Detailed proposition for another veteran talent tree rework (with images)

Everything is pretty much written here, thoughts? I think it’s way more fun, useful and flexible. Small clarification: tagged enemies means tagged by you, the ones with the unique tag color


I think this is my favorite so far of the vet trees proposed. The only thing I’d recommend is taking that last chunk of the tree before the keystones and bringing it together into another ‘you would absolutely take this’ perk before splitting out into the three keystone options/ult buffs. That way you really do have the most flexible tree like Fatshark says they wanted.

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So like, add a 3 stat node after the ult upgrades and make it go from left to middle to right like the top ones? Or do something like I did before the grenades?

The latter. You want to minimize the ‘crossover’ cost for Vet near the end imo.

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I guess anything that takes less than ~18 nodes before reaching keystone will be better than what we got now

Some of the specific node changes together with the changed keystones would 100% be too good but In principle I love this.

There are a ton of fantastic changes in here.

Yeah maybe some nerfs here and there, I can’t exactly play this theoretical skill tree but I think it’s a good base.

I think removing twin blast altogether is a great call. The chance is extremely low and I think I’ve seen it proc once Siri g a match when I used it.

Alternatively it would be nice if it was reworked on a tuner where it will always go off but has a long cooldown to reward strategic play. Even then it’s a hard sell so removing for a slimmer tree is nice.


Twin blast is worth taking now because they doubled the chance to 20%. Still not amazing but a reasonable replacement for grenade on elite kill, which is locked away at the bottom of the tree where no one can afford it unless they go all-in on buying the ping target keystone.

Oh it’s still there, but should be better cause of the grenade aura I suggested with a chance not to consume grenades. Demolition team is baked into the aura cause let’s be honest, picking anything other than survivalist feels awful, you don’t even get the unupgraded ammo aura if you get a 5% damage or speed.

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Good work well done. It is definetly better than what we have and i agree with the proposed changes/removal of the nodes.

A lot of the layout is better here, especially the merged perks + upgrades. I think the standouts to me are that:

  • This helps massively with tree depth, much more in line with the versatile Zealot, you can generally snake the tree and grab perks you need for your build, best part of your suggestion by far is trimming all the fat and consolidating perks
  • Middle keystone should definitely have a grenade option since middle tree has all the main grenade perks
  • Tactical Awareness is heavily nerfed in your suggestion. The perk is good, if you want to use it perhaps it should be further down the tree and still strong, in your picture it would be a required take on every build, but not feel especially good.
  • Still not a fan of how the keystones work but definitely an improvement over the current ones:

Weapon Specialist is still mechanically broken, no considerable change from your suggestion. It’s hamstringing the player to tell them they should be toggling weapons in a hoard to maintain their buff. It’s not a good way to play, and adding some passive crit chance doesn’t really justify it. This keystone needs more. It needs a node that triggers some aoe pushback effect when swapping to ranged, or 1 second of invisibility when swapping to ranged, a free bullet consuming 2 stacks of ranged specialist, etc. Some kind of effect that supports the playstyle. Not to mention that the perk still fundamentally has the issue that if you kill a hoard with melee, and one special spawns shortly thereafter that you need to shoot, you are then forced to dump all your stacks of ranged specialist by drawing your ranged weapon to kill it.

Marksman’s focus wouldn’t work with automatic builds in your suggestion, which would be almost ok if any of the other perks did. This is also the ammo efficiency tree, so it needs automatic weapon support to really work. Missing a shot will happen if you’re firing a recon lasgun into a hoard.

Focus Fire you still have the issue of playing on damnation, where you have 5 Crushers. You can only FF one of them, then your stacks aren’t returned for another 16 seconds. More outstanding tags would be great but doesn’t really matter if you have no stacks built up. I think aligning with your suggestion, if it were something like “Every 5 seconds you get a new tag”, and anything tagged has the full bonuses currently granted by dumping 8 stacks of FF on someone then this might work better. If you can do that, and tag one target multiple times concurrently, then this becomes both interesting and viable.


They should just dip into the VT2 perks for this. On melee kill: next grenade use throws two grenades. Nerf the extra throw for all it matters, the issue is that grenades are a rare resource, and you can’t consistently trigger this perk to actually play around it.

Not a fan of low profile baked into infiltrate, surprise attack should be, cuz low profile competes with hunter’s resolve. Also don’t really like onslaught being nerfed to melee only, it would take too long to stack on melee hits and right tree has a lot of hybrid stuff that doesn’t make sense to me. Everything else looks much better though; less stat nodes but they are buffed, less crappy nodes, more desirable nodes are not locked behind something.

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Name one time you want this perk. One time. If you have 3 Krak grenades and dump them on a boss, expected value is still <4 grenades thrown. You still only have a 1-(0.8)^3=48.8% chance of proccing at least once if you dump all 3 grenades together.

Double smoke grenades is without value, there’s literally no effect to having two besides maybe blocking ally vision at that point.

Shredder grenade being the generic hoard clear weapon, throwing an extra grenade doesn’t really have much effect. You already kill generic mobs with one grenade, and with the bleed damage nerf it’s not going to send you over the edge to killing carapace armored enemies.

If you could consistently trigger the perk, then it would have value on a grenade build or as a generic perk for weapon switching. One of the keystones for weapon specialist maybe granting a single, guaranteed extra grenade while at 10 stacks of ranged specialist (similar to the perk that existed in VT2) would probably be good value and (similar to VT2) still balanced.

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Focus target should have a mod that gives back stacks if you kill the tagged target, but it lowers the bonus damage.

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That’s easy enough.

Now that frags have bleed integrated into them by default, two frag grenades stacking bleeds can kill infinite numbers of groaners, poxwalkers and scab/dreg shooters/melee/gunners/ragers, and any special other than mutants. Infinite numbers, as many as will fit inside the bleed radius, which is much wider than the blast radius. It’s a reset button on par with the ogryn frag and if double grenade procs you can do it with a single throw.

Secondly if you combine double grenade with the other grenade perks you have potentially far more than just three kraks. You regenerate one krak a minute, which can make a difference in long boss fights, multi-boss fights, and against ogryn patrols. You can also get grenades on elite/special kill, and there’s no shortage of those on high difficulties. If you really want to be a cheesy munchkin you can take the perk that reloads your grenades when you use an ammo crate to throw 3+3+3+3+3*1.2 = 18 krak grenades, plus any you regenerate during the fight, plus any you get from killing elites/specials. 18 kraks is enough to kill two chaos spawns by yourself.

It’s good enough now that I felt it worth taking the perk in my post-patch build, all that being said…

This is exactly the way it should work because if players can choose when to proc the double throw it actually has a skill ceilling instead of just being based on RNG hopes and dreams. Ranger duping grenades with his ult in VT2 allowed for far more strategies because it let you spend it exactly when you wanted to, with no RNG. Or save the free grenade for later if you didn’t want to use it immediately and things like conc pots that boost ult recharge speed also translate into more grenades. This was especially true in chaos waste runs where boons complicate things even more.

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