This feedback aims to mainly focus on bad/useless nodes with some added feedback on the general problems with the setup of the talent tree.
I start my post by thanking @MarxistDictator for pointing out how much better the Deep Dive version of the talent tree looked distribution-wise. Anyone map the current nodes onto the tree and see how much better it is just by looking at it. It isn’t perfect, but the positions of the nodes are way better. I don’t really know why we didn’t get this version, probably there would be a lot less negativity, even if the bad nodes are still bad on it.
Now the actual post:
Now that I had time to play around with the talent tree I came to the conclusion that it is designed in a way to tax you useless nodes as much as it can forcing you to take subpar options for a lot of weaponry. The tree is also absolutely full with nodes that are completely useless for Auric difficulty, and choices between 2 bad options. This post is focused on the bad nodes.
Now, I don’t know if the suspicions about the testers seeing Vet as a problem are true, but due to how the tree is set up, and how brutally some playstyles were destroyed, with 0 dedicated support to iconic Vet weaponry it’s hard to argue against it.
First start with something going completely against what was written in the Deep Dive: Shock Trooper
Now I wouldn’t say this is a bad node, it’s a great node, one that enables Lasguns, Recon, and especially Helbore with the right setup to have basically infinite ammo (or in Recon’s really good ammo supply/sustain compared to anything else). The problem is that it goes entirely against the philosophy outlined in the Deep Dive.
It’s exactly that. A mandatory node that offsets the entire balance of a particular weapon(s) and it’s mandatory for maximizing efficiency, and an absolute pass for any other setup that isn’t using those particular weapons.
I’m not against these types of nodes. Actually seeing how many Veterans are running Helbore which is currently (almost certainly) the best-performing Sharpshooter weapon, we might need more like this. Either that or it should be changed, and las weapons shouldn’t be balanced around this node.
Continuing from the left side: Catch a Breath/Kill Zone
These nodes are close to useless in Auric Level missions, and completely useless in Auric STG or Auric Maelstrom missions. There isn’t really that much time when you aren’t completely surrounded by enemies, and in those quiet few moments, these Nodes aren’t needed at all.
I think these nodes are fine on lower difficulties and low-intensity engagements (and shouldn’t be deleted/changed), but these should be a choice between these and generally really good nodes, like Always Prepared (+ammo) and/or Determined (Suppression Immunity), and not like something that comes next.
Opening Salvo:
First, I don’t know why this node isn’t somewhere at the end of the precision tree, second, this is one of those nodes that is just worse than any travel node (maybe the suppression one is worse).
I have trouble seeing any situation where this would be useful. Maybe an anti-roulette revolver where you always keep your weapon full? There are so many good ways to make a precision crit node:
- Ranged weapons have +10% Critical Hit Chance.
- The first shot in a salvo has +10% Critical Hit Chance.
- Weakspot hits have +10% Critical Hit Chance.
Something that makes it a reliable bonus. It’s currently just a tax node if you are going into Executioner stance and it’s up against Kill Zone which is just useless on the hardest difficulties.
Traveling to the Right: Twinned Blast:
Now this might sound fun, but 10% chance really? It does sound fun, additional grenade… but with a 1 in 10 chance?
This node should make your Grenades twin either when on full capacity or when it’s the last one. It would make it a really powerful node, of course, one that’s worth going for in a grenade-heavy build.
Another why%: Competitive Urge
This is the lowest percentile chance to trigger ability in the game, and worst of all it’s tied to a damage boost. Totally unreliable. The worst part of this node is when it actually triggers it’s a substantial damage boost that actually makes a big difference. It’s also the complete opposite of Take a Breath/Kill Zone, as in it is actually a lot more useful in high difficulties and High intensity where the hordes are bigger, and the enemies are more numerous in general.
Either increase the chance so it can trigger reliably (while maybe lowering the bonus) or give some toughness to Veteran when allies kill things close to them/in coherency (something that is the opposite of the Born Leader). Stealing VT2 SoTT ability where you gain a portion of the overcapped Toughness gained from others would be very fitting.
I’m also fine with a replacement with something entirely different.
Honorable Mentions: The New and Dull Auras
I’m not going to go deep into this. These are just bad. They already going up against Survivalist, but even then these are the worst auras in the game. I have a feeling that Field Improvisation should have been an aura, but maybe I’m wrong.
Fire Team should at least be 5% damage or 10% specialized damage (+10% ranged damage perhaps). This could also be something like Tougness can go over the cap by 10% while in coherency, would synergize well with Iron Will for the vet and it’s a very “inspiring leader” type aura.
Close and Kill at least gives a boost that can actually be felt. Still don’t like it.
Honorable Mentions: Melee Tree
Now right out of the gate, why does the beginning of the close-range/melee tree start with +5% Suppression? Shouldn’t it be something like Critical Hit Chance or Melee Damage… Toughness Damage Reduction maybe?
That out of the way I just wanted to take a moment to look at the general design of the tree and how much it is set up against Class Weapons.
While Duck and Dive is a good general engagement tool the next 2 sets of choices are dedicated to:
- Quick Weapon swapping between melee and ranged. (Agile engagement)
- Dodging a lot in combat. (Reciprocity)
- A lot of small fast hits to increase damage. (Serrated Blade and Onslaught)
Now Power Sword the Melee Class Weapon of the Veteran:
- Requires activation to reach its full damage output which takes time.
- The lowest mobility melee weapon in the Veteran’s arsenal.
- After activation deals a large amount of damage.
Now still, Power sword does get some boost from these nodes, but it gets less than any other weapon. Now if you pick Power Sword and want to maximize its potential you have to get through a bunch of nodes that give very, very little to the weapon’s efficiency, while any other weapon get’s a huge boost. I think this can go into a “being taxed” category.
How little extra is on the tree for some other weapons a lot of Sharpshooter players enjoyed (Bolter and Plasma) is very apparent. Also, their (almost) must have node of +ammo being buried deep in the left (precision) side of the tree, but that’s another topic I’m sure you’ve seen feedback on.
Biggest Offenders, the Worst of the Best: Tactical Awareness & Confirmed Kill
I want to start by saying that these aren’t weak nodes. They are actually very, very powerful ones. Then what’s the problem? There are multiple…
Tactical Awareness is all that the Veteran has to reduce its cooldown and it is entirely reliant on actually getting the last hit on specials. This can turn helpful allies dealing damage to the incoming horde of specials into… Infuriating kill stealing … People.
While on the other hand, the Zealot who charges the flamer won’t be happy that you took his kill even if it was for the greater good of being able to get off another Commanding Shout quicker giving a teamwide buff or getting someone off the floor quickly.
Confirmed Kill is equally bad in this regard. Your toughness sustain is so reliant on getting the last hit on elites and specials that you turn into a maniac trying to gobble as many of the elite/special kills as possible so if you accidentally touch fire from the 4th flamer or the 3rd bomber coming in this wave you will be safe.
Hearing shards flying or a Zealot next to you gives you an instant adrenaline rush that you must absolutely take the kills so you can have some regeneration going, or have your Combat Ability back in time.
Both of these talents aren’t that bad on traditional stay-back-and-shoot Veteran playstyle but with frontline play or Voice of Command team support, I don’t think these Nodes push you towards healthy playstyle. I’m certainly not enjoying it, and when I start shooting whatever the Zealot is fighting just to get the kills he won’t be happy either.
Other classes get CDR and Toughness regeneration tied to their own abilities (that aren’t restrictive) or team-wide performance. Ogryn gets CDR on Elite killed by anyone in coherency, Zealot from a lot of sources, and Psyker has the closest one with Psykinetic aura, but…
The last 2 problem with these two Nodes is how incredibly impactful they are and that Veteran has nothing else to go for. Forgoing these two talents is almost impossible, even with a precision-based build that can take advantage of Exhilarating Takedown you think twice before forgoing Confirmed Kill since that’s the only Toughness Regeneration source Veteran has that can go on even after receiving damage, making sure you are topped off.
I think they should be reworked in some way to include kills taken by others (with proper adjustments to power level) or include elite/specials that you damaged to grant the bonus. It would also welcome the introduction of new possible ways of toughness regeneration and CDR that don’t make you a maniac running after kills.
To anyone not really getting why am I getting angry at allies “taking my kills” just think about the old Brain Burst when people kept shooting at the targets making it hard for Psykers to keep up their Warp Charges.
After thoughts:
While all new Combat Abilities and Blitz Abilities have problems, or a bit weak but they are actually fun additions that just seem to have something missing. Also, the overall reduction in the Veteran’s ammo capacity is a crime. Let the Sharpshooter shoot most of the time, even if he isn’t running a las weapon.
Now… Until changes are made I put aside my beloved collection of Plasma Guns that has almost no ammo, had no substantial changes, has no proper support in the Veteran tree, and can’t even chain Volley Fire (Executioner Stance) on Ogryns anymore, which can’t even penetrate bruisers on a normal shot and swap it to a Voidstrike staff that requires no ammo, has almost infinite cleave, does incredible damage, vents heat faster while dealing no damage to you and sits on a class with way (waaay) better survivability and sustain. Please don’t nerf Voidstrike until Veteran is fixed, don’t take away my fun.
