the bright and illuminating quote you reposted
Derp, yes.
I owe him an apology; he wasn’t arguing in bad faith after all it seems.
It’s like Dexter without Harry’s moral code…
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its like if you don’t know what it does or what its for then you can’t abuse it. or understand the issue, but whatever.
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That ‘some people’ being one of the Fatshark devs that helps out in the modding Discord, just to add some more context.
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That’s why I quoted it.
Yes, but you accidentally left out who was actually saying it. In this particular case it’s pretty important information.
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I already responded to your “don’t do things a human can’t do” argument. I think it’s bogus, just like your ignoring the argument that FS truly has no control over mods unless they take it back with EAC and/or sanctioning. What you consider cheat mods will still be out there, able to secretly poison your matches by giving players a marginal advantage over their base level of play.
Your continued attempts to conflate cheating in competitive sports and majorly-game-affecting cheats like loaded dice (which is so much closer to the cheats that simply aren’t possible with mods in DT, like giving yourself infinite health or 100% crits) with mods says a lot about your argument, I think.
As does your refusal to engage with any of the things that might be an actual solution to your very niche problem.
Mods have been out for over 1.5 years, tons of people use mods (even the ones you personally think are foul), the game is doing great, and practically no one is complaining about mods…because they really don’t do much and they certainly do not regularly ruin matches.
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I think the “don’t do things a human can’t do” is interesting, but not a suitable criteria.
For instance, Chat block – a human couldn’t do that afaik because you can’t block and type (or maybe you can if you hold RMB idk). Same for Numeric UI – a human definitely can’t parse a healthbar into an exact number. Oh, and Custom HUD – this one’s obviously not possible. Most QoL mods in fact.
I chose the above because they are extremely inocuous, and save for Chat Block have no direct effect on gameplay. However, they would arguably not meet the criteria of “things a human can’t do” due to their nature.
Spidey Sense on the other hand, absolutely fits (sorry gpk) as it triggers off sound cues. A lot, and very obtrusively compared to subtle sound cues, but imo falls squarely into the bracket of “things a human can do”.
These macros and things, like Always First Attack and the ridiculous staff m1 spam are not in the same league as mods so I’m gonna call apples & oranges. If this is not intended behaviour then it should be patched – in some cases this has already happened.
In any case, I’m glad that nobody is advocating EAC and I do think that introducing some modding guidelines could be a good idea – “things a human can do” is an interesting start. I’ll also say that browsing the first few pages of Popular - 1 Year mods on Nexus, the only one that jumps out to me as problematic is the (very popular) Decode Helper: Most popular mods at Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Nexus - Mods and community
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No need to be sorry, it’s already been analyzed and broken down here and the other thread.
The TLDR:
Just because it initially triggers off a sound cue (then throttled for the user’s benefit), doesn’t mean it’s representing what a human can achieve. It’s augmenting it to the point where it’s a (purposeful?) vastly superior representation, leaving the “what a human can achieve” line as a speck in the rear-view mirror.
And again, the code is already there for a for more accurate sound substitute using transparency and size and frequency to mimic distance falloff etc. Nobody would have batted an eyelash if it had been done this way, if the intent was not radar then wow at the lack of awereness.
P.S. You’re right OFC things like Chat Block, NumericUI and Custom Hud are innocuous, I think the assumption was that things of that nature are so obviously exempt that nobody outside of those trying to make false equivalencies would bring them up.
Yes, on the other hand:
MMm yeah it would definitely be less spicy if the default setting was toned down. Again sorry as I know Spidey gets around and has been discussed heaps. This is the kind of mod I do think should be incorporated into the game so that it can be balanced, because in theory it should offer a level playing field (equalising standard speaker setup vs headphones for instance – even more impactful for average console setup) but in reality, as you say, it offers a distinct advantage.
As it is, I’d rather it be left in than excluded as I feel it does more good than harm, but that is very much just my opinion.
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Nobody said otherwise afaik, there was also nothing preventing the author from tweaking it, or the “self-policing” community from actually self-policing in the first place (ed: or at any time since, or that it does indeed to “harm”)…
As you pointed out, it’s vague to the point of being useless. I actually think the modding policy as written is very deliberate and very cogent, and the operative word in it is “directly” in “directly affect unmodded users.”
There is simply no arguing imo that Spidey Sense (or even the suppressed-by-the-community wall hack mod) directly affects unmodded users.
And, again, the policy has been in effect for over 1.5 years and everything is just fine for the vast majority of players.
Adding new, vague language to the modding policy isn’t actually a solution that will remove “cheaty” mods (whatever may be your individual definition of that) and completely disregards the reality of what the enforcement of such a vague rule would look like.
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