Fatshark you really did LAZY job with WS regen nerf- Her ammo passive is useless now and her Passive is non-existant with 2 Grims taken. Change it to aura for team

First of all- congratulations of listening to haters bandwagon- You nerfed her in most LAZY way, like you totally didn’t think through it. It was probably like “we need to nerf WS because people are crying and we need as big playerbase as posible”, “Lets just cut it by 50%!” /End. This nerf gutted more than just passive:

Problem no 1- Now her ammo regen talent also doesn’t work if she is not below 50% Hp. Not only that makes useless talent overall to use- because the better you play the more useless it is but also it works less the more grims you have because you get less ticks of regen. So you make that talent a punishment for good gameplay. In V1 Cata at some point you could even play without damage taken at all. At one point people will be good enough in V2 to not go below 50% HP often- which makes this talent now totally useless.

Problem no 2- That was obvious for me first time I have seen change- GRIMS! Did you even think about that? Grims CUT your MAXIMUM HP. Means that with 2 Gtims her passive becomes worst passive in game- because it heals only below 50% of you REMAINING HP AFTER TAKING 2 Grims. So it’s like 1-2 ticks at must, which is in state when you are for one-shot on Legend anyway.

Problem no 3- Her Team Regen talent is also mostly useless as you have to play BAD to benefit team- WTF?? If I play good and I am NEVER Below 50% HP- why is my talent punishing me for it? Did you even take a look at talent synergies?

Biggest Problem no 4 - IF YOU PLAY WELL, OR EVEN PERFECT- YOU BASICELLY DO NOT HAVE PASSIVE ABILITY AT ALL. If I play very well and I am never below 50% HP on my runs (which is what you want on Legendary!)- YOU PUNISH ME WITH REMOVING MY PASSIVE, WHICH NOW BENEFIT ONLY BAD GAMEPLAY FOR PLAYER who is taking too much damage is is below 50% of his HP most of the game. How stupid does it sound for game mechanic to you Fatshark?

Well, if I needed any other proof you did this nerf in last moment in desperate attempt to cater to bandwagon- I don’t need more.

I. Suggestions for Fix YOUR nerf:

1. Make her ammo regeon talent work as seperate regen without counting HP regen. It has now no synergy with it, so make it just seperate. Make it slower if needed- whatever, just make it seperate, since you didn’t think about synergy at all after your change. Or make it Aura for whole team.

2. Make her regen not count Grims 2 HP penalty- this way her passive will become stronger the more risky and challanging the run is. Then with 2 Grims she will be able to heal over time her remaining HP to full. This will benefit even good players who don’t go below 50% of HP during runs as they tend to take 2 Grims. Also with Aura talent taken- it will benefit teams that do 2 grims GREATLY.

3.Make her regen heal for less the more HP she looses, removing your stupid 50% HP treshhold. So like she heals at her normal speed till 50% of HP, and after being less than 50% HP- she heals 50% less from regen- this is how you will actually reward me for playing well, instead of punishing for it and punish for playing reckless and bad instead of rewarding it.

II. My suggestion of fixing Health Regen as whole that is better in my opinion than your nerf:

Cut the default regen by 30%, remove 50% HP nerf, make it by default a passive aura for whole team. This way she will benefit whole team with HP regen instead of being hated for “she is the only one with HP regen!”.

Then change her Aura regen talent to some other bonus - like 5% more movement speed (for whole team now, mind you) or something else.

Then you can leave ammo talent as it is as it will, again, benefit whole team.

And finally change her talent that doubles her regen to 30% instead (since it’s now aura)- making it the amount of her pre-change default passive- for whole team.

Now you have less effective self heal, but beneficial on all HP levels, team-play oriented ability with possible of additing to team:

  1. More regen
  2. Ammo regen
  3. Some nice bonus like Movement Speed.
15 Likes

Or just leave as it was. It was only strong on recruit. On Veteran it was average and on Champion, it’s lacking compared to alot of class skills.

The main strength of WS was the on-use special mob removal for hunting blightstormers and globadiers who ran round cover and her AOE regen was just a little icing since you cant camp to full health with the director spamming you with mobs after 5 seconds of stalling.

At least they made the crowd control sword better I guess.

6 Likes

There were many things they COULD do. But they did it half-azz, rushed before release because “omg, players don’t like elf, we need to keep them happy so they play the game- fast, fast nerf, yes-yes”.

Seriously, I could think of at least 5 different ways of changing her that is better than this lazy nerf that made some of her talents useless and her passive totally useless the more challanging game you try to play.

If they were short on time, can you blame them? I am personally in favor of having no mechanic rather than a broken one. If they think the healing was broken I think they were right to nuke it to the ground rather than let it persist until they can think of something better.

Disclaimer: I am not commenting on whether the healing was too good or not (have not done the analysis, nor have the game time to justify a position).

1 Like

Yes I can. My dad was always saying: you do something for others- at least do it right. If they though it was too strong but didn’t have time they could have cut the healing by 50% so it’s very very small benefit but at least it’s something till they think of something better.

Instead they made it useless because they are lazy. They made passive useless in long run, 2 of her talents useless, punishing for people playing well and not taking any damage (then you basicelly don’t have passive at all). What game dev makes mechanic that punishes you for playing well?

I don’t know if you are employed anywhere but believe me “I was in rush before deadline so I did it lazy” is not an excuse anyone will listen. All you will hear in return was “then why you manage your time so bad?”.

3 Likes

Possibly most bad decision is nerfing.
If you nerf almost all game aspects (passives, talents, damage, etc) - players hate you; If you nerf just something - players disagree with that. But if you buff mobs, makes some mechanics harder, but keep classes unchanged (only fix broken mechanics) - players will be happy for new challenges.
And, imho, only 3rd way can make balance changes less painfull for player base (like do almost all big companies).

Many? There are a myriad of games that give benefit to characters at low health. VT2 had them before even: Zealot for example.

My dad was always saying: you do something for others- at least do it right.

So your dad would be in favor of delaying the launch in order to get the WW passive “right”? I don’t agree with your dad. If the issue was not time or work done, it cannot be argued that it was a matter of laziness. Chopping the healing to half, as you suggest, is not not-lazy. Reducing the effectiveness by half would be literally one of the laziest (as in it is very effortless) things a developer can do. Just because you don’t like what they did does not mean they are lazy.

1 Like

Ther is a difference of benefitting a game character for lower HP- like games Zerkers, Barbarians etc. - it gives the buffs to encourage aggresive gameplay or tanking. Different games, different mechanics. Which not something you want to do in Vermintide and is not something that elf is designed for- Tanking.

The current change does not benefit player below 50% HP - it punish player who is above 50% of HP. It could pass maybe as a talent - to support player who lost HP. But not as passive.

Secondly- my dad would just make it right before he run out of time. That is what I am talking about- Not delaying release because of WS balance. They should have delayed to game to MAKE OVERALL BALANCE good. You may not agree with my dad, but that’s how he has one of most successful companies in his field. He mange his time and work before things go downhill.

It actually is. Just halving heal would not bring sh*t ton of problems that their way of “balancing” did. Honestly i dont even understand why it needed to be nerfed. One less person needs healing supplies means more healing for the team. And on later difficulty it a pretty good value. Endless arrows vere funny but pretty strong so nerfing that is understandable. (not like they did but still)

You state this, but give no data to show you are actually correct in any objective sense. We can agree to disagree, we can agree you disagree with Fatshark, but I don’t know how you can claim any actual problems came out of nerfing WW healing. I mean the class is perfectly playable without it.

Cutting the heal in half would be lazy but it’d allow players to maintain their playstyle at the same time. Wasn’t like Kerillians were tanking due to their self healing.

It’s about as lazy as what they did with Unchained. “Oh look, people are pushing air to vent, instead of fixing it so that only pushing enemies cost overcharge, we’ll remove that entire part ofthe passive instead.”

2 Likes

The game was just released. Perhaps the “playstyle” you refer to is something Fatshark did not want to be in their game and they used the beta test to determine that? It’s pretty clear they don’t want the elf’s health to be topped off due to regen (which the old passive did), but rather they want the healing to help to not get downed from one strike when the situation is dire. Well this is what I gathered from the change anyways.

I think the nerf was well deserved, health + ammo regen was just unskilled as possible for such benefit.
Now you actually have to be skilled and take way more risk to actually benefit from this passive.
You are just angry because now the group health regen will actually be more interesting than self benefit brainless passive that was way too strong.

I think they nerfed it the right way without removing it all together.

We have to wait for sienna nerf on overcharge crit reduction brainless mechanic as well.

3 Likes

This is a matter of perspective. Any bonus can be seen as a malus to those not receiving it.

Ther is a difference of benefitting a game character for lower HP- like games Zerkers, Barbarians etc. - it gives the buffs to encourage aggresive gameplay or tanking. Different games, different mechanics. Which not something you want to do in Vermintide and is not something that elf is designed for- Tanking.

You don’t want be low health in Vermintide… that’s why regening health while low hp is very good ability to have! (Granted constantly regening health is even better, but hey can’t always have everything)

Now you actually have to be skilled and take way more risk to actually benefit from this passive.

I am sorry - but are you dense?? You have to be more skilled by loosing 50% of your HP and being constantly below it? The skill in Vermintide on highest difficutlties is TO NOT LOSE HP at all, or lose as small as possible- this is when new passive punishes me. I don’t benefit from it UNLESS I play bad and I am below 50% HP. How does it equal to more skilled= I lost more HP?

Wtf? Did you even read my post or are you part of elf hate bandwagon?

1 Like

Erm it broke other talents? If they did a good job they would at least do something with other talents affected by passive.

On higher difficulties when your regen stops it means oneshot. You are getting oneshotted with or without regen.

Lets call mods cause someone here is not contributing to discussion, just making stupid comments.

Actually playing under 50% hp require more skill, since you need not to get hit at all, and you teammate need to FF you to maintain you under it.

How is not that way more skilled than it was before, because it is too hard ? So you need to have everyting without doing anything ? Srsly your reasoning is BS.

1 Like

They made them significantly less useful, yes. Sometimes when on schedule you have to select the lesser of two evils to get your game released.

On higher difficulties when your regen stops it means oneshot. You are getting oneshotted with or without regen.

So there is a difficulty in the game where no attack does less than 50% of your HP pool? I’m sorry but I have to say I don’t believe you.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu