NEW Topic - CONTINUED discussion - Fatshark needs to LISTEN to customers

Well, as you say Legend is the end-game, hence people getting thoroughly annoyed that through changes to difficulty they are excluded from the end game because they simply can’t make it further than the first horde without someone getting downed. CATA is paywalled and having something even more brutal is absolutely not any kind of end game content for me, and it is tailored for those who already found DWONS not challenging enough. CAT is only new content for those it is specifically designed for - elite players.

The end game, for me is about being able to use different builds within the difficulty I am comfortable with while enjoying some new skins/frames/weapons/titles for my time. I don’t want to have to better myself to overcome a whole new level of difficulty when I was having a huge amount of fun as it was. There needs to be some reason to keep coming back and that used to be the combat that was just good fun. In Legend it’s just a slog through treacle now running with bots. It’s bloody awful in QP and there is no hope for anyone who isn’t hugely invested in this game to receive any kind of help in QP.

In VT1 there was the contract board with a more guaranteed method of getting the red you wanted at ANY difficulty. Have some little buffs for your time too. That kept me coming back.

You’d be surprised.

I’m not surprised that the target market for the whole thing as described in the Blog Post - a handful of elite players - are pulling together to enjoy the content designed for them.

What about the vast majority of players who aren’t on Discord and don’t want to get involved in any of that in depth nonsense? Or can’t ?Or just see it as a pastime and don’t want the massive investment now expected? People play games for entertainment and when the only target for the games latest patch is those who find their entertainment in harder and harder challenges you ostracize those want to play something to relax, and have fun. Surely 60%+ of players should be in Legend and able to achieve some of the stuff to get frames?

If you want the extra difficulty then good for you - but we’ve ALL got increased difficulty, and the expectations are miles outside of what most people are prepared to invest in a game.

Go back to Champion is the answer I suppose and not see the end-game content(Legend), don’t get any event frames, have a 4% chance of a glowy weapon, probably cruise through it bored.

When people go bowling for entertainment they often aren’t looking to find ways to push themselves and excel at it. They just turn up at the bowling alley to have a good time, relax and play bowling - in fact often those who make it hyper-competitive are ridiculed for ruining the feeling of the evening for everyone else.

In VT2 that chilled out feeling of doing something together with others online to relax and have a bit of fun is gone.


Is this a joke?

Secondly. End game? What is L4D2’s endgame.
That’s right

Over a thousand hours and I just got my second pickaxe. I still don’t have the hat I want. And if I want to avoid rerolling hell for trying out new builds I need to maintain my copies of charms, necklaces, and weapons. Because our just absolutely stellar equipment system is the most fun the least amount of time you have to spend engaing in it.

I’ll say that again. 1k for 2 (TWO) red pickaxes.
Didn’t require a time investment they say! :joy:

So create two difficulties :stuck_out_tongue:
Actually increase the rewards for them as well

I can think of 100 alternatives than mucking up the established game feel and you can too.


It’s not as if Recruit teaches you crap all for Veteran. Or veteran into champ. Or champ into Legend. And if we’re going to be clear, You don’t learn crap all from Legend into Cata either. Besides how to use the specific builds that FS wants you to use and special exposure mitigation techniques that were already useful but are now mandatory because Gutter Runners have inconsistent as hell jumping speeds again.

My word.


You think this took skill?

I have hundreds of these things at this point. I started making them just as soon as somebody responded to my “my win percentage is back to where it was no matter what room I join and I still dislike the changes” with a git gud.
Sure there was a learning curve with throwing axes! Because of that god awful delay, the relative level of skill necessary to hit max range blight stormers and tokyo drifting hookrats required a fundamental change in mentality “hey this accuracy impact is kind of awful, play awful to fix it!”
Oh, don’t get me wrong! Actually playing around these awful talents did take a bit of a learning curve because it’s basically a whole bunch of crap you’re not allowed to do
Edit: And no I’m not going to 2h QQ

  • Don’t fight side by side to allies because hits they dodge are hits you take
  • Assume they’ll get jumped, leeched, hooked, or stormed and adjust your strategy
  • Always take all specials and elites, you need the temp hp more than they do even if they’re dying
  • Dodging is inconsistent in hordes and therefore should be minimized to a certainty
  • Elites are jokes no matter the group or competition, rush ahead to take them
  • Grimnir’s Focus is inconsistent and therefore has to be completely gained around. Delay your swings to ensure your DR
  • Hits are guaranteed at least at some point in the relative majority of your encounters, ignore them
  • Revive allies because they can be special fodder

And my absolute personal favorite!

  • Take a hit before you swap to throwing axes as your DR doesn’t apply to them while Barkskin does.

Naturally these rules change slightly in cata. Due to the threat of banners surrounded by cata damage beastmen


Conforming to attacking like a monkey nonstop forever because that’s how they’ve designed these new traits and this stupid crappy awful passive

and actively seperating myself from my allies so I don’t take running attacks meant for them? That’s skill?

I have to play the most selfish I’ve ever played in this game just to guarantee my near 100% QP winrate. You think that’s healthy? You think this (which by the by, none of those downs were me) was healthy? I’m sure nobody enjoys these games. But I sure as hell bet nobody enjoys losing either.

Back in pre 2.0 days
I’d play anything and field anything under the sun. Yes even pre 1.3. I’ve taken dual 1h hammers, dual 1h axes (because why not), 2 x Axe x 2, etc etc because the game didn’t have this crappy as hell damage tax that seems to be involved in everything.

When they changed temp health it massively improved the game. For melee that is but, the temp health on top of the dodge changes were too much, and I said as much. And in this 2.0 they didn’t change that that much. Chaos patrols are now complete jokes. Storm patrols are now complete jokes. Beast patrols are less dangerous than actual entire Beast hordes and are complete jokes. Elites that aren’t berserkers are complete jokes.

What kind of game is this?

  • Why are chaos warriors jokes
  • Why are elites jokes
  • Why does playing like a selfish ass give me guaranteed wins?
  • Why does every enemy still ice skate

The changes brought on by 2.0 in my opinion for cata and cata alone are nice and all. I like cata in the few times I’m able to actively engage in it. But for the rest of the game?

They changed way too much under the philosophy that the punishment for not playing in an arbitrary way is to get hit. And the only dial they used to change this complete mess was how dangerous hordes are.

The real zinger of any of this is
There are plenty of ways you could have changed this game besides just throwing numbers up

  • A complete rework to elite AI for one such that they have different attacks with distinguishable windups that require different dodge directions to avoid.
    In this way when there are more than a few of them, it’s scary because you have to do these dances in sequence and likely to the threat of hordes or specials.

  • Changing approach angles for hordes such that back to back coverage of the entire team becomes more important than ever to avoid getting poked and introducing a more consistent stream of elites to make both clearing and armor penetrating important
    In this way you can mitigate some of the frustration of just spamming specials nonstop by introducing controlled aggresion factors like the approach of elites who will suddenly tune your cleaving down

  • Tuning up the health of elites and introducing a system of poise for them so that all weapons can stun them but so you can’t do something stupid like stagger an entire chaos patrol with one Sienna with a flag staff or knockarounds Stormvermin that have sneaked into a horde endlessly.
    Faster weapons can now stun bigger targets without crits, elites are more dangerous because they only take light interruption at best, and teamwork is more essential because multiple allies on one elite speeds up both it’s incoming stagger and the speed of it falling. Obviously making exceptions for crits

Oh and while I’m at it:

  • Change temp on stagger to provide more temp when assisting targets that others are attacking. Change cleave to flat out not exist anymore, it’s awful. Change temp on kill to “contribution” on kill so that everybody gets something and nobody wants to hog any of it.
    And wallah. We’ve now created a system where you’re actively rewarded by fighting next to other people in the form of your own survivability

Speaking of. The stagger changes are good. But only for bosses. Being able to throw a single axe at a chaos warrior, or crit him once and just see him ragdolling into the air from 2 bonks is ridiculous. In no universe should Chaos Warriors be as much of a joke as they are right now.

For bosses the changes are great!
Pre 2.0, fighting a roger or a stormfiend or a Spawn and you’ve got it in an AI loop and then here comes some Pyro stunning the damn thing and forcing it’s aggro on them, which they can’t take. Now stuns are great! Bosses explode fast as hell with fast enough teamwork and exploitation of the new system. So credit where credit is due.

And bam. Without even touching the core game feel you’ve increased difficulty, increased the requirements of teamwork, made players more wary because they need each other to guard each others back.

So what’s my biggest problem?
Well aside from these changes being shoved universally down my throat and absolutely stonewalling player freedom and expression through build diversity. Besides enemies just getting free hits depending on their attacks or if they just fabricate into thin air behind you and bonk you. More than the awful talent changes.

I’ve touched on this before! But let’s talk about

Multi disabler combinations

So the other day I did expert. A smoker grabs my friend, I get jumped on by a jockey, and a charger barrels onto the scene. Hey different specials coordinating their attacks on different people! That’s awesome!
Go back to VT2. Boot up some Legend because I’m going to have to remain sharp if I want to keep making points on how counterintuitive these new designs are when applied to Legend gamefeel (they’re great on cata)
And a hookrat grabs a Kruber, a gutterrunner jumps at that same kruber and misses, and another one does that stupid run thing towards Kruber when it’s tracking is broken in the middle of it’s pounce. I axe the hookrat almost immedieatly because I work on the assumption that my allies will ALWAYS be hooked now, the hookrat drops, and both pounce at him again.

The hell
Is this?

So as opposed to interesting designs where you have pounces on two different targets. There exists targeting in this AI where two things will try for the same person? THis isn’t strategical and it isn’t fun. It screws over one person and likely makes him frustrated. Whoever adjusted the AI for these combinations should feel ashamed of themselves.

A mouth full. But skill? Yeah right.
Healthy? I very much doubt that. (except on Cata. Cata is great)

The game needed to be harder. I wanted another difficulty for a long time. And they certainly gave that. But then they introduced a whole lot of baggage that I absolutely loathe and broke the game again with all of these crappy bugs.

What a laugh.

Oh and for those who skipped to the bottom.
P.S: That waystalker walked into the room past the warehouse and immediately dropped dead on the spot. I haven’t seen that bug since the beta! Bravo!

And let me edit this in. You’re not wrong in liking the changes. Just as much as I’m not wrong in disliking them. We have two very different ideas on what the game should have ended up as and you just happened to be on the same page as FS. I voice my dissatisfaction out of frustration and absolutely nothing else. So don’t feel inclined to feel otherwise. Through either a blindness of obstinance or just a difference of opinions I could very well be wrong.


Then they learn the same way I started (and many still play this way). My first 300 hours in this game were with bots. By myself. I was so scared of pubs and failure I just played with no one. Then I stuck my toe in QP, failed hard, learned from that, started learning pub strats. From those pubs, I found people who I meshed with, others who taught me, still others who never said I word but stuck by me anyways. I didn’t become hugely involved with the community until much, much later. (Personally, though, I think the community is what makes me stay, however. :slight_smile: ) I met some really, ultra-talented people who just learned through QP and are are just smashing 2.0. The community helps, but isn’t 100% necessary.

When 2.0 first released, I raged really hard at it. So hard I just left the game for five days, screamed “this is impossible, why am I so bad at this???” then got mad I gave up, came back; kept trying. Sometimes legend is still a struggle, but most if it comes from me not expecting events to be as amped up as they are, and then I go, “huh, let me figure that out again” and try again. 1.6 my duo partner and I were easily clearing Righteous. Recently, we tried true duos again and were like “huh what?” But then we decided we’d try something different, and we’ll see how it goes the next time with the new strat.

I am not wholly convinced Cata is made for the elite. It’s made for someone who is “newly and freshly progressed in legend to feel challenged and defeated in.”

