I agree with many of the points made here.
I tried to approach the current veteran “issues” in this thread:
Feel free to add your ideas there. Maybe we can come up with something solid 
shred & devastating strike, only cause I happened to roll t4 of the latter. like @dumlefudge said, I’d like to test out shred & rampage.
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Vet just gets better ranged toughness regen options. 2.5 would just be a waste of a skill.
Confirmed kill is 20 times the toughness gained, right next to bring them down/superiority complex and iron will. All great skills. Works on ranged and melee kills
Exhilarating take down is 6 times the toughness gained and on the marksman tree if you are heading for the final talents. Also gives free damage resistance.
It’s not about % here, but about toughness regen being part of the playstyle and more options.
Ogryn can generate toughness being afk with Lynchpin or just hitting things, zealot - just being near enemies, psyker - peril generation, warp attacks, peril vent, maybe just on breathing too.
What i would like to see is something like this:
If i take a shotgun for hyperaggresive close combat style so i need to move a lot. What do i need for toughness?
- x% Toughness damage reduction during sprint when shotgun equiped
- while sprinitng x% stamina converting to y% toughness. (like every 5% stamina spent gives 1,5% toughness)
What shotgun, bolter and maybe revolver could benefit from? Toughness for stagger.
What every gun can benefit from too? 2,5% (example numbers) toughness on reloading for every 10% magazine spent.
So vet shouldn’t need to compete with his team for kills just to generate toughness.
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Also the good toughness regen nodes are buried deep within the exclusive parts of the tree for veteran, while the decent options for all the other archetypes are near the top.
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Been playing vet a bunch more to test different things out. A few random observations:
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Power sword indeed feels awful now. Even the energized hits don’t have the same impact, and the result is that stragglers are left alive so you don’t have as much space to activate it safely again. Non-energized hits are terrible. I think this is mostly due to the slaughterer nerf.
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I’ve had more success in building a tougher a vet by ignoring trying to go down far or all the way in the bottom trees. It’s just too expensive. Even getting the +25% ammo doesn’t really feel worth it. Instead, I go pretty wide through the tree to pick up a lot of utility skill along the way and stack multiple sources of toughness regen.
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Scavenger is the only useful aura and pretty necessary, but also feels pretty weak. Scavenger should be made into an easily reachable passive skill and then all of those aura skills should be buffed a little more. They are just terribly uninteresting right now.
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The command ability isn’t a bad idea, but it suffers from the problem where its main benefit is to help a team that’s already struggling as opposed to boosting power to avoid getting into a bad position in the first place. I think the command ability should be made into something more impactful damage wise as a team buff. Reviving teammates instantly could be a sub-node off of it.
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Overall, there are great skills across the whole tree, but those bottom branches bury it all in a pretty inaccessible manner.
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The absence of keystone talents is telling. It does feel like vet is missing the same spice and “cool factor” as the other classes.
Having said all of this, I don’t think the vet is that underpowered overall. Maybe it’s on the lower end of the classes now, but power wise it’s okay. It’s just that the builds that are good don’t feel all that exciting or interesting to play.
Last - am I the only one or does going into infiltration not provide any visual effect?
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While PS did get a nerf that (IMO) was not necessary, I think the Slaughterer nerf just goes to show how hard that blessing was carrying weapons. You can feel it similarly on the Illisi, although not to the same extent, since that has strong crit/weakspot to fall back on - the Power Sword doesn’t have the multipliers or blessings (AFAIK) to make that work.
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The Recon las is not that good, guys. It got buffed for sure but anyone saying the thing is even half as good as the Veteran builds of old is delusional. Voidstrike Psyker beats it, Ogryn with incen beats it.
The Vet having viable melee focused builds is also not a valid alternative to its more ranged focused builds of the past. The Zealot class already exists. It’s fine that it has melee-focused branches, but the best builds on the Veteran class should be ranged-focused, and it’s not the case.
The class needs a lot of tweaking. It’s a shriveled husk of what it once was. There is potential. I can see what FS was trying to do with some of its potential builds, but they hedged like crazy fearing the FPS bros would play the game for a laugh and easily dominate with precision weapons. It’s so damn obvious.
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I’ve written a post about what I would consider the main problem Nodes on the Vet talent tree if anyone wants to check it out:
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That’s perhaps the most fundamental criticism of the Veteran talent tree I agree with.
All the critical game changing nodes are buried deep, so you can only pick a handful. This also goes for the important core talents you’d have picked previously.
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Yeah, pretty much all of the veteran’s old passives are buried in the exclusive branches of the trees.
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Most definitely. The nerfs to the meaningful melee blessings on Power Sword have caused it to lack crunch now.
I mean you can build it to be a preventive teambuff. You leave the revival thing out and go deep in the Support tree, then you can give a 5 second 20% dmg buff + 50 toughness every 45 seconds to your team. It’s just too much point investment, though. You no longer get the option of going for anything else, if you do.
Full agreement.
And they’d have been amazing. Weapon Specializations totally fit his bill. I’m sad they were not put in.
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I really enjoy Veteran right now; I think Executioner’s Stance is fine. Pls do not break anything
EDIT I prefer other abilities (and likely always will) and wouldn’t be averse to a few Executioner tweaks or buffs. But it’s a good foundation, and feels like a proper gunner imo
I disagree, I think killing elites/specials is on brand for a sharpshooter class and dont mind that they have to spend a few more points to get confirmed kill since its surrounded by good talents and ranged classes are safer to play.
Maybe its just because I only play auric these days, but there are plenty of enemies to kill. When psyker gets its deserved nerf there will be even more.
Shotgun could get its own version of stripped down.
Fatshark in a previous dev blog said they had talents for certain ranged weapons but didn’t like it, I agree with that (I would like to see shock troop affect every weapon is some reasonable way)
Lol. The more traditionally ranged focused the build, the harder it is to play now. Melee builds are insanely powerful and easy.
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Wat? Enemies literally spawn within ass-stabbing range right now and vet’s ranged-focused build is a glass cannon. The biggest thing keeping you alive at T5++ is the fact that you’ve got other teammates to act as bait.
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Veteran only got better , much much better with a flexibility of option for better. Only thing that still lacking - ammo economy. Survivor Aura should return more ammo, and there should be more ammo returning options.
Ok, let’s say anyone genuinely believes that for a second. It should then be no problem for all Veteran players to get access to fourth and fifth single tree nodes that spend all points but recreate the 75% toughness damage reduction and volley fire extension and regen, and full reload builds.
This shouldn’t be overpowered in the slightest because these are the old builds and Veteran has never been better.
I’m expecting unanimous support on this one, guys.
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Worst class?
Now his Crit-build Lasguns got almost unlimited ammo.
Recon Lasgun with Onslaught rending can kill even Crushers (Damnation) in mere seconds.
And with those “babes”, it’s nearly impossible to die:
