Bounty Hunter build variety discussion

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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I know he has a severe lack of build variation.

Builds so far:

  • Crossbows with Blessed Combat, is the obvious one
  • Griffon-Foot with Blessed Combat
  • BoP with Blessed Combat and ammo on Elites
  • Repeater Pistol + Prized Bounty, bit of a meme Chaos Warrior killing
  • Repeater Pistol + Blessed Combat

Also I’m kind of stuck.

With the ideas I have, Repeater Pistol will likely become quite insane for single target, and BoP. Close range Elite killing with headshots.

Griffon-Foots and Crossbows meta will probably always be Blessed Combat.

The only other thing you could do is to nerf Blessed Combat in terms of it’s benefits to shotgun type Weapons and make the AoE DPS it’s own build.

Ranged Weapon breakdowns:

  • Crossbow - Special Sniping (1shot bodyshots enjoyable) - low Cata+damgur
  • Volley Crossbow - Elite/Monster - struggles with ammo sustain/usefulness/lack of build variety
  • Repeater Pistol - Horde/Single tar - accuracy fails over range, spread too small for Hordes- struggles with ammo sustain/usefulness/lack of build variety
  • BoP - Single Target/Elite killing/Special killing - ammo sustain
  • Griffon-Foot - AoE, Open Wounds + Blessed Combat makes too strong

Comparison with his other Careers:

  • WPoS sturdy, CC, tank, Support

  • WHC slightly agile, versatile, melee clearing, AoE CC, Support, Elite killing

  • Zealot, melee clearing, high sustained damage

  • BH Boss killing, Elite killing, support, Special killing, burst

One way you could make him more unique is to give him more mobility, due to other Careers not having much. This should come in terms of a Movement Speed buff or Dodge Distance buff. It would compliment his playstyle well.

His description of being a heavily armoured bruiser wouldn’t fit this though. Increasing Push Stagger and Push-Attack → Heavy combos could fit the ‘brutal’ description better. Also pushes him to be in close range.

Balancing for each weapon:

  • Alternate fire can be used as a modifier to avoid making Griffon-Foot OP
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This is where I’m at.

Basically made the middle column of Talents all single target for BoP/Repeater/Volley Crossbow (could potentially work with Crossbow too).

High risk high reward gameplay, where you basically spam headshots in melee range.

Things to consider:
The thing that makes Blessed Combat so OP is that you can run Scrounger with it, while other choices on that row would lose you too much ammo. The Talents for being out of ammo on a Career that struggles for health too, and has to compete for Elite kills is a nightmare.

  • Possible ammo from Elite kills - single target Elite build
  • Possible 50% ammo back when a Boss dies
  • I did want to try to get the reload from kills in there too

Job Well Done:

  • Becomes BH third Passive
  • 2 Stacks from Elites instead of 1 OR Specials count too
  • Damage Reduction max lowered, as defensive THP Talents become available

Row 10:
Open Wounds is very supportive, so I wanted to balance a Support/Offensive Talent, which matches the playstyle, and possibly opens up normal Crossbow to do Handgun damage on headshots.

Main focus is to make the BoP/Repeater Pistol/Volley build rewarding.

Talent 1: Open Wounds

Talent 2: Kurnous’ Precision (placeholder)

Increase headshot damage by 50%. Lower non-headshot damage by 10%

  • Ranged Headshot damage only
  • Inspirational Shot attached to this Talent
  • Would prefer it to be Super Armour damage increase, so you can headshot Maulers in close range

Talent 3: Undecided

Row 20:

Talent 1: Blessed Combat + 1 shot can Pierce (This buffs normal Crossbow on higher difficulties, but stops other things becoming OP by limiting pierce to one shot/pellet/bolt)

  • Potentially nerf it for shotguns/Volley, so that the last column’s Talents can be for AoE

Talent 2: Every 6 seconds get Blessed Shots

  • Shooting an enemy with Blessed Shots gives you unlimited ammo for 2 seconds (duration should be based on 2 shots from BoP)- Killing an Elite or Special with a headshot(?) resets the timer
  • Damage from ‘Kurnous’ Precision’ needs to reflect kill timers and item stats

Talent 3: Undecided

Row 25:

Talent 1: Killing Specials increases your total max HP up to 150: x per stack.

  • Killing Specials also gives you 1 True HP (most BH use regen)
  • For Crossbow Special killing really

Talent 2: Ranged kills on Elites in close range give you 10-15 THP

  • You can’t compete with Melee Careers for kills for on-kill THP
  • This is for the BoP/Repeater Pistol/Volley Crossbow playstyles

Talent 3: undecided

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This one talent alone is doing a little too much. Based on design I’m assuming this talent was designed to support a hybrid playstyle of range and melee. The 2nd effect to instantly reset Blessed Shot is just bloat and unrelated. You can remove it and the talent is still one that offers an easy to access 15% power boost.