Way, WAY early on in beta, there were quite a number of high level players for Cata to be the next DWONS. The threads are archived now, but I staunchly refused against that. Cata sits somewhere slightly more on the Onslaught side than the DWONS side, and the difficulty really comes from THP taking a nerf, imho, plus increased special slots. High weaves are made for the people you are blaming, but not Cata. If these people had their way, Cata would be like DWONS with no in between. This is where I disagree with them (and where Fatshark did as well, apparently, because they further tweaked it from beta, and then further in release to bring it to where it is now). I quite remember butting heads with a number of them saying, “Jumps need to be intuitive–you can’t just go from legend > DWONS levels without an in between.” Legend is that in between from Cata. After Cata is modded, which means if Champion is a snoozefest it either a) needs to be the new farming difficulty for better rewards, or b) Fatshark needs to implement better player onboarding to get players adjusted.

I agree, however, as I mentioned before, loot fixes need to happen in order for people to feel like they’re not stonewalling. I don’t see why difficulties like Champion can’t be farmable in the same way 1.6 Legend was. Or further, better explanation of how things have changed, how they work; giving players better prep. The answer has never been “go back to champion” and I’d never advocate for that if it makes someone feel defeated, but why do things need further brought down when other games exist that are hard skill-wise? Why not this one?

It’s clear this is a topic I probably won’t see eye-to-eye on with a bunch of people, so this will probably be my last reply.


Was pretty much the same for me. I still mostly play with bots.

I would like to see legend difficulty taken up a tad so that it is a less drastic step to cata, and champ chests loot upped a bit. Like a red chance of %4 for general and %8 for emperor or more, and up legend red chance a bit. Cata seems like it should give one guaranteed red, because by the time you get to that level you will probably have most of the reds anyway.

I just hope bugs, beastmen, and certain finales get fixed soon. Then I’ll be a happy camper.

1 Like

Not everyone feels this way. A lot of people, my friends included, will get one set of reds and be happy with it. I’ve farmed almost every gear combination I can think of.

This way they can avoid adding a new tier of rarity as a reward, because there’s less of a chance to get reds. In the last game I had one and it was useless, but I was still happy that I had it. In this game they may as well be blues or greens.

Some people will play this for hours, some will just get to their perception of completion, the new system will motivate those people to play for longer.

Relevant to anything I’ve said how? If they need balance changes, that’s a different thread.

Then you’re causing them to die. The scorecards you see where the melee frontline DPS has high damage and most of the ranged have low is because the frontline is playing solo for the entire match usually.

Imagine being that WS in your scorecard and having most of your potential damage be ranged, but there’s a Beastman horde with Elites in front of you. Oh, and your Slayer is off throwing axes at stuff solo.

Just because you can survive alone and do damage because of your class doesn’t mean every class is built that way.

Also that comp, if you’re not running any 2h is just 4 pure DPS. It’s no wonder your damage looks like that and you’re able to run off alone. I’m going to go ahead and guess the Saltz, Sienna and Keri all spent the entire match kiting down hordes while they were alive.

This is rare for our group. We just have someone run a proper tanky frontline, and spend almost the entire match within 10ft of eachother.

We stand in front of ranged classes and have melee dps classes float around us, so they’re safe while killing.

This seems like your problem, and as I pointed out before, all of your scorecards are pretty much confirming that you’re causing your party to come under too much pressure. When I play we just group up and do fine. If a Slayer joined and ran off solo, we would just kick him.

Legend had to reflect Cataclysm and not give a false representation. It makes no sense whatsoever to have each difficulty with a completely different playstyle. Your post pretty much confirms why that’s true. Your playstyle isn’t team oriented and is causing more damage and under pressure gameplay for your teammates. This is what old Legend was like. You just run around solo as Slayer/Zealot soloing the game and other people get to kill one thing a match.

The game does take more skill now. It takes more skill to time dodges, more teamplay skill. more map knowledge, more positioning skill. Whereas before you could go around solo, and do whatever you wanted. I played Slayer and could run ahead killing everything before my team even reached the area.

