[CATACLYSM] Huntsman + Longobow needs better BREAKPOINTS

  1. It doesn’t seem to me irrelevant;

  2. To spam arrows vs hordes, it’s not an enough trade off. I pick a ranged career to kill Special. Other careers do that job (kill hordes). And anyway also WS can spam arrows toward hordes.
    Moreover BH, thanks his free crit, doesn’t need a particular build to kill specials (he can use properties to be good in melee/vs hordes).
    While WS must use 10% vs infantry, Skaven and Chaos… properties good also to kill hordes;

  3. The point is that, as you have said, ammo regen isn’t an HS’ advantage;

  4. Elf Longbow is more accurate: fact. It has more rate of fire: fact. It has a shorter delay: fact. It can bodyshot every Special and SV: another fact. It just a little bit less efficient toward hordes: but it’s not an enough trade off;

  5. Why? Specials and SV are always present. Also if the map spawn mainly Beastmen. I repeat: HS is a little bit more efficient toward hordes but it’s not an enough trade off. We already have Sienna like ranged career meant to melt hordes. A pure special killer must do his job: kill Specials. And to fill that role, WS and BH will be always better.

  6. With “use the Longbow for almost the entire match” you mean to spam some arrows toward horde? If you play Cataclysm, hordes just spawn on you. You will be always forced to use your melee weapon. I prefer a special killer that simply does his job: kill the specials, as I have said.

  7. as I have already said, a special killer is versatile when he can bodyshot always with a versatile and easy to use weapon… not when he can spam some arrows toward hordes but, when he must totally kill a dangerous special, he’s forced to do headshot.

At the risk of repeating myself for an eternity in the second thread you’ve made I’ll finish with this:

To end this discussion (because you right, we are repeating ourself) let’s make it easy.

We are agree that Huntsman has “less power” toward Specials. You think that it’s ok because Huntsman can use his bow for a longer time. Instead I think that this isn’t an enough advantage for different reasons:

  • also other ranged careers have infinite (and free, they don’t need an headshot) ammo;

  • also other ranged careers can spam toward hordes; sure, Huntsman will do a little more damage… but to fill his role, killing specials is the most important things;

  • in cataclysm we can’t just use always our ranged weapon because often hordes just spawn on us.

We have just a different opinion.

Apart the “spam accusations”, thanks for the conversation. Have a good day.

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The problem is that if you push LB into the spamming ranged attacks over a long period niche, repeater handgun already fills that and is much better at it fires a lot quicker.

There is no reason to take LB if it is outshone by both that and then elf’s LB in the special sniping department.

BH also has great crit, especially if you factor in his talents that reset Blessed Shots on melee kill or the one that reduces its CD to 6s.

Definitely agreed with this QoL change.

This is very true.

On the OP: imo a large part of the problem atm is crossbows are overtuned and on WS Bloodshot gives Kerillian’s LB ridiculous breakpoint potential.

Perhaps for huntsman they could give him a bit of a damage boost on fully charged arrows as right now even if you take 40% power vs you can’t get into one bodyshot range against SV or most specials (excluding gutter runners, warpfire throwers/ratlings who you can). imo for that kind of stat investment you should be able to one bodyshot the chosen enemy type, be they skaven/armoured, skaven/monster, skaven/infantry or chaos/infantry. As it is now in each case you fall between 15-20% short. It’s not like it would make him OP either, as he’d have to pick which enemy type he wants to be able to pwn like that. It’d actually be kinda neat.

He could anyway use at a minimum use a 1% buff to his fully charged arrows at least, as right now he’s short of the 2 full charged bodyshot breakpoint for bestigors and 3 full charged bodyshot breakpoint for maulers by about 0.3% power, and with 20% vs berserkers he’s short by about 0.6% of the 2 full charged bodyshot breakpoint for plague monks/savages. Those are not meaningful breakpoints but rather annoying, as he basically just has to breathe on them once they get into melee (or unload an uncharged arrow) to finish them off.

Other than that I can’t complain about Huntsman as he is now. WoM did push me back into the arms of the repeater handgun and away from longbow though, hence why I think Empire LB could use a bit of love (but not too much).

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Totally agree. Not only Repeater gun has a better rate of fire, but also better breakpoints. With 20% infantry, 10% Skaven and 10% Chaos (the properties that you use if you want kill hordes with Longbow) Repgun can bodyshot every infantry that Longbow can kill, MORE GOR (Longbow can’t bodyshot it).