Based on the image of a bounty hunter and what hasn’t been done with Saltzpyre yet, I’ve considered the possibility of a high utility character that puts emphasis on having more tools in his inventory slot. Like a talent that lets Victor create flashbangs/smoke bombs he can switch to by pressing the bomb button an extra time. Or pressing potion slot an extra time for some other tool.

Or hell even a talent that converts his bombs into utility grenades that’s more about utility than damage. Like a smokebomb that disables enemy line of sight.

But that’s fanciful thinking.

You already mentioned it’s a placeholder already, but Kurnous would absolutely NOT be involved in any way whatsoever for Saltzpyre. Probably not even Taal.

That said I’m not sure how I feel about a talent that needs bodyshot to do more headshot damage. Just like Double-Shotted this sounds like a talent that’d be way too dependant on whether the BH is a host or not.

But overall I do agree with removing Steel Crescendo which frankly is such a limiting design to begin with, same with Salvaged Ammunition which didn’t need that 0 ammo requirement.

Rile the Mob is must toxic like all team movement speed buffs. I also like you have hp talents as that’s what BH needed.

I’d say his Level 30 Talent could use a look over too as currently Double-Shotted is far and away the only “right” choice. Indiscriminate Blast is awkward and overkill even in Cataclysm and Just Reward’s biggest perk isn’t even the cooldown reduction but that it’s the only talent that preserves both shot types.

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It might be too much but I honestly just want melee kill reset back to being base kit.

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The Talents on those rows would still suck though. :woman_shrugging:

I’ll see what I can come up with.

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I got a flu, but I’m better now so I’ll do more on this.

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On-Cleave and On-Stagger THP is just necessary.

You can’t even compete with bots on Elites for On-Kill THP.

Or headshot THP needs a buff. Headshots and ranged headshots PERHAPS?

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For On-Kill THP, I’ve thought of suggesting that you’d gain THP based on damage contribution IF you aren’t the killer.

For headshots and Crits…yeah I always wanted that. It’d still be inferior to Stagger, but I always assumed that was by design. That these careers are supposed to be more fragile

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Problem is that he’s the only one who is fragile. All other Ranged Careers either have access to Stagger-THP and Shields, or WS(health regen) and Pyro(THP ult/melee bonuses).

BH is left to struggle for both ammo and THP, and has only one Talent build worth using.

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said though.

On this I agree, but you’re going to face backlash, as the Crossbow build is most popular and quite fun, but doesn’t perform as well on Cata+, where the shotguns are just completely OP with that Talent.

It’s why I tried to add pierce and limit it to one pellet, to hold off shotguns becoming more broken.

Maybe even the Crit itself needs to be limited to one pellet or 3 (so that Volley Crossbow still wotks).

I would love to completely redo that Talent, but as I say it may face backlash, unless Bounty Hunters complete overhaul is unique and good.

It just comes down to how much they’re willing to do, and where our starting point for asking for changes begins. :slight_smile:

I agree with you on adding some utility btw. Bounty Hunter/WHC would have a lot of knowledge of different tactics and tools, to hunt different types of enemies, rather than just being raw damage.

I’d suggest a retuning in terms of Career Skill damage towards melee damage/defensive stats, and then add utility to his Career skill. E.g. Smokepowder arrow, heavy single target explosion + stagger, and a smoke cloud that blocks sightlines and blinds smaller enemies.

  • Caltrops bleed/slow
  • Traps
  • Nets (net gun?)
  • Slows

@Danielgafforio

A lot of cool ideas, some are a bit OP though. Some unique ideas too.

He does need ammo back somehow and build-specific Talents.

Bomb Talents have so far been a bit too strong on VT2, but you could probably get away with one of the Chaos Wastes bonuses.

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@GreenColoured @Danielgafforio

Complete overhaul:

Passive Ability: Ammo back on kills (Specials+1/Elites+1?/Bosses+50%), reload on Melee kills
Career Skill: Control large enemies, increasing damage dealt to them

Passives:

  • 50% Ammo
  • 15% reload Speed
  • Melee hits increase range damage, and Range hits increase melee damage
  • Enemies effected by your traps take 20% more damage from all sources
Talents
On-Cleave THP On-Stagger THP On-Special kill 1 True HP
I can’t think of anything to go here: 20% Power increase, but a big boglin bstrd appears, who must be defeated. You are a monster hunter after all. Headshot damage (ranged?) increase (super armour ARP) + Inspirational Shots 1 Stamina Shield + After Pushing, your next Heavy Attack gains 30% Attack Speed
Smiter Assassin Enhanced Power
[Trap] Every time you land a melee kill, your next shot is poisoned/causes bleed/blessed – Crossbow bodyshot breakpoints (would like to see +1 Pierce just for Crossbow too) - CAREFUL WITH GRIFFONFOOT DAMAGE(could use ALTERNATE FIRE to avoid this) +Another effect for melee possibly (heavy attack+?) [Trap] Every 6 seconds: ‘Silver bullets’ – shooting an Elite/Special enemy with a ranged weapon gives you unlimited ammo for 2 seconds – Headshots/ Elite kills/CLOSE RANGE kills extend this effect [Trap] STAGGER/CC Fire bolts/Explosive rounds ???Crititcal hits no longer deal increased damage, every third shot is automatically a Critical Hit, shots bleed/burn/cleave??? Something AoE for Volley/Griffonfoots/Repeater Pistol build
Increase MAX health per ‘x’ kills (up to 150), Special kills give 1 True HP Job Well Done 2x per kill or Specials count too [Trap] Every ‘x’ seconds Dodging leaves Caltrops on the ground, which slows enemies and causes them to bleed – bleed heals (Atharti’s Malice Damaging enemies with damage over time effects grants 0.25 health. )
[Trap] Net gun – Every 30 seconds fire a net gun, trapping enemies and causing X Your bombs/pots/x now do ??? [Trap] You leave a HUGE blessed trap on the floor, which traps large enemies for 5 seconds, and (consecrate the ground for a few seconds on impact. Players within the consecrated ground gain increased ‘x’) You now turn one bomb into 3 flash/smoke/bleed [Trap applied (means you can switch out from Shrapnel)] [Trap] Smokepowder Bomb – Saltz fires a shot that explodes on one enemy (dealing huge damage), but leaves a large smoke screen (blocking enemy sightlines and causing smaller enemies to be blinded) Headshot CDR

Please mix and match on bottom row. Could add: if enemy dies while trapped ‘x’ CD reduction.

Reasoning for a lot of this is to move away from Crits, which caused a lot of the build variation problems, due to not being able to land headshots reliably with all weapons.

  • Explosive Bolts is supposed to push players to use Scrounger and spam ranged with AoE weapons more

Defensive Talents can probably be tuned down with access to Cleave/Stagger THP.

Do smokepowder bomb in a way that leaves the smoke screen below Bosses mid sections.

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While I do like the concept of a special enemy, especially if it’s a pinata, it could be unwelcome for the other player’s if the BH’s decision to pick this skill spawns a new threat they have to deal with, even if the pay off is worth it. Also 20% is a bit much.

As an early talent for a shooty career, something more simple might be better. Like…

Quick Draw: 3x speed for weapon swapping and career skill. Can fire mid-action without interruption (drinking, throwing bombs, melee attacks, and rescuing)

I like the idea of a row dedicated to ammo types a lot, though I’m not a fan of how conditional they are. May be better if players could switch bullets with a button prompt, like pressing and holding weapon switch button.

And instead of modifying the shot of Victor’s ranged weapon which could cause a load of balance headaches, maybe instead it modified his Peacemaker. This would require a half-overhaul of his career skill though. The current high damage shot is his default and auto-generated one bullet on cooldown. Picking up X-amount of ammunition generates talent ammo for his Peacemaker that players can swap to.

While I like the idea of silver bullets for Victor, your suggested effect seems a bit unrelated.

Silver Bullet Fire a magic disrupting piercing bullet that damags and also detonates any Beastmen banner, Blightstormer vortex, and Lifeleech tether that comes into contact with the bullet. The specials that created them are stunned.

Also dispels Chaos Waste and Weaves objects where applicable.

Maybe just a weak explosive round that benefits from grenade trinkets?

Alternatively maybe a Flashbang that temporarily disable specials from teleporting and adds a 0.5 second delay to their attack?

[quote=“Kitten, post:11, topic:95325”] Final Row
[/quote]
These I object to as they all fundamentally change the Career skill into something far too different, and none of them preserves the base function of Locked and Loaded, even if they sound kind of cool.

Also I’m not sure if FS can pull off Net.

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Yeah, was going kind of out there with these for fun tbh. The crit ↔ kill on Blessed Shots in his real build makes changing anything else so stubborn. Blessed Shots in general is annoying to build around. It forces the same playstyle with every weapon. You can see what ideas are possible when you remove that though.

Some of it was nonsense, but the ‘traps’ (or w/e they would call it) idea I think is pretty good, and would easily replace having to use Open Wounds on everything. The defensive line is probably the most solid, as there’s the option for utility over defence, but they should 100% be nerfed if you get on-cleave THP.

I just tried to move the damage from his Career Skill line and move it to the middle of the Talent tree, but kept Crossbow combo (and added to it with possible heavy attack), and still kept the headshot Career Skill option, which are the two most popular builds for BH.

Also get that it’s a lot of new stuff.

On explosive rounds, yeah.

A small DoT/Stagger (that cowering on Darktide would be best), which can be tuned when we see how dumb it makes Griffonfoots. He should compete with some Sienna Careers, but not do like 40k more damage at the end of Cata+ (+ Row 10 should give him bonuses to melee, so he’s not completely f’d vs high elite density) .

Volley Crossbow is super fun to spam.

Repeater Pistol would be worst here, but the Talent I suggested in the middle would make it like an SMG, and make BoP fun too, which was the point.