Deed rework concept

So I guess we’re all well aware at this point that deeds have been overdue for an overhaul/update for quite some time. Cataclysm deeds aren’t yet a thing, people are tired of stacking up deeds and a lot of the modifiers either don’t work or are severely disliked. So here’s a suggestion around a possible means to remedy this and perhaps also shake up the crafting system:

  1. Deed Crafting

It’d go a long way towards helping inventory cleanup, increasing accessibility to deeds AND increase engagement with the crafting system if it were possible to craft deeds using the same material we’d use to craft weaponry. Unwanted deeds could be scrapped for dust that aligns with their colour and deeds could also be rerolled or upgraded with dust in order to get more modifiers or roll a different set of them. Red/veteran deeds could also possibly be made a thing/potential drop from chests to add some extra spice to the system.

  1. Deed Modifier rework

So deeds right now obviously first and foremost need bug fixes; a lot of the modifiers such as send in the next wave and seek and destroy don’t work consistently if at all at the moment; also cataclysm deeds need to become a thing (availability of them I imagine would be locked behind owning Winds of Magic). That aside, I think there’s a lot of room to expand the pool of available deed modifiers to include the various mutators from weekly events such as tzneetchian twins, darkness of heresy etc. It’d also be neat to include certain weave modifiers in the list such as the lightning effect from Azyr weaves that was added to twitch mode recently. There’s the option for Fatshark to lock those modifiers’ availability behind owning Winds of Magic too if need be. Rewards would obviously scale with deed rarity/number of modifiers with veteran and/or cataclysm deeds perhaps offering up to 3 emperor vaults since the loot grind in this game and the RNG factors of earning red/veteran items has been a sore spot for much of the playerbase for quite some time.

  1. Matchmaking for deeds

Obviously deeds not allowing people to join mid game is a mechanic that exists for a reason but I think it’d be very helpful for players looking for deed lobbies to be able to search for groups that have a deed open in the keep specifically so finding groups would be much easier/streamlined. It could be added as a setting in the lobby browser menu.

All in all I think this would be a multiple-birds-one-stone kind of solution for deeds, loot progression, difficulty progression, group finding and crafting system/resource usage.

Would you like to see a system like this in vermintide 2?
  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

Let me know what you think lads ‘n’ lasses, if you’ve any suggestions or additional ideas/thoughts, fire away in the thread :sun_with_face:

15 Likes

I would love red and cata deeds if they are done well. Loot rewarded, official pinnacle challenges within the non-weave environment sounds amazing.

Lobby browser wise, a tag system would be very helpful for finding players with common goals. e.g. [twitch] or [books] etc

3 Likes

yeah the lobby browser could use some spring cleaning for sure

2 Likes

All good ideas. Thoroughly support all of them.

On the topic of the modifiers themselves:
Nurgle’s Rot: I personally find nothing about this modifier fun. I get the idea of increasing the attrition element of gameplay, and forcing teams to move quickly, I just don’t like how it achieves this. Maybe an alternative such as halving all healing? Hurts your THP generation and makes healing supplies go less far, so theoretically achieves a similar result.
Back to Basics: I’ve personally never heard anyone speak well of this one. No personal experience with it so won’t comment.
Abduction: Cool concept, but in practice nobody wants to be locked out of an entire match potentially from the start. Again perhaps a softer twist on the same theme would be better e.g. Respawning take two times longer than usual (could be three times but I think that’d be getting kinda obnoxious). Would have the added benefit of maybe making the respawn speed property actually desirable at least in this one instance (especially if its effect scales with respawn time, which would make sense).

No issue with the other modifiers as far as I can currently remember.

4 Likes

Honestly, this has been suggested and mentioned so often already (especially Deed Crafting and Matchmaking) that at this point the mere talk will not change anything anymore.

Fatshark has a vision what they want to do with the Deed system which most likely contains parts of the suggested points. They just don’t do it because they don’t want to add a band-aid solution (like changing “item class” of Deeds to something which is craftable) and their larger solution apparently takes more ressources and seems not to be high on the priority list. Or maybe they already have started it and it is lying around half finished somewhere.

Just for completion, another point frequently mentioned, yet missed in OP. There are no Deeds for DLC maps. This should be changed too.

what I’m suggesting isn’t a band-aid solution though?

1 Like

You can name it however you want. Deed Crafting is basically a band-aid (mostly depending on how FS implements it) because it would be an (supposedly) easy and fast to make fix. The main point stands anyway that FS most likely has already a completed concept on where they want to go with deeds.

that’s speculation at best seeing as they’ve mentioned nothing of the sort as of recent

and I don’t think of deed crafting as an easy fix nor a band-aid, I think it’d be a net benefit to the system and health of the game

1 Like

I don’t argue that it would be a net benefit to the system or the game. That does not make it not a band-aid. Still doesn’t change the point that it is one of the most easiest imaginable solutions and has been suggested before.

Also, personally I don’t like summoning developers but maybe we can get an answer in this case.

@Fatshark_Hedge or any other developer. Concerning deeds:

  1. Are you missing a concept what you want to do with them / where you want to go with them?
  2. Are you missing ressource / time to implement an existing concept and/or is it not high on the priority list?

You can pick a number if you don’t want to go into detail where the issue exactly lies.

2 Likes

Band-aid solution:

“A quick, superficial, or temporary solution to a problem that does not address or resolve the underlying cause of said problem.”

as far as I’m concerned deed crafting if done well wouldn’t at all be a band-aid solution. Just because it’s easy to think of or potentially easy to implement (I wager very very few people would actually know enough to say that with any certainty) does not make it necessarily a band-aid. In this case especially so because I don’t think it’s a temporary fix for a wider problem I think it’s part of THE fix for the whole thing. Anyway I won’t argue the semantics further I guess

3 Likes

I absolutely would love a deed rework, but I’d love an even more thorough rework than what you’re suggesting. Just cut out all unnescessary aspects of such a system (like crafting would be in my opinion). If I would be promoted to “Fattest Shark” for a week, I’d put the entire “Shiver” (I had to look up that term) to work in order to overhaul the system in its entirety:

I’d remove Deeds, Weekly Challenge Mode, and Twitch modes as they currently are, and replace them with an all-encompassing “Mutator Mode”, which just lets you pick from all the Deed / Weekly / Twitch modifiers in the game from a menu before te shadow portal loads. (Next to difficulty and map selection, off course, and Twitch mode random event occurences and interval as customisable options as well). Briefly put: Free full costomisation. Probably include Weave modifiers as well if it’s possible. With options for randomisation of any or all aspects included, naturally.

The Weekly Challenge could then be replaced by a “Mutator Mode” combination of the week made by FS. Rewards should scale with the modifiers, off course. And a quickplay-like way to find a group that wants to do this mode. And if it must be so, maybe a price to play such a run in crafting mats or such, refunded upon fail.

I have no idea if this thing would even be possible, but at least I can dream…

6 Likes

I like all of OP’s suggestions. My biggest frustration is the deed drop rate. I’m stuck at 488 completed and it’ll take probably another 100 hours of standard play for the remaining deeds to drop from chests. With no deed lobby and because I don’t play in a pre-made team, waiting for RNG deeds to drop is my only option.

For “quick fix” solutions, I’d suggest replacing the Weekly Event button with a Daily Deed. That way people can use it to quickplay into deeds and will know the modifiers before joining so that they can gear their characters appropriately (nb for deprivation deeds, etc).

Looking at the bigger picture, I would be supportive of adding additional deed modifiers, but I have to say that I find Twitch mode much more fun than deeds exactly because the twitch spawns are more unpredictable you get more variation in challenges throughout a single map. If it were up to me, I would scrap deeds, scrap the weekly event and make twitch mode the only hard variant of the standard game. This would require a twitch lobby and we’d give extra chests based on the twitch spawn rate and size selected by the host, and each completed game would count towards the Deed (twitch) frames.

4 Likes

Even if deeds were reworked, there’s still an issue with them taking up our inventory slots.

Remove deeds as an obtainable item and instead add a drop down menu to the Custom map tab with as many modifiers as a player wants on whatever map and difficulty they want. Rewards would be based on difficulty and number of modifiers.

Example:
Champion difficulty with just 1 modifier will yield a peasant chest.
Legend difficulty with 3 modifiers or more would yield an Emperor’s vault.
Cata deeds would now be possible without glitching.

This is a must have! Lobbies with Deeds activated should be clearly labeled for players who want people to join their lobby. But if someone wanted to play Deeds privately then they should have an option to make their Deed private in the same way you can in the Custom map tab which is why I suggest we just have a drop down menu for modifiers.

4 Likes

As @TManDW has already pointed out, I don’t think that a really good solution can be achieved without a complete overhaul of the entire crafting process. :crossed_fingers:

Nevertheless, this approach is highly unlikely.
So before any “light rework” can take place, bugs are my biggest problem as @Incandescent has already mentioned.

I wouldn’t like to see weave effects in Deeds, of course there would be more variety in the game but I still think that they should be exclusive to Weave as they are the very essence of Weaves.
Deeds should get NEW mutators, you could add e.g. “Clan Moulders Gift” (working title), which makes a boss spawn every x minutes. I think with a little brainstorming in the community you can quickly get some valid options. :thinking:

Furthermore I think that Deed Crafting and the “rewards” as proposed here will only end in a still piling up material recycling. Basically you use materials you got from scrapping loot to get more loot that you will most likely scrap. That doesn’t sound like a good solution to me… but to be honest I can’t think of a - realistically - better one either. :sweat_smile:
I’d like to see skins or hats as a reward for a certain number of deeds (you could also give a certain weighting to mutators and tie the reward to a points system, so you could reach your goal faster with difficult deeds) but that would probably be too much effort to handle.

2 Likes

yeah that’s fair, my hope is that (aside from perhaps reworking modifiers like abduction) disliked modifiers can just be avoided via rerolling. Fully understand though the logic behind keeping weave content contained to weaves so they don’t become redundant aside from frame rewards

1 Like

Some weave modifiers are in twitch mode, no?

1 Like

yeah the Azyr Stormsurge and the Shysh(?) spirit thingy where the little soul ball things chase you after killing something

I wish these things were easier to remember/describe :sweat_smile:

Just remove the ‘crafting’ element of deeds altogether, in my opinion:

  • You’re forced to recieve them from chests
  • You can’t dismantle them
  • They’re for difficulties you don’t play/need a bug to make work
  • I want space for different weapon sets and not random level modifiers

Deeds should be a game mode, not an item.

My inventory is completely full, because of skins and deeds. I can’t even craft new Weapons, because I would have to dismantle items I do use or spam deeds to make space. I can’t open chests for trash items because my inventory is full. :slightly_smiling_face:

If players have a limited amount of inventory space STOP filling it with random items that aren’t Weapons or Charms, etc. PLEASE.

3 Likes

yeah I’m hoping being able to scrap deeds en masse would also alleviate this

1 Like

I just recently started a thread on this topic, in which Hedge has taken a stand… Well it seems very unlikely that we will get a solution for this problem. I also bit into the sour apple and melted a good chunk of my red items…
For me this is just another reason to take a look at the whole crafting system, whether it’s deeds, items, weekly/daily challenges, twitch mode or cosmetics.

Hedge also stated:

on the question:

2 Likes
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