Totally agree again. I’m NOT saying that they need a nerf (rather, with this new meta, ranged careers are disadvantaged if compared with crowd control ones)… but if a more versatile weapon like Crossbow or Elf Longbow (and I have written in a previous post the reason) has also better breakpoints… there is a problem. Sure, Human Longbow is slightly better against hordes… but in Cataclysm, hordes often spawn directly on you; you haven’t always the time to shoot them. Moreover also Elf Longbow and Crossbow has a good damage toward hordes. IMHO this can’t be an enough tradeoff to compensate for the lack in his work (killing Specials).

True. It’s quite frustrating.

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I was reading the old patch notes for another reason, when I have seen this message directly from @Fatshark_Hedge note (evidently I had missed it):

I think Fatshark had done this change because, during beta, many ranged weapons were trash. It seems logic. Currently I don’t know if now they know this. If it’s intended or not. But also with this +20% damage boost, Human Longbow doesn’t reach any new breakpoint since beta. It’s the same “beta-Longbow”.

It’s more that they failed to make ranged weapons exempt from stagger system, along Smiter weapons and stabs https://i.imgur.com/X0QxF2H.jpg

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Once again, the bow is fine. Picture from FOW Cata.
What we can learn from this picture: BW is op as hell.
Taunt is incredibly strong. BH really good against boss, especially trolls. And hunstman with longbow is a killing machine.

Especially considering my poor HS accuracy…

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What do you mean? I guess you are saying that ranged weapons have been too nerfed with stagger system entry… right? In this case, I agree. In fact I haven’t understood because Fatshark has nerfed Enhanced Power talent. It was a good way to avoid this problem.

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Well, we have already talked about this, and everyone has his opinion, I haven’t problems with this… but (I don’t want be rude) scoreboard can’t a be a prove! it’s too influenced by players’ skill.

Scoreboard shows what I can do with my poor head shot accuracy, so it is quite on point actually

Sorry, I repeat that I don’t want to seem rude, but it’s totally false. We can do a good match with a bad career, as we can do a bad match with a good career. Moreover I’m not saying that Huntsman is trash. Obvly we can do, with him, good matches. I’m just saying that he’s overshadowed.

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Considering ranged weapons got 20% buff in damage while enemies got 24% on average buff to HP. Kinda execution of balance was kinda crap is what I’m saying.

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I haven’t used him in Cata, I’ll have to test… are breakpoints really out of reach for him? I’ve used him on legend with 10%x2 skaven and he body shots SV and all skaven specials. Even with no power VS chaos, he body shots everything but leeches. Ammo doesn’t seem to be an issue at all for him either. And with the spear he can control hordes pretty damn well too.

Sadly, yes :cry:

Currently, in Legend, every ranged weapon has better breakpoints (for example, Elf Longbow, can easily bodyshot Fire/Gatling; in 1.6 it could not), thanks to “every ranged weapon sets stagger to 1” and “Enhanced Power”.

But, in Cataclysm, Huntsman can easily bodyshot only Fire and Gatling rat. As written, he can bodyshot also Packmaster, but you must invest a huge amount of “power vs”; so you lose every ability toward crowd control (both ranged and melee). I think that Human Longbow is the weapon with the worst breakpoints.

Shot Crafter has been precious.

This was a succes run in Fow Cata. Unless you are so good to say it is “a” match, I m not. And in several failed attenpt, I had pretty much always half BW damage

He is the only one to be able to take hunter reliably.
He can proc it reliably, and then you one shot everything.

Honestly I haven’t understood well what you mean… Or maybe there was been a misunderstanding and you haven’t understood what I’m saying. That scoreboard just shows that it’s possible do a good match with Huntsman. I haven’t said that you can’t do that. You can still score g
ood results, but this doesn’t mean that he’s not overshadowed by other ranged careers.

Sure, but you need an headshot, while other ranged careers can just aim the body.

They do not achieve better results by aiming at the body. And empire bow is vastly superior against super armor and bosses.

And about the scoreboard: what it is meant to show is that you don’t need many headshot to make it work. And this results are consistent over all our tries to Fow.
And the BH in the picture has way more skill and ail than I have …

You say he is overshadowed by others but none of them has its ceiling, none of them get its survabity and while he is good everywhere, other ranged have to trade something to become excellent somewhere.

And a lot comes from hit ukt, which is doing way more thing than what his written:
-give amo
-give nonamo consomption
-give increased damages
-give invisibility
And on a very reasonable cooldown.

So please detail me your point. Because I can t see how he is overshadowed.

I m worried he get a buff, because the balance is good and he doesn’t need a lot to overshadow the other classes.

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I see, I’ll have to test that out. I’m using scrounger on Legend, tried him out last night. He already 1 shots nearly everything, 2 shots CWs with his ULT. He’s pretty impressive on legend anyway, I’ll have to take him into Cata today.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu