recruit teaches you crap all for Veteran. Or veteran into champ. Or champ into Legend. And if we’re going to be clear, You don’t learn crap all from Legend into Cata either. Besides how to use the specific builds that FS wants you to use and special exposure mitigation techniques that were already useful but are now mandatory because Gutter Runners have inconsistent as hell jumping speeds again.
My word.
Lastly
You think this took skill?
I have hundreds of these things at this point. I started making them just as soon as somebody responded to my “my win percentage is back to where it was no matter what room I join and I still dislike the changes” with a git gud.
Sure there was a learning curve with throwing axes! Because of that god awful delay, the relative level of skill necessary to hit max range blight stormers and tokyo drifting hookrats required a fundamental change in mentality “hey this accuracy impact is kind of awful, play awful to fix it!”
Oh, don’t get me wrong! Actually playing around these awful talents did take a bit of a learning curve because it’s basically a whole bunch of crap you’re not allowed to do
Edit: And no I’m not going to 2h QQ
And my absolute personal favorite!
Naturally these rules change slightly in cata. Due to the threat of banners surrounded by cata damage beastmen
But…
Conforming to attacking like a monkey nonstop forever because that’s how they’ve designed these new traits and this stupid crappy awful passive
and actively seperating myself from my allies so I don’t take running attacks meant for them? That’s skill?
I have to play the most selfish I’ve ever played in this game just to guarantee my near 100% QP winrate. You think that’s healthy? You think this (which by the by, none of those downs were me) was healthy? I’m sure nobody enjoys these games. But I sure as hell bet nobody enjoys losing either.
Back in pre 2.0 days
I’d play anything and field anything under the sun. Yes even pre 1.3. I’ve taken dual 1h hammers, dual 1h axes (because why not), 2 x Axe x 2, etc etc because the game didn’t have this crappy as hell damage tax that seems to be involved in everything.
When they changed temp health it massively improved the game. For melee that is but, the temp health on top of the dodge changes were too much, and I said as much. And in this 2.0 they didn’t change that that much. Chaos patrols are now complete jokes. Storm patrols are now complete jokes. Beast patrols are less dangerous than actual entire Beast hordes and are complete jokes. Elites that aren’t berserkers are complete jokes.
What kind of game is this?
The changes brought on by 2.0 in my opinion for cata and cata alone are nice and all. I like cata in the few times I’m able to actively engage in it. But for the rest of the game?
They changed way too much under the philosophy that the punishment for not playing in an arbitrary way is to get hit. And the only dial they used to change this complete mess was how dangerous hordes are.
The real zinger of any of this is
There are plenty of ways you could have changed this game besides just throwing numbers up
A complete rework to elite AI for one such that they have different attacks with distinguishable windups that require different dodge directions to avoid.
In this way when there are more than a few of them, it’s scary because you have to do these dances in sequence and likely to the threat of hordes or specials.
Changing approach angles for hordes such that back to back coverage of the entire team becomes more important than ever to avoid getting poked and introducing a more consistent stream of elites to make both clearing and armor penetrating important
In this way you can mitigate some of the frustration of just spamming specials nonstop by introducing controlled aggresion factors like the approach of elites who will suddenly tune your cleaving down
Tuning up the health of elites and introducing a system of poise for them so that all weapons can stun them but so you can’t do something stupid like stagger an entire chaos patrol with one Sienna with a flag staff or knockarounds Stormvermin that have sneaked into a horde endlessly.
Faster weapons can now stun bigger targets without crits, elites are more dangerous because they only take light interruption at best, and teamwork is more essential because multiple allies on one elite speeds up both it’s incoming stagger and the speed of it falling. Obviously making exceptions for crits
Oh and while I’m at it:
Speaking of. The stagger changes are good. But only for bosses. Being able to throw a single axe at a chaos warrior, or crit him once and just see him ragdolling into the air from 2 bonks is ridiculous. In no universe should Chaos Warriors be as much of a joke as they are right now.
For bosses the changes are great!
Pre 2.0, fighting a roger or a stormfiend or a Spawn and you’ve got it in an AI loop and then here comes some Pyro stunning the damn thing and forcing it’s aggro on them, which they can’t take. Now stuns are great! Bosses explode fast as hell with fast enough teamwork and exploitation of the new system. So credit where credit is due.
And bam. Without even touching the core game feel you’ve increased difficulty, increased the requirements of teamwork, made players more wary because they need each other to guard each others back.
So what’s my biggest problem?
Well aside from these changes being shoved universally down my throat and absolutely stonewalling player freedom and expression through build diversity. Besides enemies just getting free hits depending on their attacks or if they just fabricate into thin air behind you and bonk you. More than the awful talent changes.
I’ve touched on this before! But let’s talk about
So the other day I did expert. A smoker grabs my friend, I get jumped on by a jockey, and a charger barrels onto the scene. Hey different specials coordinating their attacks on different people! That’s awesome!
Go back to VT2. Boot up some Legend because I’m going to have to remain sharp if I want to keep making points on how counterintuitive these new designs are when applied to Legend gamefeel (they’re great on cata)
And a hookrat grabs a Kruber, a gutterrunner jumps at that same kruber and misses, and another one does that stupid run thing towards Kruber when it’s tracking is broken in the middle of it’s pounce. I axe the hookrat almost immedieatly because I work on the assumption that my allies will ALWAYS be hooked now, the hookrat drops, and both pounce at him again.
What
The hell
Is this?
So as opposed to interesting designs where you have pounces on two different targets. There exists targeting in this AI where two things will try for the same person? THis isn’t strategical and it isn’t fun. It screws over one person and likely makes him frustrated. Whoever adjusted the AI for these combinations should feel ashamed of themselves.
A mouth full. But skill? Yeah right.
Healthy? I very much doubt that. (except on Cata. Cata is great)
The game needed to be harder. I wanted another difficulty for a long time. And they certainly gave that. But then they introduced a whole lot of baggage that I absolutely loathe and broke the game again with all of these crappy bugs.
What a laugh.
Oh and for those who skipped to the bottom.
P.S: That waystalker walked into the room past the warehouse and immediately dropped dead on the spot. I haven’t seen that bug since the beta! Bravo!
And let me edit this in. You’re not wrong in liking the changes. Just as much as I’m not wrong in disliking them. We have two very different ideas on what the game should have ended up as and you just happened to be on the same page as FS. I voice my dissatisfaction out of frustration and absolutely nothing else. So don’t feel inclined to feel otherwise. Through either a blindness of obstinance or just a difference of opinions I could very well be wrong.
Then they learn the same way I started (and many still play this way). My first 300 hours in this game were with bots. By myself. I was so scared of pubs and failure I just played with no one. Then I stuck my toe in QP, failed hard, learned from that, started learning pub strats. From those pubs, I found people who I meshed with, others who taught me, still others who never said I word but stuck by me anyways. I didn’t become hugely involved with the community until much, much later. (Personally, though, I think the community is what makes me stay, however. 
) I met some really, ultra-talented people who just learned through QP and are are just smashing 2.0. The community helps, but isn’t 100% necessary.
When 2.0 first released, I raged really hard at it. So hard I just left the game for five days, screamed “this is impossible, why am I so bad at this???” then got mad I gave up, came back; kept trying. Sometimes legend is still a struggle, but most if it comes from me not expecting events to be as amped up as they are, and then I go, “huh, let me figure that out again” and try again. 1.6 my duo partner and I were easily clearing Righteous. Recently, we tried true duos again and were like “huh what?” But then we decided we’d try something different, and we’ll see how it goes the next time with the new strat.
I am not wholly convinced Cata is made for the elite. It’s made for someone who is “newly and freshly progressed in legend to feel challenged and defeated in.”
Way, WAY early on in beta, there were quite a number of high level players for Cata to be the next DWONS. The threads are archived now, but I staunchly refused against that. Cata sits somewhere slightly more on the Onslaught side than the DWONS side, and the difficulty really comes from THP taking a nerf, imho, plus increased special slots. High weaves are made for the people you are blaming, but not Cata. If these people had their way, Cata would be like DWONS with no in between. This is where I disagree with them (and where Fatshark did as well, apparently, because they further tweaked it from beta, and then further in release to bring it to where it is now). I quite remember butting heads with a number of them saying, “Jumps need to be intuitive–you can’t just go from legend > DWONS levels without an in between.” Legend is that in between from Cata. After Cata is modded, which means if Champion is a snoozefest it either a) needs to be the new farming difficulty for better rewards, or b) Fatshark needs to implement better player onboarding to get players adjusted.
I agree, however, as I mentioned before, loot fixes need to happen in order for people to feel like they’re not stonewalling. I don’t see why difficulties like Champion can’t be farmable in the same way 1.6 Legend was. Or further, better explanation of how things have changed, how they work; giving players better prep. The answer has never been “go back to champion” and I’d never advocate for that if it makes someone feel defeated, but why do things need further brought down when other games exist that are hard skill-wise? Why not this one?
It’s clear this is a topic I probably won’t see eye-to-eye on with a bunch of people, so this will probably be my last reply.
Was pretty much the same for me. I still mostly play with bots.
I would like to see legend difficulty taken up a tad so that it is a less drastic step to cata, and champ chests loot upped a bit. Like a red chance of %4 for general and %8 for emperor or more, and up legend red chance a bit. Cata seems like it should give one guaranteed red, because by the time you get to that level you will probably have most of the reds anyway.
I just hope bugs, beastmen, and certain finales get fixed soon. Then I’ll be a happy camper.
Not everyone feels this way. A lot of people, my friends included, will get one set of reds and be happy with it. I’ve farmed almost every gear combination I can think of.
This way they can avoid adding a new tier of rarity as a reward, because there’s less of a chance to get reds. In the last game I had one and it was useless, but I was still happy that I had it. In this game they may as well be blues or greens.
Some people will play this for hours, some will just get to their perception of completion, the new system will motivate those people to play for longer.
Relevant to anything I’ve said how? If they need balance changes, that’s a different thread.
Then you’re causing them to die. The scorecards you see where the melee frontline DPS has high damage and most of the ranged have low is because the frontline is playing solo for the entire match usually.
Imagine being that WS in your scorecard and having most of your potential damage be ranged, but there’s a Beastman horde with Elites in front of you. Oh, and your Slayer is off throwing axes at stuff solo.
Just because you can survive alone and do damage because of your class doesn’t mean every class is built that way.
Also that comp, if you’re not running any 2h is just 4 pure DPS. It’s no wonder your damage looks like that and you’re able to run off alone. I’m going to go ahead and guess the Saltz, Sienna and Keri all spent the entire match kiting down hordes while they were alive.
This is rare for our group. We just have someone run a proper tanky frontline, and spend almost the entire match within 10ft of eachother.
We stand in front of ranged classes and have melee dps classes float around us, so they’re safe while killing.
This seems like your problem, and as I pointed out before, all of your scorecards are pretty much confirming that you’re causing your party to come under too much pressure. When I play we just group up and do fine. If a Slayer joined and ran off solo, we would just kick him.
Legend had to reflect Cataclysm and not give a false representation. It makes no sense whatsoever to have each difficulty with a completely different playstyle. Your post pretty much confirms why that’s true. Your playstyle isn’t team oriented and is causing more damage and under pressure gameplay for your teammates. This is what old Legend was like. You just run around solo as Slayer/Zealot soloing the game and other people get to kill one thing a match.
The game does take more skill now. It takes more skill to time dodges, more teamplay skill. more map knowledge, more positioning skill. Whereas before you could go around solo, and do whatever you wanted. I played Slayer and could run ahead killing everything before my team even reached the area.
I’m not unhappy with most of the changes. In my eyes the only thing that needs a little attention is temp health, because some classes are struggling to generate any. Those with less tanky mechanics should have higher generation.
And in closing:
Give it a rest. 