I’m not unhappy with most of the changes. In my eyes the only thing that needs a little attention is temp health, because some classes are struggling to generate any. Those with less tanky mechanics should have higher generation.

And in closing:

Give it a rest. :rat:

1 Like

Why? Because your enjoyment is only one that is important?

Yes, because them going back on their word, due to malice or incompetence, and you defending their actions and new state of the game are totally separate points. Not relevant to each other at all! /s

And that telling lies to your customers is somehow fair and totally ok to do.

I don’t believe they made a “choice”. And until they make a new statement, that they intentionally wanted to change and alienate part of the playerbase for benefit of another part of the playerbase, the only official intent of FS is to keep the difficulties as close as possible to pre WoM.
Until then your point that Legend difficulty increase is intentional rather than a poor job by FS is not true.

Yeah, I don’t care. For multiple reasons:
1)It requires all 4 people own WoM to play it.
2)As long as it’s called after highest official V1 difficulty it has no place being V2 difficulty.
3)The clear pandering to V1 veterans should go even further and make Cata feel like entirely different game - reduce the spawns, make them as beefy as Beta 1 numbers.
4)Tribuchests will always be superior loot engines to Catavaults.

No. Nightmare difficulty should.

We clearly haven’t played the same game. Outside of FK, who to quite of few was underpowered and didn’t offer that much to the team as others, since damage negation wasn’t as relevant compared to good crowd control and tankiness, none of the rest of “tanks” were useless, just not as important. Because nature of the beast that is Quick Play, game was balanced about being able to beat any mission with whatever motley crew you have assembled.

  • Positioning - nothing new, you got surrounded you were more or less dead then as you’re now, well now you’re dead faster since attacks come faster and your pitiful base regen can’t keep up, so you’d have to build tanky, if you find yourself in such situations often.

  • Map knowledge - what to know more cheese spots? Or you mean due to buggy spawn and tracking system knowing where those bugs would least affect you?

  • Communication - oh yeah:

When using tools of communication is detrimental to your game. What a great design!

There’s way more to the differences. V1 numbers on Nightmare were more akin to Recruit numbers in V2. Trying to recreate same experience as V1 in V2 ain’t happening.

And here we have it. Eh @Rumeht tackles your statements better than I could, I’ll leave it to him.


No, because it has nothing to do with fairness. I’ve explained why they would want to make the gameplay style flow from each difficulty. Your initial point about me saying something unfair is irrelevant.

Also you keep trying to say that it’s about me getting what I wanted and other people losing out. All I’ve done is tried to explain why they may have made the decisions they did. A lot of Fatsharks decisions come from feedback, and lots of people were calling out Legend as being a run-off-solo-fest. The fact that they tried to address it with multiple changes during development is no shock at all.

Anyway, your responses here seem mostly emotional, so I’ll just leave that as my final response into ‘fairness’.



He didn’t address the point you quoted about the reward system.

A lot of people here and on other Fora. Many more people who aren’t so vocal were getting rekt in Legend regularly in 1.6 and it feels like the relative minority who have been vocal about Legend being too easy have got what they wanted at the expense of others.

I completely disagree that something like a red that gives you guaranteed stats boost should be gated behind difficulty. Some Skins&Frames - yes- make them legend/cata only, but keep a lot of the content locked behind difficulty and you risk annoying a lot of your customers.

Virtually ALL of the skins and available at Legend should be available some other way as well at lower difficulties in my opinion, albeit at either a much higher cost to time or something - like the Bonfires frame in the Winter event. As there is so much content locked to Legend, it is fostering some high-brow opinions that people either need to improve themselves or miss out on all that content.

Problem is (on this forum at least) those who can run CATA/ LEGEND are complaining the combat isn’t as engaging or fun.

Not many people are truly happy so the OP posted 2 weeks ago still stands.


:thinking: That’s a 2H hammer. There seems to be some fundamental misunderstanding you have here. So I’ll throw on a song and start working my way from the top to the bottom.

Course not. Which is why my opinion is not reflective of the entire community. On the same token, the way you play is just as little of an indicator of the community as a whole. People have differing playtimes of play levels and playtime they can even dedicate afterall. But you’re saying that the rewards were somehow not dependent on a time investment. And that’s wrong. My friend has played this game significantly less than me. Only about 400 hours. He still has yet to see a red conflag staff. I can’t begin to make assumptions on the many many things that are ticking off people. I have some, and some people share my sentiments. On the other hand, you find things you like and you share their sentiments.

They don’t die if I’m alive. They may get downed from but pokes. But that’s what happens when two people are next to each other or are fighting the same wave from the same angle. But die? I refuse to allow it. Generally outside of them getting antsy and sprinting into the distance for some elite, they’re alive. As I’ve said, I work under the assumption that they will get disabled and adjust accordingly. But to be frank, I was a little mean spirited. Because I was operating under the assumption that you’d have a comment preplanned to try and rip my playstyle apart, so I got an inarguably good player to play alongside.

Why was the BH high? Because he was a good player. Why is his ranged high? Because he knows how to fight in a horde without being side by side to somebody. And by proxy he knows the distance to avoid taking aggro and proc a running attack that I then have to deal with. I can’t QP into a non cata game and make these assumptions of a random.
Pay special attention to our revives. If I’m any distance farther than one that allows me to instantly pick up an ally, that’s a failure on everybodies part.

Back to the scorecard that you’re talking about. The WS doesn’t get to have high ranged presence because we’re doing maps with easy party surrounds and he’s competing directly against the Sienna. The Sienna however did great. As indicated by her damage done and her total kills. For clarity to you and any who are reading this:
Burn damage doesn’t show up under ranged or melee kills
Your assumption that she had to “run around kiting” is incorrect.

Have another one while we’re at it
Where was the safest play in the finale of Horn of Magnus? Near me but not on top of me. Because hits I dodge are hits they take. And when they take these hits I then have to go pick them up. What was the safest place to be when the CW’s dropped? Near me. Because axes stagger them as they have no functional poise and that heavy stagger let’s everybodies stagger talents burn them down.

Next up

  1. I imagine your games also still take forever if in every stress point you just wall up and not budge a bit, while being highly susceptible to oolos gas, max distance oot storms, and double banners.
    However that’s mostly inconsequential
  2. It’s not my job to play a certain way and have certain weapons just because my team is composed of certain individuals. To begin with. When you QP into games, you are almost certainly at risk of being sucked straight into the mission. Let’s say I’m running 2h axe and pickaxe. There’s no way I’m front lining for anybody. Least of all because I’d probably be running barge if I’m using pickaxe to cleave for… various reasons related to the consistency of Grimnirs Focus

Next up

You goofy goober. 36 ranged kills. 24 specials. Throwing axes pierce. An axe or two (counting misses) for a special that may cleave. Don’t be silly.
I’m not running around with axes out. For one they don’t benefit from focus. For two they don’t provide temp.

Good grief

The entire point, which I’m glad you’ve picked up is that Legend teaches no tools for teamplay. The highest success method of winning requires playing into yourself. These lessons are not true for cata. In which I now have to play to my allies because of the inflated health and damage values.

Next, as I’ve mentioned at length which you’ve glossed over intentionally it seems, it was more than possible to introduce two difficulty modes. One paid, one not. That served to branch up to the current tier (but a little harder because current Legend is a relative joke when you start abusing the game) and from that current tier into Cata. Recruit to Legend remains the same. Offical Legend+ we’ll call it, serves as a teacher. Cata is the capstone. One paid. One not. Great idea? Yeah I know Hooray me.

Oh and this song is over. One moment.

Moving on again.

Good for you. And I sincerely mean that.


This is what new Legend is like*
The only reason I keep the other guys alive is because I MIGHT get pounced. And I need them to escape from that.


Firmly disagree. I think temp hp should be further reduced across the board. If you want to invoke more teamplay you either use the suggestions of my post or you put health to such a degree that hits of any sort are now things the team can’t take. This provides more value to Merc and Bomb Balm as well as makes heal share a desirable trait and let’s NB be competitive again.
These should be relative.

You’re playing a glass cannon career? Then you’re glass cannon. Period.

So in conclusion:

  • Not fighting side by side to somebody isn’t the same as not fighting near anybody.
  • Good players are good players and less than good players have absolutely no impact on a Legend clear
  • Legend in its current form teaches nothing and is in many ways a worse gameplay experience than previous Legend (Cata is great though)
  • I don’t like this iteration and that’s fine
  • You like this iteration and that’s also fine

Not trying to change anybody’s mind here :stuck_out_tongue:


That’s because the learning curve didn’t represent the harder difficulties and give a similar feeling throughout the game. On V1, our group didn’t move to Nightmare until we had learned all of the maps and increased our skill enough, then we played on Nightmare an lost 90% of our matches until we improved. The playstyle was similar on each difficulty, but more intense.

This couldn’t be said of V2. The teamplay learning curve didn’t exist beyond high end deeds, and even they could be similar to Legend at the time. Legend now teaches you to play more like Cata. I haven’t seen if they succeeded in doing this with the lower difficulties, but I hope so.

And it doesn’t matter if you’re not going to play Cata. What matters is consistancy in gameplay. There’s no point in having 5 difficulties which all feel like a completely different game.

In the last game reds took forever to farm, I think I only ended up with one or two, and I was happy with that. I’m not against giving high stats for gameplays sake, but the reward system has been moot for a while. When you’re sitting with 100 Emperor’s chests and w/e else, and can’t even be bothered to open them, doesn’t that tell you something?

There’s no point in having rarity at all if the reds are pretty much given to you. Just have reds and be done with it.

Now, I prefer long term rewards to be tangible in gameplay, but some people don’t mind. So in terms of cosmetics vs stats, I’m willing to take a long term cosmetic reward if they don’t want to do stats. My problem is that the cosmetic store they were planning on down the line may have better looking stuff than the thing you’re going to farm.

But the main point is to give ANY long term reward at all. Not have the highest tier of reward be in every other Emp chest.

I’m not responding to you when you’re being so emotional. sorry.

Not really worth my time.

What? You just skimmed the post you goober.

Read the TL;DR.
Though, actually it’s not necessary. I was correcting misguided assumption. But, I’ll gladly take an out when ones presented to me : P

Hmm… I don’t think this works the way you think this works.

Ah, @Rumeht , we mere peasants are unworthy of someone who interprets wisdom or creators!


As I’ve said. I’m not one to turn down an out. I’m a bit overdue to pen up a RV super-post but (I think I’d rather wait another 10 minutes in this cata queue and see if I get two more people)

Sides. My late night post sure was emotional. I get emotional sometimes so, maybe they’re right? :hugs:

ôO How so ? Commendation chests gives nearly no red ? Did he spend 500 hours on recruit ?

Commendation chests and chests to complete daily missions, and good luck!

Don’t believe it at all, sorry. The Commendation Chest chance for Veteran items is so low that he’d have to play double the hours or more in order to get full Veteran items for one character compared to just doing it from Legend Vaults.

Yeah, forget it.

A new hero or careers will not bring any form of sustainability to the current game.

It is a broken game with more bugs than any other I’ve encountered, its time to step up and actually perform QoL fixes on features in the game that spit in players faces and say “waste your time rerolling MORE!”


I completely agree with you.

The main complaint is they changed the core mechanics. I was looking forward to this expansion but it has been a great disappointment for me, not that they didn’t add enough content but because they changed too much and made it less fun for me.

VT2 is the only game i played over the last year. But at the current state of the game i will not bother wasting my time with it. I’ll keep an eye on patch notes and might be back in a few month if FS finally listened and fixed this mess.


Red’s might be considered reward but they are also progress. They are the unlocking of top tier stats. It has been is and will likely continue to be a sore point for people who like the game but have no expectation of this being fixed.

It’s MMO game design and its poor form at this point.

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Why not join the Fatshark Discord